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Wake me up when december ends

The only thing remotely interesting right now in WWE is Brock Lesnar. Seth Rollins is constantly losing and he is the WWE champ He lost 3 out of 4 times to the US champ. The people are behind Cesaro and he is losing to the Big Show who no one cares about. Rusev and Ziggler are trading wins which is putting nobody over. No one in the midcard is ever getting over. Kevin Owens is ok but should be in a higher spot. Shield vs Wyatts is ok. New Day Rocks, but I’ll just watch their antics on youtube.
Think I’ll just watch MNF until the rumble picks up.

I too find it hard to get enthused about the current product. Very few guys getting hot and put into programs that matter. They've actually managed to turn Dolph Ziggler -- a usual highlight for many fans -- into the low point of the show every week.

Got no fucking clue what they are trying to do with Cesaro. I understand the idea of putting Big Show over en route to a big showing with Brock Lesnar, but that match is drawing on the sole principle of it being Brock Lesnar. If Cesaro had found a way to beat Big Show, it creates this sense in the average fan's mind of Lesnar vs. Cesaro being a match they want to see -- something that was also placed there with Cesaro's alignment with Paul Heyman after WrestleMania XXX. Regardless of whether or not they go with the guy or not, it doesn't hurt to have those fan associations as you build to future Lesnar appearances -- especially with nothing really sticking out for Lesnar as far as WrestleMania programs go.

But right now, I actually think one of the best things they could do with Cesaro is put him against The Miz. Seriously. The personality of The Miz is enough to carry the presentation of that program, and the matches aren't going to be the worst thing ever. People would go nuts for Cesaro uppercutting the crap out of Miz at Madison Square Garden after Miz talks about being from a real city like Los Angeles. Use the Daniel Bryan/Miz program that they used in 2010 as a template -- "Where is your personality? I'm a real Superstar" -- which actually benefited Miz in the short-term too.

I want some proper heels in the tag division too. Right now it's New Day against whichever face team they have the spotlight on at the moment. They're entertaining, but not in a way that you hate them as heels. This isn't going to change wrestling or anything, but how about going somewhere with this Los Matadores heel turn thing and have them break on the characters, talk about how they are former champions, and The Crown Princes of Puerto Rico. Maybe they can fuck over The Dudleys, as I feel those teams would have a good dynamic.

I'm kind of intrigued by Charlotte vs. Paige, but there are too many extraneous characters floating around that program that they need to address. Becky Lynch is just there, The Bellas aren't going to disappear, Natalya has just shown up and there's the entirety of Team BAD looming over it all.

Sheamus isn't the guy to be holding the Money in the Bank briefcase either. It just doesn't seem...impending. Bray Wyatt would have been a great choice, because his character lends itself to being a dark shadow over the landscape of WWE, and the idea of Wyatt screwing Reigns out of another title shot was the impetus of their feud anyway. Wouldn't it have worked out to have that title shot still present in the program?

I feel the show lacks someone that is truly over. There seems to be concern over his medical status, but Daniel Bryan seems to be medically cleared. I don't want the guy to be in any sort of dangerous position, but isn't the idea of professional wrestling at all a dangerous position? The WWE's reluctance to bring him back into the fold seems...odd.

Heel Chris Jericho would make everything in wrestling all right again.

Heel Chris Jericho vs. Face Dean Ambrose over the IC Title would be a crazy good program.

Sheamus is colder than cold. Ice cold.

I can honestly see WWE holding Bryan off until the night after the Rumble, just so it won't get hijacked again.

<font color=goldenrod>It's just so hard for me to care. I have Raw on every week but it typically ends up being little more than background noise for me while I screw around on TPWW.

As far as match quality is concerned, it's about as good as it's ever been. Every single Raw has a few good matches, sometimes even great ones. But it never feel like the story moves anywhere or nothing of consequence ever happens. Okay, so the face triumphed over the heel in a great match. Great. Where will it go from there?

