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Old 02-15-2014, 11:00 PM   #1
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DISCUSSION - Triple H haters: How do you explain Cena and Batista being put overly cleanly?
DISCUSSION - Triple H haters: How do you explain Cena and Batista being put overly cleanly?

Here is my best argument from a Pro-Triple H stance:

If a wrestler is almost a "sure thing" to become the next 'Franchise Guy' for the WWE, Triple H will do the clean JOB to the guy to get him over. Period.

Triple H jobbed cleanly to Cena in 2006 at Wrestlemania, and flat out tasted Dave Batista's penis on 3 different occasions in 2005.........one of which, was at Wrestlemania 21.

In recent memory, Brock Lesnar got the better of Triple H in their feud (Lesnar won 2 of 3 matches I believe).

While it's true that guys like Angle, Jericho, RVD, Orton, Booker T, Edge, and even Benoit (ultimately), and a long host of other wrestlers were unable to ultimately 'go over' Triple H to the point of ascending to that "next level" on a permanent basis, ask yourself this:

"Would any of the guys that Triple H supposedly buried...........would they have been true "Franchise Guys" in the manner that Bruno Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, The Rock, and John Cena were?


Pro-Triple H Stance Conclusion:

Triple H will put over guys that have a legit shot of being the next "Franchise Guy" in the WWE. As a result, Triple H is a guy that puts the business ahead of himself. By being so selective in who he JOBS to, it ultimately magnifies the effect of he does ultimately JOB to.

In those rare instances where Triple H does JOB..........it means something. Huge.

For this reason, I ultimately do think that Trips will do the right thing for business and allow for Daniel Bryan to ultimately 'get over' to the next level at some point.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:06 PM   #2
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I am a Triple H fan and I believe he is simply what is best for business. I am 25% to blame for James Steele continuing his Triple H gimmick. I fed him the rep needed to get to the top and stuff.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:10 PM   #3
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You'd get a little history of Triple H in his new DVD streaming on Netflix
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:15 PM   #4
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I am a Triple H fan and I believe he is simply what is best for business. I am 25% to blame for James Steele continuing his Triple H gimmick. I fed him the rep needed to get to the top and stuff.
While I do think Triple H has done a number of questionable things throughout his career, no one can deny the fact that he helped two potential 'franchise guys' in Cena and Batista go to that next level.

Triple H tapped out clean to Benoit at Mania as well. Granted - Benoit was pretty much buried after Wrestlemania, but Benoit was never going to be a legit long term franchise guy for the company anyways. Period.

Triple H added to Undertaker's already impressive legacy.

Three guys who I think Triple H could've done a better job with were the following:

-RVD
-Randy Orton
-Chris Jericho

However - in two of those cases (RVD and Orton), they proved to be unworthy at the time through their actions. RVD was busted with marijuana possession shortly after winning his World title, while Orton in 2004 was a complete douche backstage (and even in 2009 when a Legacy-lead Orton jobbed to Hunter at Mania).

The only ONE time where I felt Triple H let the WWE down, was in his dealings with Chris Jericho. Face Jericho going over Triple H in 2000 during that 'title win that never happened' match would have done wonders for Jericho.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:20 PM   #5
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RVD pissed me off when he got in trouble, I was so proud of him getting a chance, but I always wonder if Sabu's push got stopped cause I thought he was doing on the new ECW shit
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:24 PM   #6
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RVD shouldn't have pissed you off. It's not like he just started smoking weed after he won the title.

He-man, did you mention Angle in the first post? Angle definitely could have been THE man. They feuded over Stephanie's affection or something, right?
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:37 PM   #7
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Add Sheamus to the list of people who HHH should have handled better.

Heres the problem with HHH....he will put Cena and Bats over only because they were the Franchise guys like you said. But anyone else he will bury to keep himself as a threat or at the top.

There is no reason a retired HHH should be going over the recent champ in Punk, or Lesnar who is being pushed as the Baddest guy on the roster, etc. He is "retired" but still pushes himself as the ultimate ass kicker that no one can beat.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:37 PM   #8
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Thats the CURRENT issue I have with him. Historically I think you can make a case that he put a few guys over, but Cena was ALREADY the top guy no thanks to him, but he did make Bats.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:38 PM   #9
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The guy also insists on inserting himself into a "main event" as Wrestlemania.

The Undertakers one match a year with the streak is a huge deal, but HHH pushes himself to that level as if anyone NEEDs to see him.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
RVD shouldn't have pissed you off. It's not like he just started smoking weed after he won the title.

