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Bret Hart says that Triple H "isn't great" and that "he's never had a great match"
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<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xSNJX1aBDSw?hl=en_US&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xSNJX1aBDSw?hl=en_US&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object> Thoughts? |
*WRESTLE TALK ALERT*
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LOL love it! ahahahahaha honestly, I don't think Bret is right, HHH has had some great matches, but at least he's not afraid to say what he thinks.
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also, I love Bret and everything, I really do but I've never sat and watched a match of his in complete awe in the way I did for Triple H/Taker at Mania last year except maybe when he got fucked in Montreal and that certainly wasn't in the same context
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And before everyone starts whining... YES BRET SOUNDS BITTER. Get the fuck over it! It's who he is!
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I didn't actually think of WM13 in the 6 seconds I spent thinking of Bret matches. That said, outside of that shot of Austin and what it did for his career, I still think I prefer the cell match
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I agree and respect his opinion and courage in saying this. Triple H's lack of in-ring greatness paired with his IMO drab character led me to almost cut wrestling out completely for about 6-7 years. Sure Im not a HHH fan and this backs up my already solidified opinion but that Bret says this is pretty honest and intriguing. More interested in why he would say this and proceed to elaborate in such a detailed manner more than anything.
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Bret also thinks Flair wasn't very good. I'd guess because of how "technically efficient" he was, anybody that wasn't on the same level as him is simply no good. Trips and Flair might not be the best "wrestlers" under that definition but they're fucking great sports entertainers. Toeholds, wristlocks and chain wrestling don't sell PPV's and t-shirts.
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James Steele is going to hit the roof.
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Well, I've never looked at HHH as "one of the greats" so I guess I agree with Bret on that.
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Fuck me. James Steele is gonna go hunt down Da Hitman for this.
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I thought the cell match was the match of the year, for me anyway. Bret had his moments too, but one of the first (if not THE first) thing that comes to mind when I think Bret Hart is Montreal, not an actual match.
And Bret v Austin was ALWAYS worth seeing. Outside of that, I never truly found him "great" in the same light he views HHH. Hearing all this kinda makes me wonder: If HHH hadn't disappeared for so long with the torn quad, would he have been as big as he was? What I mean is that his return was one of the BIGGEST returns during that era, established lotsa hype and kinda renewed his character. Without that, would people have stuck around for him as long as they did? |
cant...stop...shaking...
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Bret needs to subscribe to "The Kevin Nash Outlook" on life
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Bret vs Owen at WM10 is also epic. Bret had a lot of fucking amazing matches. Him and HHH are two completely different performers.
Bret is a meat and potatoes type worker and HHH likes a lot more smoke and mirrors, but when it comes down to it HHH can work... just a different way to Bret. Honestly though if you put Bret in HHH's position to work some of the matches HHH got to work it'd be interesting to see what he did. Namely the 2000 streetfight with Cactus Jack. |
But as cliche as it is to say, as well as a lame pun, Bret is a heart and soul type of guy... which is why emotions get the better of him.
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Formulating my words as I calm down before I start unleashing every negative feeling I've ever felt in my life.
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im sure theres bitterness with bret and wwe
but saying hh hasnt had a great match is a stretch |
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Bret is probably upset that Triple H was the one who recommended they do the screwjob instead of working around the elephant in the room.
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that and there has to be a bit of "MHJ" or Majestic Hairline Jealousy on Bret's behalf
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Bret Hart is a better technical wrestler, but I feel that Triple H has done a far better job overall in his career of having matches that draw you in emotionally and hook you on a visceral level. Bret Hart matches usually impress you in their technical aspects. The only time Bret Hart could create a truly emotionally charged and soul engaging match was when he fought Owen, Bulldog, or Shawn Michaels. The Austin/Hart match at WM13 being the exception, and that is more due to Austin's storytelling than Bret's viciousness.