Usually in WWE land, they'll just wrestle again on SmackDown or the next week on Raw and the needle won't move on the story one bit. Hell SmackDown in general is just matches with no purpose, with every good match getting repeated on Raw anyway. The matches barely matter at all at this point, which is a shame because a lot of guys are busting their asses for such a boring product.</font>

I really don't get why they need to put Cena over Rollins 3/4 times cleanly when Rollins is the one with the World Title.

I'm trying to think of a recent match result that has elevated anyone. Is that even possible now?

Will they go back to Cena vs. Owens now that both have belts? Or will Owens start a similar deal as the U.S. Open where he constantly brings in scrubs to beat until someone steps in? I'm thinking Zayn if he's fit or a way to debut Balor or Joe. Or will we get more from Ryback/Owens? Does anybody even want that?

Yea it seems WWE is in filler mode right now with their story lines. Everyone knows they are building towards HHH vs Rollins but it taking to long. I don't know if they are saving it for WM or what but the longer it takes the weaker Rollins is going to look. I'm all for a heel champion that cheats to win but the dude loses to much and I feel like the WWE title is lower tier than the US title. Kane? I understand it and all but everyone knows Kane won't win and it takes the fun out of the match. Just wish they would kick start the Rollins /HHH feud already. And I would like to see Sheamus cash in unsuccessfully, in a really stupid way so he can look and be stupid together.

Heels are supposed to cheat. Flair always begged off during matches, but only to sucker you in and/or forearm to the balls. They're supposed to be able to win on their own, but they take the easier way and bend/break rules.

Cowboy Inno Watts. Fuck the top rope.

I don't think they're taking too long with it, it's good not to rush it. The problem is Kane in a World Title programme. Every champion seems to feud with Kane at some point and it's always boring. I was digging the idea that Corporate Kane and Demon Kane were two separate entities within Kane, now they've made it clear that CK knows what's going down I'm less of a fan.

Really no idea why they're running Show vs. Lesnar. We've seen it before, more than once, and it means they simply have to heat BS up at the expense of other talent just to feed Lesnar, who at this point doesn't need this win. I'm pleased that Taker/Lesnar won't make it to Mania. Or will it?

I think there's more harm being done in the way they deal with Rollins outside of the ring. The way the Authority treat him undermines his status as "The Guy"/World Champion. But, I've had my fill of Cena/Rollins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XL (Post 4707906)

Really no idea why they're running Show vs. Lesnar. We've seen it before, more than once, and it means they simply have to heat BS up at the expense of other talent just to feed Lesnar, who at this point doesn't need this win. I'm pleased that Taker/Lesnar won't make it to Mania. Or will it?

They literally took the most interesting guy in the company and paired him with the least interesting guy.

They still have Chris Jericho, why not make that the Main event at the MSG show, they have never squared off before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innovator (Post 4707891)

I really don't get why they need to put Cena over Rollins 3/4 times cleanly when Rollins is the one with the World Title.

Probably the same reason as with Kevin Owens. The WWE legit fears Cena's merch sales ever dropping and panics if he's seen as weak to the kids.

They would rather keep his status artificially inflated than use him to legit build new stars for the long run or future.

I remember in an old WCW vs WWF DVD they criticized WCW for not letting any stars to move up as a top player except Goldberg. Kinda feel like WWE is doing the same thing now.

A lot of the bullshit they harp on Wcw for is exactly what they've done throughout their history. The poaching of talent and refusal to legit elevate any young talent being the two most obvious pot calling the kettle black rants.

It's sometimes hard to see the bigger picture. This is clearly evident by this thread.

I would say 90% off current booking is spot on to get where they need to go.

Its funny to me to read someone criticize the booking of an angle and then go on to explain the reasoning for the booking in the same post.

I'll start with Rollins. Rollins won the title in the most undeserving way possible. He cashed in MITB and didn't even pin the champ. I would guess the medium range plan is a rematch with Cena fir the WWE title. Rollins is the heel still, so a logical way to build up intetest is to have the babyface win non title (or in this case US title matches) to build up the excitment for the babyface overcoming the dastardly heel champ. Kane is just there as a time filler. It's always been done in WWE. They have tentpole shows that they spend extra time building towards.

Second, and this is my favorite lack of comprehension - Big Show vs Cesaro. The big match they are CURRENTLY promoting is Show vs Lesnar on a NETWORK SPECIAL. In case you guys didn't know, those NETWORK SPECIALS are important because they help drive additional NETWORK SUBSCRIBERS. How many guys on the roster can you put against Brock that would make you think even for a second that Brock may lose? There's not many. Spoiler alert: Brock is most likely going to win. That heats Brock back up for Taker - which is the most important match to sell this month - again on another NETWORK SPECIAL. It's like the most logical booking of all time.

Now here's where most of you guys miss the boat. Cesaro is gaining popularity. Big Show needed someone to heat him up to get ready for Brock. Sure, you could pick another guy to heat up Show, but Cesaro is someone the people care about, and in the long run this will help Cesaro. If you actually watch the fights, you will see Cesaro gets put over in commentary for putting up a fight and trying crazy strength moves against Big Show. But he keeps coming up short. Once Show is done putting over Lesnar strong, I would bet you will see the tide magically change in the ongoing Cesaro-Big Show issue. Instead of Cesaro just going over Show in 5 minutes and quickly heading nowhere back weeks ago when this started, you get multiple weeks of telling a story of Cesaro overcoming the odds. Terrible terrible booking, amirite?

Cesaro-Lesnar? Amazing idea. But not for anytime soon. Cesaro isn't there yet. Working with vets like Show, learning how to be a sympathetic babyface will help him get there. It's all about timing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XL (Post 4707897)

I'm guessing Owens is tied to Ryback for a bit. I could see Cesaro-Owens as the medium term plan. I see them as being in similar spots to HHH and Rock in mid 97. They can be guys who feud with each other for years and years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707941)

I'll start with Rollins. Rollins won the title in the most undeserving way possible. He cashed in MITB and didn't even pin the champ. I would guess the medium range plan is a rematch with Cena fir the WWE title. Rollins is the heel still, so a logical way to build up intetest is to have the babyface win non title (or in this case US title matches) to build up the excitment for the babyface overcoming the dastardly heel champ. Kane is just there as a time filler. It's always been done in WWE. They have tentpole shows that they spend extra time building towards.

Why even book a clean finish to the match if Cena/Rollins is not leading to a Cena/Rollins match for the WWE title in the near future? You just make your top belt look shitty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707941)

Second, and this is my favorite lack of comprehension - Big Show vs Cesaro. The big match they are CURRENTLY promoting is Show vs Lesnar on a NETWORK SPECIAL. In case you guys didn't know, those NETWORK SPECIALS are important because they help drive additional NETWORK SUBSCRIBERS. How many guys on the roster can you put against Brock that would make you think even for a second that Brock may lose? There's not many. Spoiler alert: Brock is most likely going to win. That heats Brock back up for Taker - which is the most important match to sell this month - again on another NETWORK SPECIAL. It's like the most logical booking of all time.

They should not even be making this match no one cares about Big Show. Having Lesnar face any one else on the roster is more intriguing.

Everyone always says "wait and see". When were they ever right this past decade?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4707958)

Everyone always says "wait and see". When were they ever right this past decade?

I think Cena pinning Rollins multiple times is leading to Cena getting a title shot at Survivor Series (a major event). This Kane thing is there is close the book on the angle that put Kane on the shelf, and to create a scenario where it looks like Rollins is a caged rat, but he fights out and wins. Then he's stronger for Cena, and I am guessing he goes over Cena too. Or this is where he finally loses, but it's close and he looks strong in losing.

Gimme a better fight for Lesnar at MSG. You want someone threatening who Lesnar can look impressive dominating. Good luck.

Yeah Daniel Bryan is an example. Internet was all like oh he isn't seen as a top guy, he's being kept at a certain level, the Wyatt feud is a waste, then you watch the road to Mania 30 unfold and what do you know but Bryan beats HHH, Batista, and Orton in one night. Of course the Internet continues to complain about it. But it was a great example of letting WWE play out their long term vision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4707958)

Everyone always says "wait and see". When were they ever right this past decade?

