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NormanSmiley 09-02-2011 06:41 PM
scott hall/1996 question
 
watching snippets of LOW rountable that nash did, hearing about how the deal for Hall started and sting money (750k/year) made me wonder a couple things.

in Bischoff's mind, or yours, was Hall a quality talent in the ring to earn that kind of pay or was he the only free agent available at the time to throw money at?

were hall's drinking problems known in the wrestling world at that time to make him a risky sign?

CSL 09-02-2011 06:55 PM
Hall was one of the biggest stars in wrestling back then as Razor Ramon as well as being an excellent "worker", the impact he stood to (and did wind up) making (along with Nash) was more than worth the money. WCW only really had Hogan, Savage, Sting and Flair who you could consider as being "bigger" than them. WCW had already started throwing money at guys when they signed Hogan and Savage but it was when Nash and Hall jumped and the story around it that people really started to take them seriously. And he neither he nor Nash were free agents, if they could have got the same deal with Vince, I'm pretty sure they'd have stayed.

NormanSmiley 09-02-2011 07:06 PM
nash has said he told vince match it and i will stay but vince said he couldnt cause he would have to for multiple other guys.

bischoff has openly said hall was the only nwo guy who "could" work. and thats only when he wanted to which was quote 2% of the time. wondering if this was more a case of page had bischoff's ear alot and sold him on hall being no problem when maybe some people had to know his demons

captaincharismark 09-02-2011 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL (Post 3619719)
Hall was one of the biggest stars in wrestling back then as Razor Ramon as well as being an excellent "worker", the impact he stood to (and did wind up) making (along with Nash) was more than worth the money. WCW only really had Hogan, Savage, Sting and Flair who you could consider as being "bigger" than them. WCW had already started throwing money at guys when they signed Hogan and Savage but it was when Nash and Hall jumped and the story around it that people really started to take them seriously. And he neither he nor Nash were free agents, if they could have got the same deal with Vince, I'm pretty sure they'd have stayed.
That's pretty much dead on, which begs the question....why didn't WCW use Hall better? Surely Hall as WCW Champion could be no worse than the likes of Luger, Hogan, or Nash. Not to mention the awesome David Arquette:n:

CSL 09-02-2011 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanSmiley (Post 3619727)
nash has said he told vince match it and i will stay but vince said he couldnt cause he would have to for multiple other guys.

bischoff has openly said hall was the only nwo guy who "could" work. and thats only when he wanted to which was quote 2% of the time. wondering if this was more a case of page had bischoff's ear alot and sold him on hall being no problem when maybe some people had to know his demons
I think it's simply a case of Vince and his "crew" being able to control his talent, guys that work there know who the boss is and have a million guys watching out for them. I've heard/read a million Kliq road stories involving heavy partying and drug use from when they were working for WWF/E, the demons were always there it's just in WCW he had the money and lack of discipline from a guy who was pretty much left on his own to run WCW to pretty much "run wild"/exacerbate things to crazy levels. I'd take a guess that Scott Hall wouldn't be in half the state he's in now had he never left Vince, by the time he went back he was a "fully consumed" by his "demons".

CSL 09-02-2011 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincharismark (Post 3619731)
That's pretty much dead on, which begs the question....why didn't WCW use Hall better? Surely Hall as WCW Champion could be no worse than the likes of Luger, Hogan, or Nash. Not to mention the awesome David Arquette:n:
as Hall himself has always said, he simply didn't need it. I'm sure he could have "politicked" his way into the spot at least once with his notorious "skills" in that department and his friends in high places but I just don't think it was too high on his list of concerns, especially with his "favoured nations" deal. He was earning as much as anybody in WCW and had a very tidy spot without the burden of being "the top guy". Not to keep mentioning the staying with Vince thing but I think maybe he'd have been more inclined/was in a better setting to potentially have gone to the very "top" had he stayed there.

Nicky Fives 09-02-2011 07:25 PM
Hogan wouldn't allow anyone to get over him, depsite it being one of his better friends..... that's the way I've always seen it.....