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visceral : http://ecwfrenchtribute.free.fr/HTLM...Frazier_04.jpgL
--- But on topic, I do not agree with Bret Hart in this particular situation. Triple H has put on some great shows, he wouldn't be as over with the fans if he didn't for such a long time. He's got the IT factor. |
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If he had meant by being "great" that Triple H was in the upper tier or all-time legends of the WWF/WWE, then he'd be right since Triple H isn't there nor is a lot of really good/great wrestlers. At the very least, he'd be in the next tier of those wrestlers who were good/great but were not the main guys of their era (pre-Attituide = Bret/HBK, Attitude = Rock/Stone Cold).
He's completely wrong about never doing anything great or having great matches since Triple H has had a lot of them. |
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Clearly some hairline jealousy going on here.
Edit: Fuck you for bringing this up already, CSL. |
Hahaha even the Canadian vanilla midget knows HHH sucks balls. Terrible wrestler. Shows where fucking the bosses daughter can take you.
Really though, without banging Steph HHH would be maybe a 2 time champion. He's very boring and nobody really cared when he "retired". That's why he's no more a great than Erik Watts. |
Get your gimmick straight, Gertie. If you are anti-vanilla midget, how can you be anti-HHH?
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No gimmick. I'm a straight shooter bro.
Wow, this thread has gotten more of a reaction than HHH's retirement speech. |
What we need now is a blog post by Owenbrown with his reactions to decide if HHH is indeed great or if Bret is bitter.
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Bret Hart is a bitter old man who is mad because he made a mistake by being a dick and quitting wwe and was wasted in wcw and never became half the star as hbk did and is only liked by online nerds
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In this interview Bret says:
"I look at [CM] Punk... I can look at certain wrestlers and I go, this guy is an innovator. Like a Rey Mysterio, who's done stuff that no one has ever thought of before. Punk has done stuff -- really unique moves and you go, 'gee I've never seen anything like that before.' They innovate all the time, and they create new sequences and moves and things. "Then you look at someone like Triple H. When I look at him -- he's always had a good look as far as his body went -- he always had a pretty muscular physique. But you look at someone like Hunter and you wonder, what has he really done. One move that he ever created that nobody ever saw before or some highspots or an idea for a match... He's mostly a guy that just showed up and they made him. He's always been a decent wrestler -- I would consider him a good wrestler and pretty talented. But great? I don't know, I don't think so. Listen. Bret Hart may be the best technical wrestler of all time. He may be the best at making wrestling look "real" without hurting his opponents (as he always says). But you look at Bret's career, and he didn't "innovate" much, and he certainly didn't creat new sequences and moves all the time. You look at most of Bret's matches, and he did the same moves. Superplex off the top rope. He and his opponent would come at each other and do a double clothesline where both would lay down while the referee counted, until one of the two would get up. Back breaker followed by the diving elbow off the 2nd rope. And sharpshooter. He'd incorporate a bulldog here and there, he'd dive to the outside sometimes, in 1997 he began doing the figure-four at the turnbuckle. But that was it. When you watch a Bret Hart match, you won't see too many "highspots". And if I may say so myself, Triple H has had more exciting matches than Bret did. For Bret, or anyone to say "What has Triple H really done?" is crazy, the man has a legacy. |
Bret Hart is boring, Triple H isn't.
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i mean is hhh great?! sure i believe so maybe he was made to an extent being with steff but dude can go and has always been enjoyable over the years.
do i think brets jealous of hhH?? no i believe he does think hhh is an inferior wrestler but its brets opinion to have |
I agree with Bret.
Could never get into HHH matches. The guy can be very funny in skits and does a good job as an authority figure but thats about it. He has had big matches and headlines Mania but so have a lot of other people. |
Bret is not jealous, I think he's just cocky/arrogant and very sure of his ability.
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He's had plenty of great matches. That's what you get when you feed the greatest talent of three eras to one mediocre wrestler.
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Neither is the WBC. |
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Bret calling somebody's matches predictable? Bitch is wrestle by numbers.