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/im...540&h=359&q=75

http://images.mstarz.com/data/images...lemania-30.jpg

:wave:

Those were 2 different story lines had the first picture have been Orton cashing in I would have responded with

"WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put Daniel back in the title picture."

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707968)

Gimme a better fight for Lesnar at MSG. You want someone threatening who Lesnar can look impressive dominating. Good luck.

Anyone is more interesting..... Fine Rusev.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707968)

Yeah Daniel Bryan is an example. Internet was all like oh he isn't seen as a top guy, he's being kept at a certain level, the Wyatt feud is a waste, then you watch the road to Mania 30 unfold and what do you know but Bryan beats HHH, Batista, and Orton in one night. Of course the Internet continues to complain about it. But it was a great example of letting WWE play out their long term vision.

That was not their long term vision, They wanted Daniel to face Sheamus at WM30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707941)

I think you are WWE's number one apologist. there's a reason their product is so lacklustre and it's not cuz of good booking and good t.v.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4707978)

Those were 2 different story lines had the first picture have been Orton cashing in I would have responded with

"WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put Daniel back in the title picture."

You never specified that they had to be the same storylines.

Vic - Rusev? The guy who has been in a joke program with Lana is going to step up and be a legit threat to Lesnar. I don't see it.

Who told you the plan was Bryan v Sheamus? Vince? Paul? Steph? Maybe you should check your sources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4707978)

Those were 2 different story lines had the first picture have been Orton cashing in I would have responded with

"WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put Daniel back in the title picture."

Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the dirt sheet writer BS.

Yeah WWE accidentally built all their storylines to come together at the biggest show of the year with Bryan overcoming huge odds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707945)

I see. Like the never-ending Orton/Sheamus programme that everybody raved about!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707968)

So, we have to tread water for a couple of months with programmes that don't hold any interest for the sake of a match that we've already had 3 times in the last month? Yes that's "long-term booking" but it's boring before we get there, and we've already been to the destination 3 times recently.

Also, I think it's pretty much accepted that they weren't building to Bryan winning the World Title at Mania. Doesn't he say as much himself in a WWE produced interview?

Or is "we had Bryan lined up to face Sheamus until Punk walked and Batista failed to get over as a face and we had to scramble to put something together" part of the story?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707986)

Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the dirt sheet writer BS.

Yeah WWE accidentally built all their storylines to come together at the biggest show of the year with Bryan overcoming huge odds.

Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the company line BS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XL (Post 4707987)

I see. Like the never-ending Orton/Sheamus programme that everybody raved about!

So, we have to tread water for a couple of months with programmes that don't hold any interest for the sake of a match that we've already had 3 times in the last month? Yes that's "long-term booking" but it's boring before we get there, and we've already been to the destination 3 times recently.

Also, I think it's pretty much accepted that they weren't building to Bryan winning the World Title at Mania. Doesn't he say as much himself in a WWE produced interview?

Or is "we had Bryan lined up to face Sheamus until Punk walked and Batista failed to get over as a face and we had to scramble to put something together" part of the story?

I think a lot of ideas were up in the air, but if you watch the TV in the months leading to Mania, the central storyline was HHH driving it home that Bryan was above average but not good enough to be champion. The logical conclusion to that would be Bryan overcoming the odds.

But i guess some guy in catering told one of the dirt sheet writers it was all leading to Sheamus vs Bryan, and that's what we'll believe to be true. But ya know, plans change, just in case we got the story completely wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707986)

Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the dirt sheet writer BS.

Yeah WWE accidentally built all their storylines to come together at the biggest show of the year with Bryan overcoming huge odds.

Well considering he got jobbed in the opener and wasn't even in the rumble it's not exactly a huge stretch. Pretty sure they've so much as admitted it wasn't i the cards, and I've heard Bautista confirm it I'm quite sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XL (Post 4707989)

Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the company line BS.

The company didn't tell me anything. I'm going by what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

you're believing tabloid level "journalists" who thrive on making up BS to sell subscriptions.

I understand what you're saying Cynick, regarding having to present short/mid/long term storylines but do you seriously believe that they plan that far ahead? When everything points to the contrary?

But more importantly, you can't sit there and basically tell people that they should enjoy the short term crap in the hope that the long term stuff will be good. How much "good will" can a company/product/TV build up before they pay it off? There's not many TV shows that ask you to sit through 40-120 bours of TV before you get a decent pay-off/progression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4707991)

He jobbed when now?

Confirm what exactly? The TV storyline that it was originally Bats vs Orton? That's called kayfabe.

Well considering Dave Meltzer is friendly with most wrestlers and they all seem to like and trust him, I generally buy his word.

The dirt sheets aren't always right but they're as good as source as any sports writers dishing the scoop. I think you're reaching and you assume that everyone here is a typical internet fan, when in reality this is a pretty god damned well educated (wrestling wise) group of guys who've come up watching around over 20 years. Your take is largely off base, and your arguments are painting you into a corner. If you want to debate, you need to come with better stuff than "LOL U BELIEVE THE DIRT SHEETS" because from what I see, they're mostly going on the absolute fucking dreck they have to watch every Monday Night and are not taking any behind the scenes bullshit into account.

Its been stated by numerous wrestlers that the plan was Batista vs Orton at Mania.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707992)

The company didn't tell me anything. I'm going by what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

you're believing tabloid level "journalists" who thrive on making up BS to sell subscriptions.

I'm going by what Bryan himself said (but of course, it could be a smokescreen)

http://www.newsday.com/sports/pro-wr...reer-1.9811542

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4707996)

He jobbed when now?

Confirm what exactly? The TV storyline that it was originally Bats vs Orton? That's called kayfabe.

You are actually talking complete bullshit. I expect more from you. He jobbed to Bray Wyatt in the opener at the rumble. Bautista won the rumble and expected to face Orton (Bautista face, Orton Heel) at Mania. But the fans took a steaming dump on it because the fed botched Bautista's return, which if you watch the product (not follow the dirt sheets) they quite clearly did. He was getting booed when he was supposed to be a mega face returning after a long absence. Please dispute me on this, and tell me it's all kayfabe, without sounding like a complete blowhard. I dare you.

The product is lacking, there is no true steam behind it, and whenever there is any steam they are very quick to go back to the status quo as fast as possible. In saying that, the in ring product is pretty good, but with no meaning. They are clearly booking week to week, and the business itself is just too big for a guy like Vince to keep up with anymore, but he's the only game in town.

But you're making the discussion about something it's not.

Simply, there are a lot of people that aren't happy with the product (half a million that were watching last year but aren't this week, for example).

Oh look, another thread turned into a CyNick argument.

Yeah, it's a little silly. He's like a black hole (or a car crash).

I'm always a little worried I'm being circular with my arguments but unfortunately he takes the cake. Pretty smart guy, but he's wasting his time trying to make meaningless points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708003)

Even Batista was pissed at how badly they botched his return to the point he wants nothing to do with the WWE in the near future. Mostly upset at being made into the scapegoat and having his image ruined a bit because of the WWE's ineptness.

WWE tried to pass it off as the whole thing being planned from the start in a Rolling Stones or Grantland interview but nobody believed it. Got ridiculed by the Observer I think for trying to imply any of what they said was true.

His initial bone to pick which I agree with is he didn't get his moment with the fans, instead he had to come down and interrupt some stupid authority promo, just like a "regular" part of the show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4707999)

His business relies on people like you believing WWE is a garbage fire. That drives more people to his newsletter to read about the "drama backstage". Meanwhile, he never talks to the key players who actually make these changes (Vince, Kevin, Trips, Steph). He picks up bits and pieces from mostly disgruntled workers, who likely have less than 5% of the full picture of what is going on. Then when he's wrong about something, he just goes "plans changed".

The reality is its a successful $1.3B business that continues to grow. But, sure, because you, Meltz, and a few dudes on the internet dont like how Cesaro is being booked, it means the sky is falling. Listen man, I've heard the same song and dance for more than 10 years from that guy. Its all BS. Try watching the product without reading the sheets, and try to tell me its not more enjoyable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4708001)

Its been stated by numerous wrestlers that the plan was Batista vs Orton at Mania.

