DISCUSSION - Triple H haters: How do you explain Cena and Batista being put overly cleanly?
 

DISCUSSION - Triple H haters: How do you explain Cena and Batista being put overly cleanly?

Here is my best argument from a Pro-Triple H stance:

If a wrestler is almost a "sure thing" to become the next 'Franchise Guy' for the WWE, Triple H will do the clean JOB to the guy to get him over. Period.

Triple H jobbed cleanly to Cena in 2006 at Wrestlemania, and flat out tasted Dave Batista's penis on 3 different occasions in 2005.........one of which, was at Wrestlemania 21.

In recent memory, Brock Lesnar got the better of Triple H in their feud (Lesnar won 2 of 3 matches I believe).

While it's true that guys like Angle, Jericho, RVD, Orton, Booker T, Edge, and even Benoit (ultimately), and a long host of other wrestlers were unable to ultimately 'go over' Triple H to the point of ascending to that "next level" on a permanent basis, ask yourself this:

"Would any of the guys that Triple H supposedly buried...........would they have been true "Franchise Guys" in the manner that Bruno Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, The Rock, and John Cena were?


Pro-Triple H Stance Conclusion:

Triple H will put over guys that have a legit shot of being the next "Franchise Guy" in the WWE. As a result, Triple H is a guy that puts the business ahead of himself. By being so selective in who he JOBS to, it ultimately magnifies the effect of he does ultimately JOB to.

In those rare instances where Triple H does JOB..........it means something. Huge.

For this reason, I ultimately do think that Trips will do the right thing for business and allow for Daniel Bryan to ultimately 'get over' to the next level at some point.

I am a Triple H fan and I believe he is simply what is best for business. I am 25% to blame for James Steele continuing his Triple H gimmick. I fed him the rep needed to get to the top and stuff.

You'd get a little history of Triple H in his new DVD streaming on Netflix

While I do think Triple H has done a number of questionable things throughout his career, no one can deny the fact that he helped two potential 'franchise guys' in Cena and Batista go to that next level.

Triple H tapped out clean to Benoit at Mania as well. Granted - Benoit was pretty much buried after Wrestlemania, but Benoit was never going to be a legit long term franchise guy for the company anyways. Period.

Triple H added to Undertaker's already impressive legacy.

Three guys who I think Triple H could've done a better job with were the following:

-RVD
-Randy Orton
-Chris Jericho

However - in two of those cases (RVD and Orton), they proved to be unworthy at the time through their actions. RVD was busted with marijuana possession shortly after winning his World title, while Orton in 2004 was a complete douche backstage (and even in 2009 when a Legacy-lead Orton jobbed to Hunter at Mania).

The only ONE time where I felt Triple H let the WWE down, was in his dealings with Chris Jericho. Face Jericho going over Triple H in 2000 during that 'title win that never happened' match would have done wonders for Jericho.

RVD pissed me off when he got in trouble, I was so proud of him getting a chance, but I always wonder if Sabu's push got stopped cause I thought he was doing on the new ECW shit

RVD shouldn't have pissed you off. It's not like he just started smoking weed after he won the title.

He-man, did you mention Angle in the first post? Angle definitely could have been THE man. They feuded over Stephanie's affection or something, right?

Add Sheamus to the list of people who HHH should have handled better.

Heres the problem with HHH....he will put Cena and Bats over only because they were the Franchise guys like you said. But anyone else he will bury to keep himself as a threat or at the top.

There is no reason a retired HHH should be going over the recent champ in Punk, or Lesnar who is being pushed as the Baddest guy on the roster, etc. He is "retired" but still pushes himself as the ultimate ass kicker that no one can beat.

Thats the CURRENT issue I have with him. Historically I think you can make a case that he put a few guys over, but Cena was ALREADY the top guy no thanks to him, but he did make Bats.

The guy also insists on inserting himself into a "main event" as Wrestlemania.

The Undertakers one match a year with the streak is a huge deal, but HHH pushes himself to that level as if anyone NEEDs to see him.

In regards to RVD, I don't think the WWE wanted their top guy to be known as someone that was pro-weed and what have you (although I concede the fact that it's quite hypocritical when guys like Hogan back in the day were 'franchise guys' and were avid roid monkeys).

RVD was way over when he first came here, but he was a fairly sloppy worker.......and did have a questionable character I guess.

As far as Kurt Angle goes, The Angle-HHH-Steph storyline actually did get Angle over big time, but I don't think the WWE felt comfortable in having Hunter converting into a face for the long term at the time............since Hunter was such a tremendous heel at the time. If you had HHH go face, he would've been behind Austin and The Rock.