He-man, did you mention Angle in the first post? Angle definitely could have been THE man. They feuded over Stephanie's affection or something, right?
In regards to RVD, I don't think the WWE wanted their top guy to be known as someone that was pro-weed and what have you (although I concede the fact that it's quite hypocritical when guys like Hogan back in the day were 'franchise guys' and were avid roid monkeys).

RVD was way over when he first came here, but he was a fairly sloppy worker.......and did have a questionable character I guess.

As far as Kurt Angle goes, The Angle-HHH-Steph storyline actually did get Angle over big time, but I don't think the WWE felt comfortable in having Hunter converting into a face for the long term at the time............since Hunter was such a tremendous heel at the time. If you had HHH go face, he would've been behind Austin and The Rock.

As far as Kurt Angle goes - I actually think he could've been HUGE had the WWE kept him as a tweener throughout his career. The downfall of Kurt Angle, is that he was so awesome at being a heel, that the WWE always tried to then turn him face and would always tinker with his character too much as a face.

Angle as a tweener could've been a 'Franchise Guy'.........Triple H supported or not.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:44 PM   #11
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What do you think of this statement Heyman

While Hhh doesn't always devalue or hold down and bury his foes, he certainly uses others to elevate himself
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso View Post
Add Sheamus to the list of people who HHH should have handled better.

Heres the problem with HHH....he will put Cena and Bats over only because they were the Franchise guys like you said. But anyone else he will bury to keep himself as a threat or at the top.
Good point about Cena. However - a clean victory over Triple H still helped Cena establish even more credibility.

Quote:
There is no reason a retired HHH should be going over the recent champ in Punk, or Lesnar who is being pushed as the Baddest guy on the roster, etc. He is "retired" but still pushes himself as the ultimate ass kicker that no one can beat.
I completely agree with you on Punk.

Regarding Lesnar however - if it's in the WWE's long term plan to have Triple H still do meaningful jobs every now and then, then it doesn't make sense to have Triple H get completely squashed by Lesnar. Lesnar ultimately went over Hunter, but Triple H still has strong credibility as a result of him winning one of those matches.

p.s._______The above criticism by the way, can also be directed towards The Rock. "Retired" Rocky was able to defeat Cena and Punk. However - this ultimately lead to a 'credible' Rocky jobbing cleanly to Cena.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:49 PM   #13
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Fair point on the rock.

I just don't think hhh needs to establish anything. Beating Lesnar does nothing for him. But yet we still see him go over at wrestlemania then both go their way. Should Bryan beat him the push will be nothing about beating the guy that beat Lesnar but being beating the guy holding him down
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:52 PM   #14
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If hhh truly cared about putting the right guys over he wouldn't have beaten punk while punk was the top face in the company. If punk wins there and then takes the title from del rio it would have done far more for him and been his big win in a weak run including his title run. Instead he loses, wins the title and doesn't main event and takes a 2nd fiddle to hhh vs lesnar

Also I find it funny that when hhh is in a title match it goes on last even over hogan rock but punk holds the title and hhh will go after him
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by He-Man View Post
In regards to RVD, I don't think the WWE wanted their top guy to be known as someone that was pro-weed and what have you (although I concede the fact that it's quite hypocritical when guys like Hogan back in the day were 'franchise guys' and were avid roid monkeys).

RVD was way over when he first came here, but he was a fairly sloppy worker.......and did have a questionable character I guess.

As far as Kurt Angle goes, The Angle-HHH-Steph storyline actually did get Angle over big time, but I don't think the WWE felt comfortable in having Hunter converting into a face for the long term at the time............since Hunter was such a tremendous heel at the time. If you had HHH go face, he would've been behind Austin and The Rock.

As far as Kurt Angle goes - I actually think he could've been HUGE had the WWE kept him as a tweener throughout his career. The downfall of Kurt Angle, is that he was so awesome at being a heel, that the WWE always tried to then turn him face and would always tinker with his character too much as a face.

Angle as a tweener could've been a 'Franchise Guy'.........Triple H supported or not.
Concerning RVD, what I originally said was directed at whoever said they were pissed at RVD for getting busted. I could personally give a shit if a wrestler smokes weed.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
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What do you think of this statement Heyman

While Hhh doesn't always devalue or hold down and bury his foes, he certainly uses others to elevate himself
Definitely a solid statement, and one that has a lot of truth to it.

However - I would also argue that Triple H worked his butt off to put himself in that position. During the Attitude Era, yes...........he was always "the guy" working with Austin and Rocky, but the WWE chose him to be in that spot for pretty good reasons.

Triple H obviously used the Kliq when he first entered the WWE so that he'd have friends in high places.

