Triple H Is The King Of Kings
 

On any brand currently, is there anyone who is as good as Triple H overall?

No matter his politicking, the man always delivers. He can be over in the biggest way as either a heel or a face. His mic work is terrific to the point he can have the crowd wanting to rip his guts out or laugh their ass off. He's fun to watch in the ring and has had legendary matches with the biggest and best names in recent memory. He can go technical or hardcore.

When the Attitude Era ended, he carried the WWF. He was the most hated and the best to watch of anyone on the entire roster.

His only rivals are HBK and Undertaker. None of the younger names are even close.

:rofl:

You disagree?

Please say why.

He's not good on the mic?

He hasn't had some of the biggest matches with some of the biggest names in wrestling?

He can't be technical or hardcore?

Please address what you think is wrong.

"His only rivals are HBK and Undertaker. None of the younger names are even close."

In terms of the way they're pushed or overall talent?

If the former, you're right. If the latter... :rofl:

Triple H is better than Taker ever was on the mic.

I never said he was. You insinuated that they were equal or close.

They are. They're both former World Champions, surefire Hall Of Famers, had excellent matches. Talented in multiple areas.

I won't argue which legend is the best because that only leads down to "well, look at this match" or "it was because got a push and nothing more" arguments. And since all that is speculative rumoring, it goes nowhere.

And they're both different kinds of wrestlers and were made stars in different eras. Undertaker was back when Hogan was still originally in the WWE. Feuded with different kinds of stars. Triple H was a big name in the post-Attitude Era and feuded with Rock. Austin and Angle.

Their peaks, in my opinion, are in different times and under different circumstances so it's hard to compare.

Then why ARE you comparing them?

Because it's bound to be brought up.

I made a topic about Triple H being possibly the best name on the roster at the moment.

I'm pretty sure someone would have said "hey. Undertaker is there. He's better."

So, I headed them off at the pass by admitting that both Shawn and Taker are very definitely people you could say are superior to Triple H.

But, in my mind, he's better than any of other talent around right now.

And that's the point of the topic: do you agree or disagree with that? Apparently the first person to respond disagrees with something.

"I won't argue which legend is the best because that only leads down to "well, look at this match" or "it was because got a push and nothing more" arguments. And since all that is speculative rumoring, it goes nowhere."

Except when you go back and see some of the promos and matches in other promotions or even earlier in their WWE careers, then it's not rumors but the way that they're booked.

Eugene, for instance. Great wrestler. Great matches in OVW. You don't see that because he's booked in a retard gimmick.

Booking has more to do with the fact that people aren't getting a chance to shine than anything else.

"And that's the point of the topic: do you agree or disagree with that? Apparently the first person to respond disagrees with something."

Is he the best around? Arguably. Again, it goes back to booking. If other wrestlers were being pushed and used correctly maybe he wouldn't be the dominating yard stick in WWE. Maybe he would be, granted, but the fact is that he was booked ahead of everyone else and was the center of the show when there were and are tons of talent that could be and should be getting pushes and built for the future. He won't be around forever.

Is he entertaining? Most of the time, yes. Has he had phenomenal matches? Absolutely. Is he the be-all and end-all? Absolutely not.

I understand that.

Gimmicks and booking are big things in whether or not a superstar goes to the top.

But some wrestlers are booked right and some are booked wrong.

I don't think booking can be said to be against Triple H or Taker. They've both have had some of the biggest matches at the biggest events. Both ahve main evented WrestleMania and both have been lower on the card at WM.

Perhaps Triple H has had some more success than Taker because of booking but I wouldn't say he's better than Taker.

And I'd say Triple H is better than Cena... Cena is being booked like crazy.

Pretty sure Savio Vega is the be-all-end-all.

Why are we talking about Undertaker again? I thought this was about Triple H and whether he's the best?

Obviously, if you think Triple H is the King of Kings you obviously hold him higher than any other talent.

Because the part you quoted and started talking about booking mentioned Taker.

Instead of waiting for someone's opinion to the contrary, he simply assumed what those opinions would be beforehand. He's a clairvoyant, you see.

But my last two posts were about Triple H, not Undertaker.

No. I'm just not ignorant to other people's opinions.

I've also been on wrestling forums for a long time and I've seen plenty of people say both Undertaker and Shawn are better than Triple H. So, I put that part in there because i didn't want to discuss which Legend is better.

That kinda didn't work.

When I was responding to the bit about booking and Taker, you hadn't made the second post yet. I only saw it after I had posted that reply.

I agree. Crowning the best wrestler of all time is impossible in my opinion.

HBK > HHH > Undertaker < Savio Vega

Even on the current roster I wouldn't call him the best overall performer.

Shawn Michaels is the go-to guy as far as I'm concerned. If Kurt Angle were still around, I'd have to think a little harder about it.

That's what I'm trying to find out.

Who would you say IS the best performer and in what area? All of them?

As far as I'm concerned, currently, the following are the "best" overall and are or can be the leaders of the company.

Triple H
Shawn Michaels
Edge
Punk (Long way away though.)
Kennedy
MVP (Long way away though.)

There is no one best.

Give Johnny Nitro some mic skills and you've got another contender.

I agree. That's the only thing really holding him back as far as I'm concerned.

That and his size but I think WWE is starting to realize that mostly big guy rosters are on the way out.

When you say "any brand" are we talking the tri-brand WWE, or any organization? Because, personally, I would say that Angle outshines him in pretty much every category, if some only a little.

But in the WWE, HHH is actually one of the few wrestlers who matches I will try and pay attention to. The only other wrestlers I care to watch wrestle are Booker T and Edge. I would say that either of those are close contenders, at least for me. Other than that, I just tune in to watch the "entertainment" aspect anymore. Something funny about train wreck storylines to me.

Oh, if we're going over all in the US wrestling business I'd put Angle at the top very top. Everything about him is better than Triple H.

Matt Hardy's been putting on some really good matches lately. It feels weird to type that, seeing as to how I made a thread titled "Fuck Matt Hardy" not too long ago at all, but he's been on fire as of late. I don't know if I could ever buy him as a 'top' guy, but I dunno, it could happen. He could use some mic skills too.

I don't see what the big deal over MVP is. He had great matches with Chris Benoit (which is almost a given). He is just another cocky heel (just like Randy Orton).

Orton could have been huge if he wasn't a prick and could talk better. I think MVP could be what Orton couldn't be.

Orton has very little charisma. He only has "the look", "the smirk", and "the heritage".

What I like most about MVP is how he reacts to EVERYTHING that happens in the ring. Check out his facial reactions to stuff, he's mint.

MVP on the roster is money in the bank. He has all the tools he needs to make it big.

I'm not gonna argue Angle/Triple H. Kurt definitely in ring ability but he doesn't have overall a better list of matches I'd say Plus I'm at a loss as to which is better on the mic. Neither of them thoroughly outclassed the other, though.

Brock has the most raw talent of any of them. Immense strength and speed and he's passed every roid test. Hell, he's stronger and faster than people who do take steroids.

Shame he's such an ass.

Triple H is viewed as the best less because of his ability and more because of who he knew and who put him over. If Foley hadn't made him look just plain brutal, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. He got a rub by association with some big names, and he got put over for being i nwith the right guys, and later married to the right chick.

Is he good? Yes. Is he strong on the mic? Yes. King of Kings? :rofl:

Triple H "carrying" the company is the reason that it's spectacular to see 3.5 ratings these days. No Advancement for the undercard, nepotism, etc. And while he wasn't the only force that caused it, his little ego trip did a sizable amout of the damage. Him "carrying" the company dealt mostly with a lot of people making him look good--Some way better than he actually was.

His reign goes to show anyone can look good if a show is booked around them, and everyone is there to make you look good.

Though Trips is good, he is neither the best on the roster, the King of Kings, or worthy of being on the same level of Michaels. Post-injury HBK is the best fucking thing on the roster, bar none. And it's sad that an 80 year old man is the best thing, but let's face it. We've got a bit of a power vaccuum.

Brock was getting better on the mic too (considering his voice his hard to take seriously). If Brock would have stayed with WWE, he would be THE GUY in wrestling.

Trips is an ass. Benoit was an ass. Angle's an ass. I'll bet you 90% of the roster are asses. I hear Jeff hardy's nice, Foley seemed nice, and I can name a few other people, but they really sem to be the minority.

If you actually believe Lesnar isn't or at least wasn't on the Juice you're a moron.

Lesnar's voice could have worked for him, though. Look at Tyson. Sure, people joke about him for being a crazy motherfucker who talks like a girl, but People respected the man himself anyway, and he was fucking dominant. And well known to people, even those who don't know boxing. Lesnar looked like the real deal.

In fact, the following is from The Smoking Gun:

Brock Lesnar, the World Wrestling Entertainment champion, was once arrested for illegally possessing steroids, though the felony charge against the 26-year-old athlete was dismissed four months after his January 2001 arrest.

May I ask how? What has he done?

Most of the things people attack him with, like most any other prominent wrestlers, are rumors.

Everyone that knew Chris said he was a quiet and gentle person.

No one suspected that and no one is sure why he did it.

Absolutely. You could see the WWE had all of their hopes on the guy and you can't blame them. He had the potential to be one of the best.

I don't believe it because there's zero evidence of it. He didn't look liek Scott Steiner and he's passed tests everywhere.

But Lesnar was great in the ring. He wasn't a promo machine, but he had some impressive matches and was legit over with the fans. As stated, if he didn't have a hissy fit and quit he would be THE Big Thing in wrestling. "Next Big Thing" wasn't just a nickname, I truly believe it was a fact.

Still doesn't take away from the fact that he was arrested for possessing them, whether they were dismissed or not.

Edit: Actually they apparently weren't roids.

I still believe he was taking them though.

But he wasn't caught using them.

He could have been holding them for someone or selling them.

He might have very well have taken them at some point but like the whole thing with Benoit, I wasn't there and I don't truly know what happened. So, it be kinda bold of me to judge.

Still, regardless of roids or not, he could have been one of the best. In fact, relative to the length of his run I would dare put him in my top five best wrestlers of all time.

And yet, there were public reports of domestic abuse for YEARs in his last relationship, as well as in the one prior.

I mean, it's not my fault that his friends turned a blind eye to what had been presented to the fucking public. It was out there, and anyone who claims that a wife beater isn't a dick is a sick little bastard.

Yeah, sweet guy. Considering wrestling attracts assholes in the first place....

He did test positive for HGH products that are illegal. Steroids, no. But that's like saying you're drug free, even though you drink and smoke and do coke.

Brock Lesnar sucked black cock.

That does tend to make you bigger.

To who ever made this thread.

Your arguement might hold up better if Triple H wasn't out hurt for the last six months.

Can I get a source on this?

Sources? Do a search on the wrestling forum. It's been brought up and sourced here a few times, and I'm not doing the homework for someone who blindly asserts Lesnar didn't do steroids.

Well then I won't take the word of a person who insults me and is being ass for no reason.

But I'll tell you this. I don't blindly assert anything. I go by what I read and see and I've never read or saw what you just mentioned.

Not my problem I don't know all like you.

Ummm...Hold on. Did Iinsult you? The only thing I've said is that anyone who believes a wifebeater isn't a dick is a sick little bastard. Do you support wifebeating? If so, yes. Consider yourself insulted. Otherwise, shut the fuck up with your persecution complex.

I'm yet to see any such sources, which is a blind assertion. You ask for sources from me, but don't back up the original assertion. Do your own homework, I even told you how to find it.

And don't pull the "know it all" bullshit. That's just a cop out for people who have no argument, cannot back it up, or cannot handle being wrong. If you really want to go that route, you might as well piss off.

Having searched under "Brock HGH", "Lesnar HGH", "Brock steroids" and "Lesnar steroids" and finally "lesnar growth", I searched all teh topics that seemed relevant and found no links to any articles about him being proven to have used HGH.

Ironic.

You know, after reading this entire thing, only one thing comes to mind...

"MAKE IT OR BREAK IT!"

Edge is the best all around talent right now in the WWE.

I even put him over HBK at this point.

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/mr...os/introz4.jpg
THIS is the future of wrestling right here.

Everyone knows Super Dragon is the future of wrestling.

Still not seeing your evidence, either.

Or you addressing several comments made to you. Oh, right. Dismissed them as rumours. Except you're neither a doctor nor any more in the know about trips, so why should your rumours be any more reliable?

Hmmm?

Steele doesn't understand what irony is.

What do you want me to present evidence on, exactly?

I said I dismiss rumors of politicking. People often say "[insert outcome] was [insert wrestler name]'s politics!" with zero evidence. Anything that benefits Triple H is Triple H or any other big name is the result of them pulling strings. It can't possibly be because of anything else. Hell, some people try to say DDp found success because he lived next to Eric Bischoff and no other reason.

I don't know Trips, sure. So I won't say he's a great human being and I won't say he's an asshole. I don't know him. I don't judge.

As for me needing to be a doctor...why exactly? Don't need years of college to see the reports saying Lesnar tests negative for illegal substances.

I like Trips. Not big on his "prancing around with Michaels" ways, but when he's the cerebral assaisin, he's ownage.

"Our Time" - Defined him. I do like his current music, but thing Our Time was his best entrance theme, he was class back then and still is. Dunno if people "aren't near him". But the WWE roster isn't at it's most entertaining, in the ring, or on the mic.

I await his return so he can pummel Cena, Use his trademark foreign object on Umaga and of course, bring back a classic belt.

We were talking about steroids and Lesnar passing tests on them, so let's start there.

And the steroids information comes from what? You being a doctor?
Which actually goes back to both of the priors. Yeah.

This is rather pointless.

A. You started off saying Lesnar used HGH. You provided zero evidence.
B. You're saying I'm not a doctor. That's totally irrelevant to the point he's been negative on every test for an illegal substance.

A. Yes. in response to an assertion you made that he had tested clean for steroids. Burden to you, thus far. Don't have proof? That's fine.

B. Which you haven't proven. Which I haven't found on any reputable site, and which would by your own "rumours" assertion be rather invalid unless you are actually somehow "in the know." Or do you trust the internet selectively only for some things?

Well, 1A. Steroid tests are mandatory and if he didn't pass them, then he wouldn't have been in the NFL or WWE.
1B. http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...=4141&zoneid=3
"
The following fighters tested negative for all banned substances at K-1 Dynamite: Brock Lesnar"

Recent sure but it's more evidence than you've shown.

It's simple logic. You are given these tests in the WWE, NFL, MMA. Al the places Brock has been. If he was dirty, it would have been reported. He hasn't been. He's been clean.

Mr. Thrilla, while I respect your opinion, I would rather go for the Fuck Matt Hardy Thread, instead....

Trips is the man and if only for this reason


He single handedly put over Motorhead!!!!
His theme is the goods.

1A. Which is convenient, but not accurate. You're assuming everyone tested for steroids pre or even post wellness policy would be ejected. There's visual evidence to the contrary.

1B. Which has what to do with his wrestling career? It's not evidence. You're talking about a guy who's currently off the juice, but ast I knew we were discussing wrestling....

Finally, it's not simple logic. As explained prior. I mean, you can claim simple logic, but again, you're making a lot of sloppy assessments.

Beyond that, I've got to ask. Do you think Wifebeating is okay? Either you ducked this entirely, or I missed it. Do you think that the evidence of abuse in the Benoit family makes claims that he was swee tvalid at all? Are you going to continue to support that Benoit was a sweet guy, despite evidence to the contrary? Are you supporting domestic abuse?

:cool:

Go Paul!

Last I checked, I've been talking about Brock Lesnar in general. I've brought up the NFL afterall.

It's still one account of him being clean of illegal substances to yoru zero proof to the contrary.

No.

Only thing I heard about is that she wanted to get a protective order against Chris and then dropped it.

And yes, I do. People who have known and been close to Chris for decades will kinda know something more about him than you or I.

I never said he was a saint.

No.

Irony of the steroid topic? TRIPLE H

Ok enough about steroids, a lot of athletes use them to heal quicker so you can't judge for sure if you don't speak of a specific instance.

Back to Triple H, he knows everything you can possibly know about wrestling in WWE, but then again so do a lot of wrestlers. Nick, you can think Triple H is the King of Kings if you want, after all thats what WWE tells you. But most people around here like to think for themselves.

Triple H bashing isn't nearly as common as it used to be because his in ring work has improved. But he has as many bland matches as anyone else, and the ratio of bland matches to great matches is probably around 1 and 10. Triple H has the skills to be the best, but he is on top and he doesn't have to work like he did when he was trying to get on top.

HBK on the other hand has it in his soul to constantly work as hard as he can, just like he did when nobody knew his name and when he wasn't a headlining act. Actually he got better after he got pushed.

This is all opinion really, who is the best? Thats not really a term you can use in pro wrestling and be serious because this is a fake sport therefore making it subjective, just like asking who the best actor is.

Shawn Michaels is the best then,now, and FOREVER!

And I've encouraged nothing but since the topic began.

I did not make this topic to say "he's the best no matter what you say." I made it to see who others here thought was as good as him.

Which is true. You also said that he's passed tests everywhere. Please, back that up with real evidence. One link of one instance is not everywhere.

And I haven't heard fuck all about Brock passing steroid tests in WWE.

On the other hand, my assertion's back up on the newsboard here and by the AP. There are reports of abuse by Benoit going back to like, 2002. Some of us already knew he was abusing his wife before this murder/suicide deal took place.

You can't say "his friends knew him better." All we need to know is that he was abusive.

Another weak argument.
Except, of course, dismissing anything that has to do with him politicking, along with anything inconvenient. Didn't touch the ratings, or the power vaccuum, or people constantly putting him over.

.Bringing up Triple H politicking is baseless rumors.

I dismiss anything unproven. Like everything you say.

One link and proof is better than none. I'm still waiting on you as you were the first person to beg for proof while providing none yourself.

I can say his friends know him better. That's the truth.

lesnar won the njcaa national championship at 197 in junior college and the next year at minnesota he was wrestling 285 and he just happened to be at that weight limit and was even cutting to make 285 his senior year. Oh and he had almost no body fat on him. Now you can believe all you want that he didnt do anything but I can tell you as a college wrestler now, that someone who is as talented as Lesnar will not be tested by their own school, and if the NCAA tests them the school will make sure he doesnt fail it. Not to mention the testing then was not anywhere near to where it is now. Now I dont think he was on anything while in WWE because he started to put a little fat on and was not nearly as ripped as he was in college. But to say that he didnt is just stupid.

theres no one in the wrestling community (ncaa not wwe) that thinks hes clean. Except minnesota lol

Ask me to put the belt someone when it's go time, and I'll tell you to put it on Trips.

And to say that he did with zero concrete evidence is just stupid.

I dunno where you live but here in America, we have a thing called innocent until proven guilty.

If you walked into a court with that comment you just made, you think you'd have a prayer of proving Brock Lesnar used steroids?

With just that one line from my post? No. But good job at ignorring the whole rest of my post. See here in the states (2007 not 1998 which is when he wrestled) if something went on like him putting on about 80 lbs in muscle in one year, that would be seen as quite strange and it would be looked into heavily. Probably to the point in which there would be a lot of evidence.

If you dont mind me asking, do you think Barry Bonds is on the juice ?

And yet, it's not proven he wasn't on steroids. Not only don't you prove it, you assert it.

Not when it fails to establish your claims as truth. Sorry.

It's a half truth and a poor argument. Fact is, the guy abused his wife. You cannot call him sweet. Sorry. Your argument fails again.

But then, this from the guy who thinks "If he wasn't fired, he couldn't be on steroids!"

Because there ar eno pro sports scandals about that right now. Nothing at all.

Super Dragon is fucking fat.

Well, can you provide a source that says his weight during Junior College? I just read an article and a bio of him and both say he was 285 when he wrestled.

Never heard the 197 pound ranking.

I don't pay attention to baseball so I a) don't know and b) don't care.

At KK: If you ever are kind enough to prove Lesnar used HGH, as you said flatly, I'll be happy to concede. But we've been going in circles for the last page and you haven't yet and I quite frankly don't expect you to.

So Nikkolas, you seem to refuse that it's a possibility, so I have to ask, are you really Brock Lesnar?


Anyway, to see a guy who is 6'3" weigh nearly 300 lbs with 0% body fat, is extremely suspicious, to me at least.

I don't deny it's possible.

Anything is possible in this world and the only person who can truly say if Brock Lesnar used steroids is Brock himself.

But I won't say he used them when there's no concrete proof to it.

If he didn't do 'roids, why didn't he compete in the Olympics?

I have no idea.

I dont need to give you a source look up the history for the Njcaa tornament genius

Then the point of offering "proof" that he's passed steroids tests is?

God, could you be any more predictable?

Yeah yeah. I know. You'll ignore me because you're condoning a guy who beat his wife, and because your shitty hypotheticals don't work out. But still, it had to be said. You can go back to tucking tail now.

All I found were listings of him as a "heavyweight" competitor. Nothing specific about his weight.

Because it's evidence that he didn't do steroids.

Is it 100% accurate and can it be used to say "no. He absolutely positively never used roids. End of story"? No. But it's evidence enough.

Look who's talking.

Found that link to him using HGH yet?

Perhaps you failed flunked first grade.

They don't work out? So the NFL and NCAA don't test for steroids? There's nothing hypothetical there. It's just obvious.

You've lied a few times now. You lied about Lesnar using HGH and you lied about me condoning abuse.

Buzz Sorry, player, that's incorrect.
Sorry, it really isn't. You've failed to back up your claims.

Successfully backed up your claims yet? Sorry mate, the burden's on you for making the assertion. But nice try. Maybe if you deflect long enough, I'll get bored and move on. Prove it.

Wow. You're getting desperate. Are you that hard up for a justification?

You then went on to back up that he was a sweet guy. Perhaps you "failed flunked" the first grade.

Well, among other things for you to chew over:

1. Steroid tests don't read as positive if you have a prescription.
2. If everyone on steroids in sports were fired or released, we wouldn't be having the current scandal going on right now.
3. Prove to me that the NCAA and NFL tested him. I mean, especially with the NFL, they had very little reason to test him. He never made the cut. I mean, that's just "simple logic."

Mostly 1 and 2. 3 is just a minor amusement. You're asking me to take on faith that sports programs will be vigilant against their best interests, and ignoring that they might not even know he was on seroids if he had a scrip.

You've lied a few times. You've claimed he passed every test. And if my HGH claim is a lie because it's not backed up yet, your claims are also lies. You are condoning domestic abuse my defending the notion that someone who hit and later murdered his wife was sweet. Benoit was a fucking monster, and defending him as otherwise is condoning domestic abuse. Further, you fail to take into account that his loved ones are all speaking about a dead guy when you bring up the "well they know him better, and even though his actions are public record, surely that can't mean anything" bullshit.

Domestic violence is all we need to know to know he's not sweet. The fact that he killed his wife and son are gravy for that argument. You continued that assertion, you are silently condoning his actions as such.

So continue lying. Continue dodging the issues. Continue to dismiss that which is inconvenient. Whatever.