As far as Kurt Angle goes - I actually think he could've been HUGE had the WWE kept him as a tweener throughout his career. The downfall of Kurt Angle, is that he was so awesome at being a heel, that the WWE always tried to then turn him face and would always tinker with his character too much as a face.

Angle as a tweener could've been a 'Franchise Guy'.........Triple H supported or not.

What do you think of this statement Heyman

While Hhh doesn't always devalue or hold down and bury his foes, he certainly uses others to elevate himself

Good point about Cena. However - a clean victory over Triple H still helped Cena establish even more credibility.

I completely agree with you on Punk.

Regarding Lesnar however - if it's in the WWE's long term plan to have Triple H still do meaningful jobs every now and then, then it doesn't make sense to have Triple H get completely squashed by Lesnar. Lesnar ultimately went over Hunter, but Triple H still has strong credibility as a result of him winning one of those matches.

p.s._______The above criticism by the way, can also be directed towards The Rock. "Retired" Rocky was able to defeat Cena and Punk. However - this ultimately lead to a 'credible' Rocky jobbing cleanly to Cena.

Fair point on the rock.

I just don't think hhh needs to establish anything. Beating Lesnar does nothing for him. But yet we still see him go over at wrestlemania then both go their way. Should Bryan beat him the push will be nothing about beating the guy that beat Lesnar but being beating the guy holding him down

If hhh truly cared about putting the right guys over he wouldn't have beaten punk while punk was the top face in the company. If punk wins there and then takes the title from del rio it would have done far more for him and been his big win in a weak run including his title run. Instead he loses, wins the title and doesn't main event and takes a 2nd fiddle to hhh vs lesnar

Also I find it funny that when hhh is in a title match it goes on last even over hogan rock but punk holds the title and hhh will go after him

Concerning RVD, what I originally said was directed at whoever said they were pissed at RVD for getting busted. I could personally give a shit if a wrestler smokes weed.

Definitely a solid statement, and one that has a lot of truth to it.

However - I would also argue that Triple H worked his butt off to put himself in that position. During the Attitude Era, yes...........he was always "the guy" working with Austin and Rocky, but the WWE chose him to be in that spot for pretty good reasons.

Triple H obviously used the Kliq when he first entered the WWE so that he'd have friends in high places.

Triple H worked his butt off, acted shrewdly backstage, and the WWE ultimately gave him the keys.............for better or for worse.

Seriously hhh lobbied to go on last because of the title at the biggest show of the year


2nd biggest he goes on last over punk cena big show

I completely agree with about Punk.

CM Punk was hot shit back in 2011 and that is definitely one instance where Triple H should have done the JOB.

Also, whoever said that Cena was made before Triple H jobbed to him, I'm going to have to disagree. Triple H matches at that time had the same aura that Cena matches do now. You just KNEW Triple H was going to win. When he didn't, you knew something big was happening. Just like Cena now.

I think hhh takes more shit than he should from fans but he also deserves some level of shit.

I just think of his peers and it seems like he's done less to leave a good business than others which is ironic since he now runs the company.

Just imagine hhh taking a triple power bomb from the shield and disappearing. I can't either. But taker does it. And he's a rung above hhh

I dunno cena was champ for a year at that point...

Cena went over jbl Jericho and angle and was champ a year...he was already the face of the company....but sure the hhh match was the icing on the cake

The Triple H match SOLIDIFIED it.

Even though Cena had done all of that, everybody I watched that show with was pretty shocked when Cena won.

And that was pretty much the last time we'd ever be shocked by a Cena win again...besides arguably HBK at 23.

I dunno I felt different. I felt like super cena would win that and I haven't been shocked by a loss since. His few losses have been star making. Edge, Bryan, punk.

You could argue del rio as well.

Del Rio beat Cena?

Who in their right mind would have been picking HBK to win that match??

HBK was a replacement for HHH who got his quad broken a month before the PPV. I hope nobody if they remembered that.

Awesome, so 2 rights fix 1000 wrongs

You could argue its a chicken/egg type situation.

HHH doesn't put over the guys that he thinks won't be franchise players.

Or

HHH doesn't put them over so they don't become franchise players.

Yes. Del rio took punks title then beat cena in a 3 way and also in a last man standing match then cena left he title scene to work with the rock.

