Better Wrestler #74
 

After 4 huge victories, Chris Jericho is in his 5th and final round. With a victory here, Jericho moves onto the BW HoF.
To do so, he will have to slay "The Dragon."







3 days.

<SELECT><OPTION selected>Better Wrestler History<OPTION>#1.RVD vs CM Punk (34-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#2.RVD vs Santino Marella (36-4)</OPTION><OPTION>#3.RVD vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (15-23)</OPTION><OPTION>#4."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Tully Blanchard (30-5)</OPTION><OPTION>#5."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Chris Jericho (15-23)</OPTION><OPTION>#6.Chris Jericho vs Brock Lesnar (34-10)</OPTION><OPTION>#7.Chris Jericho vs William Regal (38-14)</OPTION><OPTION>#8.Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (21-23)</OPTION><OPTION>#9.Eddie Guerrero vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (26-7)</OPTION><OPTION>#10.Eddie Geurrero vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (26-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#11.Eddie Guerrero vs Diamond Dallas Page (39-8)</OPTION><OPTION>#12.Eddie Guerrero vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(19-28)</OPTION><OPTION>#13."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (32-13)</OPTION><OPTION>#14."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-10)</OPTION><OPTION>#15."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Sting (36-16)</OPTION><OPTION>#16."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (32-31)</OPTION><OPTION>#17.Hulk Hogan vs John Cena (15-24)<OPTION>#18.John Cena vs Lex Luger (32-6)<OPTION>#19.John Cena vs Ultimate Warrior (29-18)</OPTION><OPTION>#20.John Cena vs Dean Malenko (9-40)</OPTION><OPTION>#21.Dean Malenko vs Billy Kidman (31-7)</OPTION><OPTION>#22.Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon (22-15)</OPTION><OPTION>#23.Dean Malenko vs Taz (15-17)</OPTION><OPTION>#24.Taz vs Sabu (38-2)</OPTION><OPTION>#25.Taz vs Jeff Hardy (25-16)</OPTION><OPTION>#26.Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow (26-12)</OPTION><OPTION>#27.Taz vs Triple H (24-22)</OPTION>><OPTION>#28.Edge vs Christian Cage (22-23)<OPTION>#29.Christian Cage vs Raven (23-22)</OPTION><OPTION>#30.Christian vs Matt Hardy (22-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#31.Christian vs Ted Dibiase (24-25)</OPTION><OPTION>#32.Ted Dibiase vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (16-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#33."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (25-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#34."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs Bob Backlund (26-6)</OPTION><OPTION>#35."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs The Dynamite Kid (26-13)</OPTION><OPTION>#36."Rowdy Roddy Piper vs Ric Flair (16-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#37.Ric Flair vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (19-17)</OPTION><OPTION>#38.Ric Flair vs Andre "The Giant" (28-5)</OPTION><OPTION>#39.Ric Flair vs Triple H (26-11)</OPTION><OPTION>#40.Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (20-26)</OPTION><OPTION>#41.Shawn Michaels vs Jushin "Thunder" Lyger (26-15)</OPTION><OPTION>#42.Shawn Michaels vs Perry Saturn (36-12)<OPTION>#43.Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (29-11)</OPTION><OPTION>#44.Shawn Michaels vs The Rock (28-30)</OPTION><OPTION>#45.The Rock vs Trish Stratus (21-16)</OPTION><OPTION>#46.The Rock vs Lance Storm (22-19)</OPTION><OPTION>#47.The Rock vs Owen Hart (18-12)</OPTION><OPTION>#48.The Rock vs Kurt Angle (5-24)</OPTION><OPTION>#49.Kurt Angle vs Ken Shamrock (36-5)</OPTION><OPTION>#50.Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (23-13)</OPTION><OPTION>#51.Kurt Angle vs "King Kong" Bruiser Brody (20-10)</OPTION><OPTION>#52.Kurt Angle vs Mick Foley (31-6)</OPTION><OPTION>#53.John Morrison vs Braden Walker (36-11)</OPTION><OPTION>#54.John Morrison vs Kofi Kingston (34-5)</OPTION><OPTION>#55.John Morrison vs CM Punk (14-28)</OPTION><OPTION>#56.CM Punk vs Tajiri (28-20)</OPTION><OPTION>#57.CM Punk vs Booker T (24-23)</OPTION><OPTION>#58.CM Punk vs Samoa Joe (53-4)</OPTION><OPTION>#59.CM Punk vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (19-36)</OPTION><OPTION>#60."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Adorable" Adrian Adonis (47-2)</OPTION><OPTION>#61."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Goldberg (49-4)</OPTION><OPTION>#62."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (31-38)</OPTION><OPTION>#63."Mr.Perfect" Curt Hennig vs "Diamond" Dallas Page (51-17)</OPTION><OPTION>#64."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs William Regal (37-18)</OPTION><OPTION>#65."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Brock Lesnar (48-4)</OPTION><OPTION>#66."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Eddie Guerrero (39-40)</OPTION><OPTION>#67. Eddie Guerrero vs Arn Anderson (33-22)</OPTION><OPTION>#68. Eddie Guerrero vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (37-36)</OPTION><OPTION>#69. Eddie Guerrero vs Sting (41-16)</OPTION><OPTION>#70. Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (45-18)</OPTION><OPTION>#71. Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio (63-3)</OPTION><OPTION>#72. Chris Jericho vs Kevin Nash (54-12)</OPTION><OPTION>#73. Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko (39-9)</OPTION></SELECT>

<SELECT><OPTION selected>Better Wrestler Hall of Fame</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin</OPTION><OPTION>Taz</OPTION><OPTION>Kurt Angle</OPTION></SELECT>

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No way this should be fifth round.

Voting Steamboat in protest. Jericho got the easy way in.

Suggest a better 5th rounder? Again, dealing with the best eligible here

dunno who I'd actually vote for but I want Jericho in the HOF so I'll vote Jericho

The other choices were Andre and Hogan. Sure, they're bigger legends, but they didn't stand the chance that Steamboat did.

I don't know how many times I can tell you this, but Jericho is getting the best challengers possible. I assure you.

There isn't that would be at Jericho's level with the rest of the community, but that's because the system is flawed.

ANYONE thinking Steamboat has a chance is ridiculous. Jericho should not be able to just walk in.

Luck of the draw at this point, not popularity.

Jericho, hands down.

And don't get me wrong. You put someone like Morrison up there he shouldn't be put up against guys like The Rock. They should be on an even level with the community (as best as you can gauge).

In my eyes, at least, Steamboat is great but has no chance in hell. This will likely be a blowout.

maybe the problem is that Jericho is just too great

The gap for final rounds should be halved, not every round.

Or stop using main eventers (Lack of a better term here. "Overly popular", maybe?) until things come back around.

Michaels would have easily been on Jericho's level with the community (notice a trend here?). Just as an example.

Very few people stand a chance at Jericho at this point. Last time around there was the BDC-esque "he's just not the same stigma"

At this point, he's arguably the most over wrestler on this site. Stone Cold is really the only real compettition.
Angle has TNA haters.
Rock has "hollywood" haters.
Flair has younger fans who don't identify with his work as much.
Shawn and Bret lose fans from both sides due to Montreal.

At the very least, though, those you listed would have actually had a chance. Unlike Steamboat.

And I'm not a Steamboat mark. Far from it. In fact I'm a pretty big Jericho mark. But he doesn't need this kind of treatment fifth round, he's better than it.

I'm not complaining about him being in the HOF (he deserves it, eventually), I'm complaining about the fact that it's a cakewalk. His entire run were all fucking blowouts. There's a HUGE problem there.

Someone had to face Eddie. You'd be complaining if I put Steamboat up against Eddie and he got in.

It had to be done. Once there is a HoFer the rounds will even out until there are more names eligible.

The only person I would vote for over Jericho is Michaels, and Angle, Austin, and Taz didn't match up with Michaels either. Luck of the draw.

They're all either in the HOF, or not eligible because they LOST.
Jericho beat Eddie. To the victor goes the spoils. Just the way it falls. Write to congress.

I don't think the shortcomings of an internet compettition are worthy of complaint. If you don't like it, again, don't particiapte.
You seem to treat this as some part of life that must meet your standards. Thanks for the protest, but this is hardly a pressing matter.

No, it's not. But neither is you continuing to validate this system. And really, neither is debating anything related to wrestling, but we do it anyway.

Eddie I'll admit was an upset. But Eddie should not have been first round, whether the outcome was the same or not, he seems fifth round, Steamboat is third at best, fourth on a really good day.

Eddie wasn't first round. Eddie was in the 5th round and Jericho beat him.

Eddie wasn't his first round. Jericho was Eddie's 5th round to get into the HOF

jinx! owe me a coke

What it seems like you're saying is "Main eventers will go in no matter what. The jobber rounds will be purposely composed for them to lose, at least until we run out of main eventers".

"Jobber" and "Main eventers" being loose terms here.

Didn't realize that, my bad.

Still doesn't validate all the blowouts.

... so who was the obvious choice he should've put on there?

That's not what we're saying. There is a tiered system though, yes.
It's called seeding. Are you familiar with sports? If a popular guy overthrows the champion in the 5th and final round, he moves on.
When he does, he gets a low seeded pick. There is room for upset, but it is unlikely. From there, the difficulty of the challengers increases, until the 4th and 5th round which are as difficult as possible.

Also, these complaints should have been lodged 70 rounds ago, if at all.

Which this wasn't, because the system is flawed.

They were. No one listened.

I think I brought up bringing the 50 gap down because it would lead to very long dry spells within the first ten, possibly five rounds. They were shot down because we were doing things "Destor's Way" and he had a way around it.

Well Dest, what's your way around this? Because exactly what I said would happen, did.

If Jericho didn't face Eddie you'd complain about him "getting it easy"

This is just the way it falls. The system works quite well. If it was at our own discretion we could just bring up any wrestler to re-challenge at any time.
Would that be less flawed? Absolutely not. That would be far more unfair. It would lead to more complaints and a less consistent system.

We'd just be bringing back guys at will. There needs to be a limit to rechallenge, and 50 is fair because anything less it too soon.
Jericho was able to rechallenge when he did, and it worked out. Oh well.

The Dragon! Jericho is my favorite modern wrestler, but I have to go with Steamboat. Steamboat has had some spectacular moments, while Jericho has had a more consistant level of great moments, hopefully this will be a close, exciting fight to the HOF for Jericho and not a blow out.

If it wasn't for Undertaker and HBM, Steamboat would be the name synonomous with this year's Wrestlemania. Anyone remember Jericho at WM18?? nope. :p

1. Depends on who he would face. Steamboat is no where near Jericho's level in terms of popularity, which is how the majority of people vote (define wrestler).

2. 50 is too high, especially within the first 200 rounds or so. Once we pass 200, yeah, things will even out, but only because the majority of anyone truly worth a fuck would be in the HOF.

No, I don't want you to be able to bring back guys at will, that's ridiculous. But so is something like this happening.

Love Steamboat, and although I didn't get to see his work live, I have familiarized myself with it in recent months. He was great, and his past three showings have been awesome, but I don't know that I can pick him over Jericho.

Maybe it's because I grew up watching Jericho and that same "style," or maybe it's because Jericho really is better. In my opinion, Jericho amazing in the ring and on the mic, and he has entertained me like few others.

Tougher than I originally thought, but Jericho gets my vote.

Y2J gets my vote.

By the way, if this is not truly a blow out I will admit to being wrong about Steamboat. But I'm expecting at least a 20 vote gap.

True.

Which goes back to the voting logic. It's usually flavor of the month. But that's unavoidable.

The system that has been in place has seen dozens upon dozens of popular mainstream wrestlers enter the compettition.
Through the way it is run, and the system in place the only people to reach the HoF have been Stone Cold, Angle, Taz and potentially Chris Jericho.
Is it a coincidence that those are the most over guys on TPWW, and have been for quite some time?
I think it's giving a pretty accurate measurement.

Shawn Michaels, Flair, and The Rock fell in what was the best back and forth voting in the competitions history. They will all re-challenge, but not too soon, or at the whim of me and Destor.
There has to be some order, or we could just have Shawn Michaels, or whomever, rechallenge anytime we want.

Steamboat is very good, but Jericho is the man

Shawn Michaels is a given for the HOF. Jericho is a given. Flair, Rock, Taker. Guys like these should go straight to a "Default" HOF. Not because they SHOULD get an automatic pass, but because you're just delaying the inevitable.

I had a hard time with this one. In terms of mic work, Jericho hands down. In terms of ring work, two different eras. Steamboat has always delivered the goods and proved again last night that he does still have it. Jericho is certainly no stranger to skill.

Voted for Steamboat. I really don't have a great decisive reason why. Both men are great and Jericho will be a HoFer one day.

Yes, there are guys in the next tier that this can be said for and so on, but with so many top-tier talent it's really unfair and we won't truly have a TPWW HOF for years, because, again, you're just delaying the inevitable with the obvious choices.

I think I suggested this, too, now that I think about it.

The system may not be flawless, but I think it's pretty fair. Like I said, there has to be a system or it would be absolutely unfair.
The system of limiting the frequency of rechallenge to a set round limit is crucial. This needs to be done so everyone is held to the same limit.

The only real complaint I can see is "50 is too long." Fair enough. Perhaps you may feel that 30, or 20 would be more fair?
It wouldn't make much difference, other than the turnover would be quicker and more HoFers would be crowned.

Still, situations like this would come up. It's like any compettition. Should the NFL change their scheduling system because disgruntled fans occasionally complain that a team had an easier schedule than theirs?

Should professional sports leagues change their systems because teams with better records miss the playoffs, while teams with worse records get in, due to the division system?
No. The truth is, there are "weaknesses" to any system. But there must be a system, and it is fair as long as it applies to all the compettitors. It does in this case.

Jericho is subject to the same rules and treatment as everyone else. He just is very over and entered at an oppurtune time.

Are you seriously comparing an internet forum to a professional sports league? Something run by, what, at least 20 people (at the highest) vs 2? That's just ridiculous.

50 is too long. This has been known from the beginning. Still, you didn't budge, and now Jericho walks right in.

I'm not comparing it to a sports league in terms of importance or anything. Talk about taking me out of context.

I'm comparing them in terms of being competitions with systems in place.

But your system has a huge hole.

Maybe if you sprinkled the "obvious" choices out a bit instead of blitzing them every ten rounds or so it wouldn't be so bad. But apparently that would disrupt your system that you put in place that had complaints from the beginning. And they were valid complaints.

Anyone that votes for Jericho doesn't know what Steamboat meant to wrestling, which is probabaly is what is going to happen since only a few people here have seen his work.

Ric Flair has said that steamboat is the greatest wrestler ever. He was extremely over in the eighties, more so than Jericho ever was, even in 2000. Plus his ring work is second to none.

Steamboat > 99.99% of wrestlers (this includes Jericho)

P.S.

The rules stand.


10-8 Jericho.

Test4champ is back. Damn.

People who use sock accounts to vote in these polls are huge fags.

people actually do that?

It's been known to happen, especially in matches that are closely contested

http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funn...ocks-12922.jpg

If Jericho hadn't returned, I would be voting for Steamboat all ther way.... but 2009/09 Jericho is enough to push him over the Dragon...

Jericho can be a great heel and a great face.
Ricky can be a great face.

Jericho is gonna waltz in.


Not like this, dammit not like this!

Can we talk about how awesome the pictures I chose are?

Can we talk about how awesome the musical accompaniment is?

Lets be positive!

I can't see the pics or hear the music because I am on page two.

I thought the pictures and music were impeccable, sir.

:y:

100 replies per page

http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/PhilipR...ages/Y2J01.jpghttp://psxmedia.ign.com/media/news2/...ericho_bio.jpghttp://slam.canoe.ca/WrestlingImagesJ/jericho_chyna.jpg
http://wa1.images.onesite.com/fans.w...undisputed.jpg

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http://rickythedragonsteamboat.com/g...ickydragon.jpg
http://www.ugo.com/sports/best-techn...-steamboat.jpg http://pics.livejournal.com/nightwin...n/pic/001bkk7w
http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrest.../steamboat.jpg

http://pics.livejournal.com/nightwin...n/pic/001bkk7w

Where'd you get that belt, Ricky? That's not yours.

Oh my god, just shut the fuck up!

Steamboat isn't miles behind Jericho, in fact, I put Steamboat over Jericho. I've never seen a big Jericho match I didn't enjoy, but Steamboat/Savage and his fued with flair put him up there as one of the best of all time. Especially as it was all happening while Jericho was still going to be Irvine (or whatever his real name is) for another decade.

So just pick who you prefer, give a couple of reasons why and then jog on into the mist and find something worth debating to debate.

'Jericho is going to steamroll this one, although I am a huge Jericho mark'

Smart words. Thank god this has ceased.

Chris Jericho HOF Baby!!!

I like Steamboat, but didn't grow up with his glory days, so most of what I've seen are basically his better matches with Flair, Savage, Luger etc.

I voted Steamboat just because so many people were complaining. Really rooting for Jericho though.

I think he's arguing that Jericho is miles ahead of Steamboat in the eyes of the smarks, and there's no arguing that fact really. It isn't really a competitive matchup.

But what does it matter? The format will eventually get all the deserving people into the HOF. You don't change the format of an opinion poll just to juxtapose the opinions. especially since it would technically invalidate the last 24 polls.

So TPWW has a younger crowd of wrestling fans, when you look back at the previous results, you will see this and it will become evident of what biases may have swayed votes.

It just was not worth that much of a major fuss. Whats wrong with allowing for variables?

Watching last Wrestlemania again has made me go for Steamboat.

Steamboat is trailing by nine. I think at this stage in the voting this validates the choice of his 5th round placement, especially considering how over Jericho is on this board. Beyond that it's a topical match which is a plus.

Hush it naysayers.

too right dude.

I was wrong.

About Steamboat.

System is still flawed.

Yeah, but factor in all of the "I'm voting Steamboat because of all the complaints" votes.

It doesn't look like too many socks dropped cast their ballots yet...

The system is fine

No it isn't. Even Jeritron agreed to an extent.

I agreed that at some point it may need to be finite, but its fine as it is now

You said you would revise the rules. :foc:

I said at some point the competition may have to end and enter a second volume, in which rules revising would be an option.
But since its got to stay consistent it isn't now

Which indicates that there is, indeed, something wrong with the system. Otherwise it wouldn't need revising.

Though I did agree that this volume's rules can't be changed, it's too far in.

What is the isasue you have with the game Xero. Be clear as I wont acknowledge this again. So make it count.

I've covered it in the thread...

The 50 rule was way too big. I've said that from the beginning. I knew that, unless you fairly put matches up instead of throwing every main event/popular wrestler up there as soon as possible things were going to get clogged.

You've gone 75 rounds. You used the majority of the populars within the first 50. This is not "Better Main Eventer", this is "better wrestler". Mid carders should have just as much a chance to get into the hall of fame as the main eventers (I'm using these terms loosely). They haven't, you've put them in blowouts.

You made the gap too big and didn't use enough low card/not ultra popular talent in a way that they would have had a chance. You probably have 500 wrestlers you could draw from TPWW would know yet you've, for the most part, either pissed them away or put the obvious guys up there first.

Jeritron's idea will resolve this issue, though, so it's all moot at this point anyway (aside from the gap, that has to come down next volume).

But I said it from the beginning. And I was right, the well has run dry because you blew your load way too early.

I agree with nothing you've said.

I dont want anyone in the HoF. Let alone midcarders. If TpWW wants those guys in they can fight for them.

For the record though, midcarders will get their chance to get in this in due time. But Im not rooting for them.

I'm shocked we've been able to keep this freash and interesting for 75 editions. That in it's self is impressive to me. So whatever.

FTR: Once we get either 16 or 32 guys in the HoF we will end better wrestler and have the Best Wrestler TOurny. I dunno if I've said this on the board before but that's what we're building toward.

So yeah, rules stay and I wont be reading any complaints from here on.

Thats what I said, that once a certain amount of guys are in the Hall, it should end.

Then, and only then, a new competition can start.

I never said anything about changing the current competition. You're using what I said out of context Xero.

Actually I'm not. I said that I agreed with you about the rules being changed now. Just wasn't clear at first.