Triple H worked his butt off, acted shrewdly backstage, and the WWE ultimately gave him the keys.............for better or for worse.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:54 PM   #17
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Seriously hhh lobbied to go on last because of the title at the biggest show of the year


2nd biggest he goes on last over punk cena big show
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso View Post
If hhh truly cared about putting the right guys over he wouldn't have beaten punk while punk was the top face in the company. If punk wins there and then takes the title from del rio it would have done far more for him and been his big win in a weak run including his title run. Instead he loses, wins the title and doesn't main event and takes a 2nd fiddle to hhh vs lesnar

Also I find it funny that when hhh is in a title match it goes on last even over hogan rock but punk holds the title and hhh will go after him
I completely agree with about Punk.

CM Punk was hot shit back in 2011 and that is definitely one instance where Triple H should have done the JOB.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:56 PM   #19
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Also, whoever said that Cena was made before Triple H jobbed to him, I'm going to have to disagree. Triple H matches at that time had the same aura that Cena matches do now. You just KNEW Triple H was going to win. When he didn't, you knew something big was happening. Just like Cena now.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:58 PM   #20
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I think hhh takes more shit than he should from fans but he also deserves some level of shit.

I just think of his peers and it seems like he's done less to leave a good business than others which is ironic since he now runs the company.

Just imagine hhh taking a triple power bomb from the shield and disappearing. I can't either. But taker does it. And he's a rung above hhh
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:59 PM   #21
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Also, whoever said that Cena was made before Triple H jobbed to him, I'm going to have to disagree. Triple H matches at that time had the same aura that Cena matches do now. You just KNEW Triple H was going to win. When he didn't, you knew something big was happening. Just like Cena now.
I dunno cena was champ for a year at that point...
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:01 AM   #22
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Cena went over jbl Jericho and angle and was champ a year...he was already the face of the company....but sure the hhh match was the icing on the cake
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:04 AM   #23
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The Triple H match SOLIDIFIED it.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:05 AM   #24
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Even though Cena had done all of that, everybody I watched that show with was pretty shocked when Cena won.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:05 AM   #25
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And that was pretty much the last time we'd ever be shocked by a Cena win again...besides arguably HBK at 23.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:11 AM   #26
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I dunno I felt different. I felt like super cena would win that and I haven't been shocked by a loss since. His few losses have been star making. Edge, Bryan, punk.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:12 AM   #27
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You could argue del rio as well.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:27 AM   #28
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Del Rio beat Cena?
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:33 AM   #29
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And that was pretty much the last time we'd ever be shocked by a Cena win again...besides arguably HBK at 23.
Who in their right mind would have been picking HBK to win that match??
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:47 AM   #30
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HBK was a replacement for HHH who got his quad broken a month before the PPV. I hope nobody if they remembered that.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:46 AM   #31
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Awesome, so 2 rights fix 1000 wrongs
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:53 AM   #32
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You could argue its a chicken/egg type situation.

HHH doesn't put over the guys that he thinks won't be franchise players.

Or

HHH doesn't put them over so they don't become franchise players.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Del Rio beat Cena?
Yes. Del rio took punks title then beat cena in a 3 way and also in a last man standing match then cena left he title scene to work with the rock.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:02 AM   #34
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So to the point of the thread, cena puts more people over more often when it makes sense. Also while he's a much bigger name and star than hhh. Cena has been the face of the company for 10 years and beating him means far more than hhh.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:32 AM   #35
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And that was pretty much the last time we'd ever be shocked by a Cena win again...besides arguably HBK at 23.
Until he beats Taker at Mania.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:40 AM   #36
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So to the point of the thread, cena puts more people over more often when it makes sense. Also while he's a much bigger name and star than hhh. Cena has been the face of the company for 10 years and beating him means far more than hhh.
Well yes, obviously it does NOW. I was just saying that Cena became MADE with the Triple H victory. Like, FOR REAL made. Basically going from Randy Orton level to...well, John Cena level.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #37
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Who in their right mind would have been picking HBK to win that match??
The Heartbreak Kid doesn't lay down for anybody.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #38
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Until he beats Taker at Mania.
Also quite possible.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:51 AM   #39
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I think Cena was extremely over before HHH. Cena was already made, and you guys are overstating HHH's impact on Cena's career.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:03 AM   #40
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I remember the feeling around Mania 22 was that a lot of people wanted Triple H to win to break up the monotony of Cena's title run, with Cena being booed out of a lot of buildings.

JR on commentary made it seem like the Chicago crowd was full of Nick Bockwinkles
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