So to the point of the thread, cena puts more people over more often when it makes sense. Also while he's a much bigger name and star than hhh. Cena has been the face of the company for 10 years and beating him means far more than hhh.

Until he beats Taker at Mania.

Well yes, obviously it does NOW. I was just saying that Cena became MADE with the Triple H victory. Like, FOR REAL made. Basically going from Randy Orton level to...well, John Cena level.

The Heartbreak Kid doesn't lay down for anybody.

Also quite possible.

I think Cena was extremely over before HHH. Cena was already made, and you guys are overstating HHH's impact on Cena's career.

I remember the feeling around Mania 22 was that a lot of people wanted Triple H to win to break up the monotony of Cena's title run, with Cena being booed out of a lot of buildings.

JR on commentary made it seem like the Chicago crowd was full of Nick Bockwinkles

I remember the feeling around Mania 22 was that a lot of people wanted Triple H to win to break up the monotony of Cena's title run, with Cena being booed out of a lot of buildings.

JR on commentary made it seem like the Chicago crowd was full of Nick Bockwinkles

To be honest I forgot this match even happened in the main event of mania until it was brought up in this thread. I thought it was much later and was not memorable

He's still a twat regardless.

It was memorable as fuck.

I don't remember the match, but I remember months before Cena feuded with Angle and Cena was constantly booed.

HHH blamed the booing of Cena on Angle being a poor heel. Then HHH showed us how to be a great heel and Cena still got booed out of the building.

To be fair, he did come out dressed as Conan the Barbarian, ultimate heel?

Exactly.

Pretty much what Gertner says. Every so often he'll put someone over, but it always seems so pointless with all the guys he's buried, with his never ending need to be over as some ultimate ass kicker. I never think it's a big deal when he does anything, he is tired and old.

In saying that, he's definitely had some great moments in his career, but he has killed the momentum of a lot of guys that were fun to that point, where he put the kiss of death on them.

Right. From being booed to being BOOED OUT OF THE BUILDING.

The final push.

Maybe Orton would be on the same level as Cena if HHH hadnt cut him down so many times.

But seriously Cena went from getting booed against Angle and Jericho to Booed against HHH to booed against Edge and RVD and so on.

HHH literally had zero impact on any of that. I think you are applying your own shock to everyone's opinion when I think more people would agree the match wasnt a big deal or memorable. In fact I think his match with HBK (HHH fill in as mentioned) did way more for him because it showed how great Cena can be in the ring with the right people.

It isn't that Triple H is a horrible guy (he seems to be based on everything I've seen, but that isn't what i don't like him), he just has an outlook on the business that I don't agree with. It doesn't help that he was an asshole that scraped and clawed his way to the top and fucked people over when hew as on top, but plenty before him had the same mentality. Triple H, like many others, have a perspective that puts people towards the top that look and seem a certain way. Triple H put over guys like Batista, John Cena, Brock Lesnar, and Sheamus, yeah. What do you suppose all of these guys have in common? Big hulking ridiculous looking people that are overflowing with testosterone. When it comes to guys like Punk, RVD, Bryan, Christian, Jericho... They don't fit the mold of what he views a champion should look like, so he constantly does everything in his power to protect a view of the business that is stale, antiquated, and completely bias. Even Benoit, Triple H put him over at Wrestlemania (in a triple threat match) but immediately started planting seeds for "his boy" Orton afterwards. Orton gets the belt and mysteriously what happens a month later? Orton "wasn't ready" and Triple H has the belt again.

I could talk about how shitty of a guy he is in terms of power, but mainly I hate his view of what the business should be and what the business should look like. He's one of e last guys holding on to that perspective and it is really a poison that is holding the entire history back.

It wasn't just me.

Maybe Orton would be bigger if HHH had put him over. Sure.

Speaking of 23, I fucking love that match. It feels like a lot of people shit on it here, though. No clue why.

Regardless, Cena was already MADE by then. And Triple H did it. I think you're letting your hatred for Triple H think here. None of those people that he was getting booed against were even legitimate stars yet, really. I love Jericho, but no. Edge is OK, but no. A case could MAYBE be made for Kurt Angle, but not even. Triple H was THAT DUDE to beat to cross the threshold, not just from a smark perspective, but in the eyes of EVERYONE that watches WWE.

Look, I'm not a Triple H fan. I never really have been. I remember what I saw, though.

RVD didn't piss me off but he did disappoint me. I thought he'd know better than to be in possession of weed in his car. As for Sabu, him being with Rob certainly didn't do him any favors, but he ultimately contributed to his own demise in WWE(CW) by constantly showing up late to events and having various behavioral problems.