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We can romantisize or villify Bret's words, but in the end, Hunter was more of a guy who was able to make the best of everything he's been handed. Without Shawn, or The Kliq, or Steph, a freak injury, or possibly even Owen's death (if that whole "Owen was supposed to be The Game" thing has truth in it), he likely would have been one of those guys not able to catch a break... or get a push, and then just have it sort of trail off. I still am not fond of when he dominated the first and last 15 minutes or so of both RAW and Smackdown for weeks on end, but he more than likely would have been used (or unused) akin to someone like Zack Ryder is now. However, I think his stock would have gone up- that is to say, he would be viewed in a better light- if he wasn't around other people who were, for lack of a better term, freaks of nature. He's better than mediocre, but being constantly surrounded and outshone by guys like Austin or The Rock or Taker or even his own buddy Shawn... In short, he's more of an Arn Anderson than a Ric Flair. I don't mean that as a slight against either him or Arn, either. The same thing that Bret says about Hunter not having a match that stands out as memorable can also be turned around to not recalling any match of his that shit the bed... even back in his "Conneticut Blueblood" gimmick days. |
Bret is just upset that he isn't as awesome as the king of kings
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He was out for over half of 2001. Get your shit straight before you start spewing said shit out of mouth.
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He pretty much pulled a Hogan and made himself the focus of the show. WWF's era of pulling massive ratings ended shortly after.
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I do not have a bias for either guy...to get that out there first
#1 i would like Bret for once to tell everyone who he thinks a great wrestler is, aside from himself because he will always tell you how great he was. But who else does he find great?? #2 i assume what Bret means is that he likes guys who do more move sets, more improvisation in a match who let the wrestling manuevers paint the picture as opposed to the story, the interviews, the build etc.. because from an unbiased standpoint that is where Bret lacked. Bret matches were typically better in ring and HHH matches generally had better builds and lead ins and frankly had more of a payoff after the bell IMO #3 at some point havent Bret and HHH wrestled??and if so...wouldn't that kill Bret's claim that he could have a great match with anyone? |
1. Has hhh responded?
2. Wonder if we will see bret from time to time in wwe after this with hhh taking the reigns slowly over time.... |
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I hated the Michaels/HHH era DX. Unless they were intentionally trying to look/dress/act like the most annoying frat douchebags you've ever seen, then they were a right pair of weirdos. HHH going with Chyna before settling down with a beard in SMH makes sense if the whole DX thing was for him to act as gay as possible in public without ever having to come out.
Still, I enjoyed a lot of his more serious turn in 2000. It was his return to participate in the absolute shitting over the Undisputed Championship in 2002 that put me off him. |
HHH/Taker 1 and Brock/HHH were pretty damn great.
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i never liked ether one i think they both are over-raited. i think i have more respect for trips though bret bitches too much.
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I never thought of Triple H as an amazing wrestler either but there is no question how much of a draw he was and his ability to entertain a crowd, especially on the mic. Bret Hart was definitely more technically sound but as an overall package, I'd rather watch a Triple H match over a Bret Hart match any day.
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After thinking about it I feel that if anybody was going to make those remarks only a select few people could get away with it with any credibility. Hart being one of them.
I still don't know to what level I agree with him, though. |
I see some feel this way but I never felt HHH was that big of a draw. I thought he was good for the hardcore fan (as was Bret and HBK) but he never reached casual fans like Hogan, Rock, SCSA and UT, who drew in more crowds, more ratings and were actually drawing money and attention. I suppose HHH and Bret are just different sides of the same coin in the respect. Bret was better in ring, HHH better on mic and storytelling, and both boring in their own ways.
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This is just stupid. Bret's lost his mind.
- Triple H vs Austin at No Way Out 2002 (3 Stages of Hell) - Triple H vs Chris Benoit at No Mercy 2000 - Triple H vs Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 2002 (Street Fight) - Triple H vs The Rock at Judgment Day 2000 (Iron Man) Just to name a few off the top of my head. |
HHH vs Shawn 02'-04' rivalry had so many good matches alone. HITC, Last man standing, street fights etc..
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My bad. I meant to say the Mcmahon Helmsley era is that pinpoint enough for you? |
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He invented standing up to get out of the crippler crossface.
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Iron Man is hardly a gimmick in the same way the other 2 are. A compelling Iron Man match is harder to pull off than a non-gimmicked match if anything. It was also better than the Bret/Shawn Iron Man, which is saying something given that included Michaels as one of the wrestlers
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The Rock-HHH iron man match was not that good.
Even though HHH single-handedly made The Rock in it. |
it was still better than HBK/Bret
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You're being silly.
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how exactly? Two of the greatest workers of all time, one being the greatest of all time doesn't guarantee excellence. How long has it been since you even watched the match? I love Bret and I worship Shawn/I like them both more than Triple H but other than it being "an impressive feat", the WrestleMania XII Iron Man match outside of the last minute and the overtime period simply wasn't all that good. Notice how none of the other Iron Man matches after it ever finished 1-0?
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Mediocre. I admit that he got further than his talent should allow, but that's not saying much considering the damage he did to the show even as just a performer. People may not remember his bad matches, but that's because people predominantly tuned out during his matches. Personally, I'd say " change the channel heat" is the worst kind. Unless you're a smark, in which even turning off the set proves how good a heel you are...Even when you're a face. Quote:
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Now if only James Steele can dial up his Triple H phone and beg him to come back and bury Heath Slater. :shifty:
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I watched the video when Bret says all this, and you can tell he still hasn't gotten over the whole Montreal issue.
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I don't consider Triple H to be a "bad wrestler" in any way but his time at the top when he was doing the 20 minute monologues to open Raw every week and beating all the babyfaces no matter what actually made me stop watching wrestling for a few years. I don't know if it's more him or the way he was booked, but at his peak I had absolutely no desire to watch.
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Foley and Stone Cold have the strongest claims to having made or help made The Rock. |
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http://books.google.com/books?id=Wb9...stling&f=false |
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Though the ending was quite Russo-esque.
And it's not like having a pretty good idea of who's coming out on top hampers the match. See: The Undertaker having classic matches with predictable outcomes four years straight. It was a culmination. Like Austin over HBK. Like Hogan in the 80's/90's. Like a ton of classic matches. And like I said, I'll take the story of two guys looking like they are absolutely incapable of being pinned or made to submit for an hour to two top guys getting pinned at the first sign of a power move every five minutes. The journey was better with HBK and Bret. The clusterfuck ending didn't exactly save it. |
clusterfucks are the best when done properly, which WWE has always been pretty spot on with, it doesn't have to be Russo-esque as long as it makes sense, flows, is timed right. WWE's clusterfucks are usually controlled chaos meant to build and build until the payoff, a Russo clusterfuck is throwing a bunch of surprises at you simply for the sake of trying to surprise you. And no it absolutely doesn't hamper when you know who's going over quite a lot of the time but I just don't think the match was strong enough to cover that, like there was more focus on "look at what these guys are doing, what athletes!" and forgot a bit about making it exciting. I completely understand the HBK/Bret story and what they were telling and I'm sure they could probably have even torn the house down under the exact same circumstances on another occasion. But 12 just didn't really click for me in a "wow this is really fucking good" kind of way.
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and believe me, I want it to. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart in the main event of WrestleMania for an hour should be the greatest professional wrestling match of all time.
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The ending of the WM12 Bret/Shawn Ironman Match definitely "devalues" the match itself, somewhat.
But it was very good. |
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HHH was probably a huge asshole to Bret in past. Bret is a better wrestler, but HHH has had great matches.
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I assume Triple H just liked having a road partner in multiple aspects. Triple H had the title for 1 fucking month before he dropped it to Hogan. How in the fuck did he shit on the belt? Or are you bitching about he single handedly legitimized a new world title and made it the premier title in the WWE in less than a year? |
Triple H was far more entertaining and drew more money than Bret ever dreamed of. Bret was technically a better wrestler, but so were Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero and a whole host of other guys who aren't in Triple H's league. Bret has always been the biggest mark in the business and it's not surprising he's relegating himself to making snide remarks to try to keep himself relevant. I really don't dislike Bret either, but really, it's been over 15 years since the "screw job", stop throwing a fucking temper tantrum.
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I don't know if I agree with Road Warrior but I like the cut of his jib
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I like the cut of Juan's jib.
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I like the cut of your <s>cock</s> jib.
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<s>My cock is uncut</s> Thank you.
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<s>disgusting feature on a man</s> You're welcome.
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This thread has given me a very firm erection. My cock could go DH for the New York Yankees right now.
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