Maybe it was, maybe it wasnt. The inner circle may have had 3 or 4 ideas for potential main events. They ended up getting fully behind Bryan winning the strap.

You are inferring a lot from the fact that we read the dirt sheets. First of all I ain't paying for his shitty news letter and I don't listen to his radio show. I pick up bits and pieces of dirt sheet news and the rest I just go with what I see. What I often see is meandering acts and dead crowds, interspersed with some pretty good matches, and a bunch of guys who are trying to remember scripted lines. So I avoid watching very much.

People get upset watching a guy like Cesaro who is incredibly talented have the rug pulled out from under him any time he gains traction. Vince himself claimed he's not too big on Cesaro, yet whenever you give the guy a chance to really work in a good spot, he delivers. That's not Dave Meltzer telling anyone, that's what people see.

those consistently declining ratings sure are a great sign for their product.

and those ratings weren't declining when the product was at its best 15 years ago... football season or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708003)

WWE didnt both Dave's return, the fans just liked Bryan more, and wrongfully expected Bryan to return in the Rumble match. If WWE was so against Bryan, why keep him in main angles on TV, why not just push him down the card. He was working with HHH and Steph THE ENTIRE road to Mania. Clearly they were going somewhere with him, and clearly he was a central part of the storyline.

So why do you think WWE continues to be so successful if the product is so crap? Ever think maybe you're tastes are not aligned with the product, and you should just stop watching the product? So many people like you complain and complain, and yet you have a pretty vivid memory of every angle and match. Its like you're complaining because you think its the right thing to do. Surely if something annoyed you that much you would quit watching. Or maybe you just prefer being miserable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XL (Post 4708005)

ratings fluctuate. The business as a whole continues to thrive. Why is that?

the ratings have been on a consisten decline for a decade. that's not a fluctuation. those are just facts.

NO DIRT SHEETS NEEDED

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball (Post 4708012)

So you think Grantland and Rolling Stones are less credible than the Observer? Perfect.

You're just picking and choosing who to believe. The reality showed that they had Bryan in the mix for Mania right from the start and followed through with it. Albeit maybe some elements of the overall story changed along the way, but the end game was always put Bryan on top and overcome the doubters and naysayers.

You PREFER to believe some musings of a con man who's whole business is predicated on telling half truths and making crap up to generate interest in his product. Its really hilarious how much you believe in him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ron the dial (Post 4708037)

the ratings have been on a consisten decline for a decade. that's not a fluctuation. those are just facts.

So? In your mind, if you dont have ratings at 2005 levels, you cant be financially successful?

How people consume the product today is much different than it was in 1995 and even 2005. Surely you can understand that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4708034)

I pick and choose what I watch on the internet, and do not contribute to their pay-per-views or raw ratings... largely because I'm a wrestling fan and not a WWE fan. If I see something is good, I make a point to find and watch. If I turn on RAW for 5 minutes, it's usually shit and I turn it off. And I don't prefer being miserable because I watch tons of wrestling still, and enjoy the fuck out of it.... it just happens to be matches from 2 decades ago for the most part which I'm lucky enough with todays technology to be able to watch.

The reason why the WWE is successful is the same reason the Simpsons is successful, resting on their laurels from back when the put forth a superior product, and surviving on being a brand more than a good product. WWE is the only real game in town, and their closest competition is TNA and let's not get into that mess.

CyNick - Me Against the World

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4708041)

You PREFER to believe some musings of a con man who's whole business is predicated on telling half truths and making crap up to generate interest in his product. Its really hilarious how much you believe in him.

You just described everyone in the wrestling business. And I think if there's one thing that's clear, it's that people don't necessarily believe Dave Meltzer, he's just a fairly credible source comparitively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708030)

So you just parrot what he says. I commend you for saving your money.

Another one of these guys who "rarely watches" but knows every angle that Cesaro has been in. Got it, you rarely watch.

Cesaro is the perfect example of a guy who wasnt ready, and really still isnt to headline. He close, but he's not there yet. He needs to work some programs, learn how to bring a crowd up and down in the course of a match, and then we'll see where we're at with him. He's got a lot of gifts, but Mark Henry is a strong mofo, and was from day, doesn't mean he should be carrying the company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4708045)

i do understand that, but i'm not so sure advertisers or the network care. ratings are ratings.

god you are a patronizing fuck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708049)

He's not though.

He's like a rat who gets a crumb, and thinks he knows everything that was on the dinner plate.

If he was really credible, he would have Hunter or Vince on his show, or have quotes from them in his newsletter. But its always "sources say". Its carny shit. And yes, its a carny business, but he's just like everyone in it. Yet people like you think he's talking truth, when in reality he's just pushing an agenda that props up his business model.

Its perfectly logical that WWE would go into a Mania season and have multiple avenues they can go down to get to the same end goal. If Daniel Bryan was so hated by the Vince's of the world, and they really didnt want him to have the ball, why program him with The Authority? You could just put him in an angle with the midget Bull guy, and let the fans chant "YES" for 7 minutes per show and be done with it. OR Hunter could have just beat him clean as a sheet, or at least have Orton or Batista do it. But no, they booked him to go over STRONG on the BIGGEST SHOW OF ALL TIME.

I dont know how you guys can twist that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ron the dial (Post 4708051)

i do understand that, but i'm not so sure advertisers or the network care. ratings are ratings.

So did WWE get cancelled or do they keep getting signed to lucrative TV rights fee deals? Maybe I should stop reading the WWE Financial Reports, and just come to you for the health of the business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708020)

His initial bone to pick which I agree with is he didn't get his moment with the fans, instead he had to come down and interrupt some stupid authority promo, just like a "regular" part of the show.

Batista was really screwed over by that run on WWE TV. I remember seeing that movie he was in completely bomb at the box office right after his run. Oh, whats that? It was a financial success, and has launched Batista into the mainstream in Hollywood, and allowed him to get multiple future bookings? Hmmm makes me think he run was actually a success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4708041)

Are you talking about Meltzer or McMahon here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708032)

and those ratings weren't declining when the product was at its best 15 years ago... football season or not.

LOL 15 years ago.

You know how AMAZING it is to be on TV for 15 YEARS?

I love your logic. Its just...words cant even describe.

hahaha, you read WWE financial reports?

The fuck is your damage, boy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XL (Post 4708060)

Are you talking about Meltzer or McMahon here?

Vince is a con man too, no doubt, thats the business. Or it was anyway. Now he's a publicly traded, he has to be more up front.

Meltz has no such restraint.

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Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4708057)

His run in WWE had literally nothing to do with the success of Guardia--no, I'm not even gonna bother.

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Originally Posted by Sixx (Post 4708063)

hahaha, you read WWE financial reports?

The fuck is your damage, boy?

Yes, I do.

Do those include spandex spendings and shit like that?

<font color=goldenrod>I've often wondered if somebody from WWE secretly posts on TPWW. The more I read from The CyNick the more I'm convinced he works there.</font>

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Originally Posted by Vito Cruz (Post 4708070)

<font color=goldenrod>I've often wondered if somebody from WWE secretly posts on TPWW. The more I read from The CyNick the more I'm convinced he works there.</font>

One of these days CyNick is gonna reveal himself to have been Vince McMahon all along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixx (Post 4708068)

Do those include spandex spendings and shit like that?

Its not a specific line item.

Seriously what the fuck are you all arguing about? Don't know what the fuck happened to this thread. Original poster was right though, fucking product sucks so much right now. You can all bitch about ratings/original plans/Batista's cock all you like. Doesn't change the fact that WWE programming is so boring right now.

Lol at this thread and Cynick. Dude must be a member of the Vince McMahon kiss my ass club. Anyone that thinks it was the plan for Bryan to main event WM30 from the start is blind. They literally had to pull him out of a feud with Wyatt in which he had just became a member of the Wyatt family.

I'm still wondering why anyone would pay money to see Cena v Rollins on ppv or the Network when we've gotten it for free pretty much all year. I don't understand the business model behind that.

Without ads and they know they don't show everything they can do on free tv.

Cynick is a black hole of brutality, going to have to ignore him from now on.]

Current product is boring. Nuff said

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Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead (Post 4708141)

Cynick is a black hole of brutality, going to have to ignore him from now on.]

Current product is boring. Nuff said

Yup. So we'll meet up Monday night to discuss RAW? And every week after that and every PPV? We can make lists about how much this show we watch week in and week out blows. It'll be fun.

I won't be there you guys will have to tell me what happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The CyNick (Post 4708034)

He was working with HHH and Steph THE ENTIRE road to Mania. Clearly they were going somewhere with him, and clearly he was a central part of the storyline.

No he was working with Bray Wyatt until WWE had to abort that feud.

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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon (Post 4708133)

Without ads and they know they don't show everything they can do on free tv.

"Television, not TV."

Whenever America decides to stop the PC, then we will see the return of the Attitude. Sorry not sorry guys, Attitude Era fan in the house

Don't know why the WWE refuses to call it Brocktoberfest. Have him do a gauntlet for 3 hours on raw.

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Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4708290)

"Television, not TV."

Hmmm is the WWE Network television or not. Let us debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vic (Post 4708290)

"Television, not TV."

Also, advertisements, not ads.

The product could still thrive without the crash tv approach. The problem lies in not investing in anyone not named Cena. Your top champion shouldn't be losing at all unless he's being a scum bag getting disqualified.

Giving away matches for free, like Cena Rollins. Maybe the televised matches aren't as good as the Network special bouts, but it's still the two same guys going at it on free tv. Kills any hype. Lesnar only wrestling on ppv made him a legit prize fighter attraction. Of course Rollins being featured weekly and defending the belt monthly will water that down, but he shouldn't be getting pinned or submitted cleanly on tv.

The other issue is direction. CyNick joked about Rusev being a contender for Brock and he's right in doing so, citing the currently lame direction they have him going. He went from having a great debut run, through a solid program with Cena, to feuding with a now kinda creepy Dolph Ziggler. Lana goes from being a strong, intelligent woman to arm candy scorned by a seemingly unfaithful man. It was needless and only diminished the characters they spent nearly a year building.

And of course Bray Wyatt should be a, if not the top heel in the company, but he's never been pushed to that level despite consistently delivering on the micand in the ring. He's been over guys like Ambrose, Reigns and Bryan, but they haven't given him that one signature win and I don't understand why.

<font color=goldenrod>I've basically lost faith in Wyatt ever being the top heel in the company. Just feels like it would have happened by now rather than him spending the better part of 2 years just sorta treading water and never really gaining any long-term momentum. Maybe they just don't have faith in his ability to go out an put on an interesting 20 minute main event every PPV.

I mean, even his matches with Cena and Taker were boring as fuck IMO. They clearly trust him to deliver the goods on the mic but the end result ends up just falling flat.</font>

Joking aside, Lesnar vs. Rusev is something I can totally see the WWE doing at WrestleMania next year. They'll just pretend that this extended back-and-forth program with Dolph Ziggler never happened.

All this losing of faith in guys having huge futures sure is great for business isn't it?

The legitimate plans for SmackDown circa 2006/2007 was to launch into a Bobby Lashley/Mr. Kennedy/MVP era. All of those guys are still wrestling, but two left the company and one got fired. It's sad to think about where guys can be not ten years after having the world in their hands.

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Originally Posted by Simple Fan (Post 4708086)

The angle played itself out. Bryan wanted to get Bray alone.

I don't think Bryan winning was necessarily the plan the day after Mania 29, but I do think it was in the plans months before 30. Hence all the interactions with HHH.

But keep thinking everything was an accident

The thing about Rusev/Lesnar is that it more intriguing than Show/Lesnar.

Henry/Lesnar is more intriguing. Anyone on the roster is more intriguing than Show/Lesnar.

I'd rather see Lesnar eat Fandango than even touch Big Show.