HHH is correct in the regard with once in a liftime exceptions, wrestlers shouldn't look like fucking gas station attendants and fuck cares about workrate.

Yeah. And every woman should have triple D tits and look like Trish Stratus. Right?

In a dream world yes.

You are part of the problem, it seems.

Only Narc would bitch about that.

Hey. Chauvinism. Let's party.

Don't get pissed at RVD for smoking weed. Get pissed at the government for imposing a 90+ year prohibition on it.

Narc must prefer the Tuesday afternoon squad at the strip club.

OF course the sex objects of a medium targeted at males should be attractive.

Fuck yeah good point. And we shouldnt be mad at Benoit, be mad at the societal aversion to murder.

I'm not really arguing that they should be attractive.

yeah that's definitely a legit comparison

No, the majority. And I'd rather have Maryse than Trish. That accent!

The basis is he same. To be mad at the law and not the person who broke it is silly and stupid. Not comparing the acts.

I feel that as an outstanding poster and general pillar of the wider community the following statement from Brigstocke should be taken as Gospel.

HHH is an absolute Cunt. Yes its got a capital 'C' to place emphasis on the sheer magnitude of his overall Cuntdom.

He does have a glorious back though :-/

Your mother is an absolute Cunt with a capital C.

IT'S TIME TO PLAY THE GAME

This is a great point and one that I would agree with.

Here is one thing I'd have to ask though.

If Triple H and Vince McMahon do not like "smaller guys" like Daniel Bryan at all costs, and do not have any intention of pushing Bryan as a World Champion long term, then why would they have him go CLEANLY over John Cena at Summerslam?.............one on one to boot!

HHH always makes Orton look like a bitch... like even with this story line right now.

I dont buy that they dont like small guys. Hbk is one of their all time closest wrestlers. I tend to agree with their views on size in regards to the supposed heavyweight champion . They push the right smaller guys.

But hhh would never put one over himself. Hes too bad ass to lose to a skinny fat punk.

Cena is mich better with letting his ego not get in the way

HBK got a push because Vince was afraid of going to jail for steroids. He was also a shit draw as was Bret.

Oh Jesus can anyone say anything about hbk without gertner chiming in With that shit.

Whatever. He made a ton of money till the end and was always pushed. His size never held him back with Vince.

If you're making a porn and you wanna make money, you should probably choose to have it feature chicks who look more like Trish Stratus and less like Nicole Bass.

If you're making a wrestling organization and you want to make money, you should probably choose to have it star guys who look more like Hogan/Cena than guys who look like they were signed straight from a Bum Fights video.

I dunno about that. The only guy getting a push that was smaller tHan michaels was Owen. Look at mid 96.

Taker, gold dust, Ahmed, farooq, vader, Kane, rock, Kama, crush, doa, etc all bigger guys.

Hbk was never really that small. Dude was 6'1 he dwarfs punk and Bryan. But he was the small guy in his era and it didn't stop him.

HBK whined and cried until he got his belt and whined and cried once he got it. He's the Honky Tonk Man of WWF champions.

He also whined and cried after those 30 Marines collectively jumped him for no reason whatsoever while Davey Boy and XPac were doing lines off of his beaten body.

No dude. Stop.

Jaywalking is illegal, and if you do it, you are as stupid as a murderer because it is illegal. No. Even weed is legal in some places now.

If I shoplift a can of Pepsi I might aswell Rape Homicide the minge off of some chavvy slag from the local estate?

Yeah, you got it.

Hanso, how are you so dumb sometimes? Like how? Could you write it out for me or provide a diagram?

Yeah Hanso. Make Tubby a Pie Chart.

NOW

Maybe you mofos should learn to read, or maybe read what I actual posted instead of piling on because Thrilla disagreed.

Go back to my first post when I actually mentioned Murder.

Did I say Smoking weed = Murder? Oooopps, nope.

I was responding to idiot Bobbo saying to blame the government for weed being illegal instead of the person who broke the law. Therefore In murder, jaywalking etc its not the act thats wrong, its the law.

Maybe you can draw me a venn diagram of all the dicks in the world that are circumcised on one side, and all in the world that are not on the other, then the intersection and overlap of all the dicks you have gobbled down like a starving dog in the middle.

Go back and read what I said.

I'd love to, but I'm far too busy at the moment.

I love it when people No Sell finishers.

ABT, you use the other drinking fountain. It's the law.

:rofl: