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Old 09-23-2015, 10:00 AM   #1
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Wake me up when december ends
The only thing remotely interesting right now in WWE is Brock Lesnar. Seth Rollins is constantly losing and he is the WWE champ He lost 3 out of 4 times to the US champ. The people are behind Cesaro and he is losing to the Big Show who no one cares about. Rusev and Ziggler are trading wins which is putting nobody over. No one in the midcard is ever getting over. Kevin Owens is ok but should be in a higher spot. Shield vs Wyatts is ok. New Day Rocks, but I’ll just watch their antics on youtube.
Think I’ll just watch MNF until the rumble picks up.

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I do not have to take this from someone with that kind of top 10 recommended YouTube suggestions.

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Old 09-23-2015, 10:55 AM   #2
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I too find it hard to get enthused about the current product. Very few guys getting hot and put into programs that matter. They've actually managed to turn Dolph Ziggler -- a usual highlight for many fans -- into the low point of the show every week.

Got no fucking clue what they are trying to do with Cesaro. I understand the idea of putting Big Show over en route to a big showing with Brock Lesnar, but that match is drawing on the sole principle of it being Brock Lesnar. If Cesaro had found a way to beat Big Show, it creates this sense in the average fan's mind of Lesnar vs. Cesaro being a match they want to see -- something that was also placed there with Cesaro's alignment with Paul Heyman after WrestleMania XXX. Regardless of whether or not they go with the guy or not, it doesn't hurt to have those fan associations as you build to future Lesnar appearances -- especially with nothing really sticking out for Lesnar as far as WrestleMania programs go.

But right now, I actually think one of the best things they could do with Cesaro is put him against The Miz. Seriously. The personality of The Miz is enough to carry the presentation of that program, and the matches aren't going to be the worst thing ever. People would go nuts for Cesaro uppercutting the crap out of Miz at Madison Square Garden after Miz talks about being from a real city like Los Angeles. Use the Daniel Bryan/Miz program that they used in 2010 as a template -- "Where is your personality? I'm a real Superstar" -- which actually benefited Miz in the short-term too.

I want some proper heels in the tag division too. Right now it's New Day against whichever face team they have the spotlight on at the moment. They're entertaining, but not in a way that you hate them as heels. This isn't going to change wrestling or anything, but how about going somewhere with this Los Matadores heel turn thing and have them break on the characters, talk about how they are former champions, and The Crown Princes of Puerto Rico. Maybe they can fuck over The Dudleys, as I feel those teams would have a good dynamic.
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Old 09-23-2015, 10:56 AM   #3
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I'm kind of intrigued by Charlotte vs. Paige, but there are too many extraneous characters floating around that program that they need to address. Becky Lynch is just there, The Bellas aren't going to disappear, Natalya has just shown up and there's the entirety of Team BAD looming over it all.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:01 AM   #4
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Sheamus isn't the guy to be holding the Money in the Bank briefcase either. It just doesn't seem...impending. Bray Wyatt would have been a great choice, because his character lends itself to being a dark shadow over the landscape of WWE, and the idea of Wyatt screwing Reigns out of another title shot was the impetus of their feud anyway. Wouldn't it have worked out to have that title shot still present in the program?

I feel the show lacks someone that is truly over. There seems to be concern over his medical status, but Daniel Bryan seems to be medically cleared. I don't want the guy to be in any sort of dangerous position, but isn't the idea of professional wrestling at all a dangerous position? The WWE's reluctance to bring him back into the fold seems...odd.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:05 AM   #5
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Heel Chris Jericho would make everything in wrestling all right again.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:07 AM   #6
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Heel Chris Jericho vs. Face Dean Ambrose over the IC Title would be a crazy good program.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:08 AM   #7
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Sheamus is colder than cold. Ice cold.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:08 AM   #8
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I can honestly see WWE holding Bryan off until the night after the Rumble, just so it won't get hijacked again.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:11 AM   #9
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It's just so hard for me to care. I have Raw on every week but it typically ends up being little more than background noise for me while I screw around on TPWW.

As far as match quality is concerned, it's about as good as it's ever been. Every single Raw has a few good matches, sometimes even great ones. But it never feel like the story moves anywhere or nothing of consequence ever happens. Okay, so the face triumphed over the heel in a great match. Great. Where will it go from there?

Usually in WWE land, they'll just wrestle again on SmackDown or the next week on Raw and the needle won't move on the story one bit. Hell SmackDown in general is just matches with no purpose, with every good match getting repeated on Raw anyway. The matches barely matter at all at this point, which is a shame because a lot of guys are busting their asses for such a boring product.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:42 AM   #10
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I really don't get why they need to put Cena over Rollins 3/4 times cleanly when Rollins is the one with the World Title.
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:56 AM   #11
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I'm trying to think of a recent match result that has elevated anyone. Is that even possible now?

Will they go back to Cena vs. Owens now that both have belts? Or will Owens start a similar deal as the U.S. Open where he constantly brings in scrubs to beat until someone steps in? I'm thinking Zayn if he's fit or a way to debut Balor or Joe. Or will we get more from Ryback/Owens? Does anybody even want that?
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:03 PM   #12
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Yea it seems WWE is in filler mode right now with their story lines. Everyone knows they are building towards HHH vs Rollins but it taking to long. I don't know if they are saving it for WM or what but the longer it takes the weaker Rollins is going to look. I'm all for a heel champion that cheats to win but the dude loses to much and I feel like the WWE title is lower tier than the US title. Kane? I understand it and all but everyone knows Kane won't win and it takes the fun out of the match. Just wish they would kick start the Rollins /HHH feud already. And I would like to see Sheamus cash in unsuccessfully, in a really stupid way so he can look and be stupid together.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:12 PM   #13
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Heels are supposed to cheat. Flair always begged off during matches, but only to sucker you in and/or forearm to the balls. They're supposed to be able to win on their own, but they take the easier way and bend/break rules.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:13 PM   #14
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Cowboy Inno Watts. Fuck the top rope.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:15 PM   #15
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I don't think they're taking too long with it, it's good not to rush it. The problem is Kane in a World Title programme. Every champion seems to feud with Kane at some point and it's always boring. I was digging the idea that Corporate Kane and Demon Kane were two separate entities within Kane, now they've made it clear that CK knows what's going down I'm less of a fan.

Really no idea why they're running Show vs. Lesnar. We've seen it before, more than once, and it means they simply have to heat BS up at the expense of other talent just to feed Lesnar, who at this point doesn't need this win. I'm pleased that Taker/Lesnar won't make it to Mania. Or will it?
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:17 PM   #16
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I think there's more harm being done in the way they deal with Rollins outside of the ring. The way the Authority treat him undermines his status as "The Guy"/World Champion. But, I've had my fill of Cena/Rollins.
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:42 PM   #17
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Really no idea why they're running Show vs. Lesnar. We've seen it before, more than once, and it means they simply have to heat BS up at the expense of other talent just to feed Lesnar, who at this point doesn't need this win. I'm pleased that Taker/Lesnar won't make it to Mania. Or will it?
They literally took the most interesting guy in the company and paired him with the least interesting guy.

They still have Chris Jericho, why not make that the Main event at the MSG show, they have never squared off before.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:26 PM   #18
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I really don't get why they need to put Cena over Rollins 3/4 times cleanly when Rollins is the one with the World Title.
Probably the same reason as with Kevin Owens. The WWE legit fears Cena's merch sales ever dropping and panics if he's seen as weak to the kids.

They would rather keep his status artificially inflated than use him to legit build new stars for the long run or future.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:33 PM   #19
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I remember in an old WCW vs WWF DVD they criticized WCW for not letting any stars to move up as a top player except Goldberg. Kinda feel like WWE is doing the same thing now.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:05 PM   #20
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A lot of the bullshit they harp on Wcw for is exactly what they've done throughout their history. The poaching of talent and refusal to legit elevate any young talent being the two most obvious pot calling the kettle black rants.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:10 PM   #21
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It's sometimes hard to see the bigger picture. This is clearly evident by this thread.

I would say 90% off current booking is spot on to get where they need to go.

Its funny to me to read someone criticize the booking of an angle and then go on to explain the reasoning for the booking in the same post.

I'll start with Rollins. Rollins won the title in the most undeserving way possible. He cashed in MITB and didn't even pin the champ. I would guess the medium range plan is a rematch with Cena fir the WWE title. Rollins is the heel still, so a logical way to build up intetest is to have the babyface win non title (or in this case US title matches) to build up the excitment for the babyface overcoming the dastardly heel champ. Kane is just there as a time filler. It's always been done in WWE. They have tentpole shows that they spend extra time building towards.

Second, and this is my favorite lack of comprehension - Big Show vs Cesaro. The big match they are CURRENTLY promoting is Show vs Lesnar on a NETWORK SPECIAL. In case you guys didn't know, those NETWORK SPECIALS are important because they help drive additional NETWORK SUBSCRIBERS. How many guys on the roster can you put against Brock that would make you think even for a second that Brock may lose? There's not many. Spoiler alert: Brock is most likely going to win. That heats Brock back up for Taker - which is the most important match to sell this month - again on another NETWORK SPECIAL. It's like the most logical booking of all time.

Now here's where most of you guys miss the boat. Cesaro is gaining popularity. Big Show needed someone to heat him up to get ready for Brock. Sure, you could pick another guy to heat up Show, but Cesaro is someone the people care about, and in the long run this will help Cesaro. If you actually watch the fights, you will see Cesaro gets put over in commentary for putting up a fight and trying crazy strength moves against Big Show. But he keeps coming up short. Once Show is done putting over Lesnar strong, I would bet you will see the tide magically change in the ongoing Cesaro-Big Show issue. Instead of Cesaro just going over Show in 5 minutes and quickly heading nowhere back weeks ago when this started, you get multiple weeks of telling a story of Cesaro overcoming the odds. Terrible terrible booking, amirite?

Cesaro-Lesnar? Amazing idea. But not for anytime soon. Cesaro isn't there yet. Working with vets like Show, learning how to be a sympathetic babyface will help him get there. It's all about timing.
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Old 09-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #22
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I'm trying to think of a recent match result that has elevated anyone. Is that even possible now?

Will they go back to Cena vs. Owens now that both have belts? Or will Owens start a similar deal as the U.S. Open where he constantly brings in scrubs to beat until someone steps in? I'm thinking Zayn if he's fit or a way to debut Balor or Joe. Or will we get more from Ryback/Owens? Does anybody even want that?
I'm guessing Owens is tied to Ryback for a bit. I could see Cesaro-Owens as the medium term plan. I see them as being in similar spots to HHH and Rock in mid 97. They can be guys who feud with each other for years and years.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I'll start with Rollins. Rollins won the title in the most undeserving way possible. He cashed in MITB and didn't even pin the champ. I would guess the medium range plan is a rematch with Cena fir the WWE title. Rollins is the heel still, so a logical way to build up intetest is to have the babyface win non title (or in this case US title matches) to build up the excitment for the babyface overcoming the dastardly heel champ. Kane is just there as a time filler. It's always been done in WWE. They have tentpole shows that they spend extra time building towards.
Why even book a clean finish to the match if Cena/Rollins is not leading to a Cena/Rollins match for the WWE title in the near future? You just make your top belt look shitty.
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Second, and this is my favorite lack of comprehension - Big Show vs Cesaro. The big match they are CURRENTLY promoting is Show vs Lesnar on a NETWORK SPECIAL. In case you guys didn't know, those NETWORK SPECIALS are important because they help drive additional NETWORK SUBSCRIBERS. How many guys on the roster can you put against Brock that would make you think even for a second that Brock may lose? There's not many. Spoiler alert: Brock is most likely going to win. That heats Brock back up for Taker - which is the most important match to sell this month - again on another NETWORK SPECIAL. It's like the most logical booking of all time.
They should not even be making this match no one cares about Big Show. Having Lesnar face any one else on the roster is more intriguing.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:04 PM   #24
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Everyone always says "wait and see". When were they ever right this past decade?
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:47 PM   #25
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Everyone always says "wait and see". When were they ever right this past decade?
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:49 PM   #26
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I think Cena pinning Rollins multiple times is leading to Cena getting a title shot at Survivor Series (a major event). This Kane thing is there is close the book on the angle that put Kane on the shelf, and to create a scenario where it looks like Rollins is a caged rat, but he fights out and wins. Then he's stronger for Cena, and I am guessing he goes over Cena too. Or this is where he finally loses, but it's close and he looks strong in losing.

Gimme a better fight for Lesnar at MSG. You want someone threatening who Lesnar can look impressive dominating. Good luck.

Yeah Daniel Bryan is an example. Internet was all like oh he isn't seen as a top guy, he's being kept at a certain level, the Wyatt feud is a waste, then you watch the road to Mania 30 unfold and what do you know but Bryan beats HHH, Batista, and Orton in one night. Of course the Internet continues to complain about it. But it was a great example of letting WWE play out their long term vision.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:22 PM   #27
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Everyone always says "wait and see". When were they ever right this past decade?




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Old 09-23-2015, 04:26 PM   #28
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Those were 2 different story lines had the first picture have been Orton cashing in I would have responded with

"WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put Daniel back in the title picture."
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Gimme a better fight for Lesnar at MSG. You want someone threatening who Lesnar can look impressive dominating. Good luck.
Anyone is more interesting..... Fine Rusev.
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Yeah Daniel Bryan is an example. Internet was all like oh he isn't seen as a top guy, he's being kept at a certain level, the Wyatt feud is a waste, then you watch the road to Mania 30 unfold and what do you know but Bryan beats HHH, Batista, and Orton in one night. Of course the Internet continues to complain about it. But it was a great example of letting WWE play out their long term vision.
That was not their long term vision, They wanted Daniel to face Sheamus at WM30
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
It's sometimes hard to see the bigger picture. This is clearly evident by this thread.

I would say 90% off current booking is spot on to get where they need to go.

Its funny to me to read someone criticize the booking of an angle and then go on to explain the reasoning for the booking in the same post.

I'll start with Rollins. Rollins won the title in the most undeserving way possible. He cashed in MITB and didn't even pin the champ. I would guess the medium range plan is a rematch with Cena fir the WWE title. Rollins is the heel still, so a logical way to build up intetest is to have the babyface win non title (or in this case US title matches) to build up the excitment for the babyface overcoming the dastardly heel champ. Kane is just there as a time filler. It's always been done in WWE. They have tentpole shows that they spend extra time building towards.

Second, and this is my favorite lack of comprehension - Big Show vs Cesaro. The big match they are CURRENTLY promoting is Show vs Lesnar on a NETWORK SPECIAL. In case you guys didn't know, those NETWORK SPECIALS are important because they help drive additional NETWORK SUBSCRIBERS. How many guys on the roster can you put against Brock that would make you think even for a second that Brock may lose? There's not many. Spoiler alert: Brock is most likely going to win. That heats Brock back up for Taker - which is the most important match to sell this month - again on another NETWORK SPECIAL. It's like the most logical booking of all time.

Now here's where most of you guys miss the boat. Cesaro is gaining popularity. Big Show needed someone to heat him up to get ready for Brock. Sure, you could pick another guy to heat up Show, but Cesaro is someone the people care about, and in the long run this will help Cesaro. If you actually watch the fights, you will see Cesaro gets put over in commentary for putting up a fight and trying crazy strength moves against Big Show. But he keeps coming up short. Once Show is done putting over Lesnar strong, I would bet you will see the tide magically change in the ongoing Cesaro-Big Show issue. Instead of Cesaro just going over Show in 5 minutes and quickly heading nowhere back weeks ago when this started, you get multiple weeks of telling a story of Cesaro overcoming the odds. Terrible terrible booking, amirite?

Cesaro-Lesnar? Amazing idea. But not for anytime soon. Cesaro isn't there yet. Working with vets like Show, learning how to be a sympathetic babyface will help him get there. It's all about timing.
I think you are WWE's number one apologist. there's a reason their product is so lacklustre and it's not cuz of good booking and good t.v.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Those were 2 different story lines had the first picture have been Orton cashing in I would have responded with

"WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put Daniel back in the title picture."
You never specified that they had to be the same storylines.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:36 PM   #32
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Vic - Rusev? The guy who has been in a joke program with Lana is going to step up and be a legit threat to Lesnar. I don't see it.

Who told you the plan was Bryan v Sheamus? Vince? Paul? Steph? Maybe you should check your sources.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:40 PM   #33
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Those were 2 different story lines had the first picture have been Orton cashing in I would have responded with

"WWE had to be dragged kicking and screaming to put Daniel back in the title picture."
Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the dirt sheet writer BS.

Yeah WWE accidentally built all their storylines to come together at the biggest show of the year with Bryan overcoming huge odds.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:45 PM   #34
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I'm guessing Owens is tied to Ryback for a bit. I could see Cesaro-Owens as the medium term plan. I see them as being in similar spots to HHH and Rock in mid 97. They can be guys who feud with each other for years and years.
I see. Like the never-ending Orton/Sheamus programme that everybody raved about!

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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I think Cena pinning Rollins multiple times is leading to Cena getting a title shot at Survivor Series (a major event). This Kane thing is there is close the book on the angle that put Kane on the shelf, and to create a scenario where it looks like Rollins is a caged rat, but he fights out and wins. Then he's stronger for Cena, and I am guessing he goes over Cena too. Or this is where he finally loses, but it's close and he looks strong in losing.

Gimme a better fight for Lesnar at MSG. You want someone threatening who Lesnar can look impressive dominating. Good luck.

Yeah Daniel Bryan is an example. Internet was all like oh he isn't seen as a top guy, he's being kept at a certain level, the Wyatt feud is a waste, then you watch the road to Mania 30 unfold and what do you know but Bryan beats HHH, Batista, and Orton in one night. Of course the Internet continues to complain about it. But it was a great example of letting WWE play out their long term vision.
So, we have to tread water for a couple of months with programmes that don't hold any interest for the sake of a match that we've already had 3 times in the last month? Yes that's "long-term booking" but it's boring before we get there, and we've already been to the destination 3 times recently.

Also, I think it's pretty much accepted that they weren't building to Bryan winning the World Title at Mania. Doesn't he say as much himself in a WWE produced interview?

Or is "we had Bryan lined up to face Sheamus until Punk walked and Batista failed to get over as a face and we had to scramble to put something together" part of the story?
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:49 PM   #35
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Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the dirt sheet writer BS.

Yeah WWE accidentally built all their storylines to come together at the biggest show of the year with Bryan overcoming huge odds.
Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the company line BS.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:51 PM   #36
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I see. Like the never-ending Orton/Sheamus programme that everybody raved about!



So, we have to tread water for a couple of months with programmes that don't hold any interest for the sake of a match that we've already had 3 times in the last month? Yes that's "long-term booking" but it's boring before we get there, and we've already been to the destination 3 times recently.

Also, I think it's pretty much accepted that they weren't building to Bryan winning the World Title at Mania. Doesn't he say as much himself in a WWE produced interview?

Or is "we had Bryan lined up to face Sheamus until Punk walked and Batista failed to get over as a face and we had to scramble to put something together" part of the story?
I think a lot of ideas were up in the air, but if you watch the TV in the months leading to Mania, the central storyline was HHH driving it home that Bryan was above average but not good enough to be champion. The logical conclusion to that would be Bryan overcoming the odds.

But i guess some guy in catering told one of the dirt sheet writers it was all leading to Sheamus vs Bryan, and that's what we'll believe to be true. But ya know, plans change, just in case we got the story completely wrong.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:52 PM   #37
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Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the dirt sheet writer BS.

Yeah WWE accidentally built all their storylines to come together at the biggest show of the year with Bryan overcoming huge odds.
Well considering he got jobbed in the opener and wasn't even in the rumble it's not exactly a huge stretch. Pretty sure they've so much as admitted it wasn't i the cards, and I've heard Bautista confirm it I'm quite sure.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:53 PM   #38
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Haha. Oh man. I love how you buy into the company line BS.
The company didn't tell me anything. I'm going by what ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

you're believing tabloid level "journalists" who thrive on making up BS to sell subscriptions.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:55 PM   #39
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I understand what you're saying Cynick, regarding having to present short/mid/long term storylines but do you seriously believe that they plan that far ahead? When everything points to the contrary?

But more importantly, you can't sit there and basically tell people that they should enjoy the short term crap in the hope that the long term stuff will be good. How much "good will" can a company/product/TV build up before they pay it off? There's not many TV shows that ask you to sit through 40-120 bours of TV before you get a decent pay-off/progression.
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Old 09-23-2015, 04:55 PM   #40
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Well considering he got jobbed in the opener and wasn't even in the rumble it's not exactly a huge stretch. Pretty sure they've so much as admitted it wasn't i the cards, and I've heard Bautista confirm it I'm quite sure.
He jobbed when now?

Confirm what exactly? The TV storyline that it was originally Bats vs Orton? That's called kayfabe.
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