CSL 09-02-2011 07:33 PM
the same Hogan that put Goldberg over clean in the middle providing that last push for William to mega-stardom? and jobbed to Sting in the main event of the PPV with the greatest slow-burn build possibly in wrestling history and made Sting look like a monster just about every time they encountered each other for over a year (only for WCW to drop the ball right at the very last hurdle)? Hogan was/is an absolute master at maximizing his value to his employees and protecting his spot when looking out for only himself at times but he's done plenty of "business" and has some ridiculous/clueless things thrown at him by the internet

SuperSlim 09-02-2011 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL (Post 3619757)
the same Hogan that put Goldberg over clean in the middle providing that last push for William to mega-stardom? and jobbed to Sting in the main event of the PPV with the greatest slow-burn build possibly in wrestling history and made Sting look like a monster just about every time they encountered each other for over a year (only for WCW to drop the ball right at the very last hurdle)? Hogan was/is an absolute master at maximizing his value to his employees and protecting his spot when looking out for only himself at times but he's done plenty of "business" and has some ridiculous/clueless things thrown at him by the internet
I was just curious if that was sarcasm or if you were being for real about that.

CSL 09-02-2011 09:08 PM
why would that be sarcasm?

Mr. JL 09-02-2011 09:41 PM
I am sure Hall had his problems in 1996 but back then he was still showing up for work and delivering what he needed to in the ring, so there probably was little-to-no concern over his partying ways.

It was only later when he was already signed and in WCW that he started to no-show or show up so so fucked that he couldn't deliver in the ring.

Aguakate 09-02-2011 09:45 PM
I'm pretty sure Vince had to have seen SOMETHING, a warning sign, about Scott Hall that made him decide to not give him the WWF Title.

Scott Hall as Razor Ramon was MAD OVER his entire time in the WWF, to the point that his feuds over the Intercontinental Title with HBK, Diesel and Jeff Jarrett, among others, were more popular with fans than feuds over the WWF Title, at times.

SuperSlim 09-02-2011 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL (Post 3619817)
why would that be sarcasm?
Well... he put over Goldie cause there were executives or something there and they needed big ratings that show and that would be a big way for ratings... for him to lose to Goldie clean... plus it'd improve his image with guys in back that he is a "team player"

The Hogan/Sting... yeah the feud made Sting look good but the match was beyond piss poor and to say WCW dropped the ball on it... I'd say it was more in the hands of Hogan wanting to protect himself and his standing with the crappy ending and all that followed aftewards... but lets not also forget...

Nash ended Goldie's winning streak at Starrcade and who delivered the finger poke of doom to win the WCW title again? Hogan?

Hogan is only in business for Hogan and nobody else but Hogan. He could careless about anybody unless he knows that losing to that person is going to help HIS image then he'll work with them and do the job. Hogan is a leech.

Dante69 09-02-2011 11:27 PM
Scott Hall is a legend of the business

Tom Guycott 09-02-2011 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate (Post 3619837)
I'm pretty sure Vince had to have seen SOMETHING, a warning sign, about Scott Hall that made him decide to not give him the WWF Title.
Jeff Hardy became World Champion. More than once. This statement is invalid.

Hall seems to be one of those guys that was in the right guy in the right place at almost the right time in WWE. Hall really had all the tools: a marketable look/gimmick, decent ringwork, and goddamn charisma for days. Remember, this is the company that pushed Luger hardcore, and he didn't have half the "it" factor of connecting to the crowd that Hall did, even with the forced Lex Express business.

It could be as simple as Vince didn't really see him as "that guy" at the time and just overlooked him, as he's been noted to do with various others that seem to be overqualified for the top spot.

Aguakate 09-03-2011 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott (Post 3619955)
Jeff Hardy became World Champion. More than once. This statement is invalid.

Hall seems to be one of those guys that was in the right guy in the right place at almost the right time in WWE. Hall really had all the tools: a marketable look/gimmick, decent ringwork, and goddamn charisma for days. Remember, this is the company that pushed Luger hardcore, and he didn't have half the "it" factor of connecting to the crowd that Hall did, even with the forced Lex Express business.

It could be as simple as Vince didn't really see him as "that guy" at the time and just overlooked him, as he's been noted to do with various others that seem to be overqualified for the top spot.

Didn't know Vince McMahon posted on here under the name "Tom Guycott".

Tom Guycott 09-03-2011 03:49 AM
Uh... I guess my "Shane McMahon 4 Hall of Fame" campaign doesn't help disguise it, huh?

Fox 09-03-2011 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott (Post 3619955)
Jeff Hardy became World Champion. More than once. This statement is invalid.

Hall seems to be one of those guys that was in the right guy in the right place at almost the right time in WWE. Hall really had all the tools: a marketable look/gimmick, decent ringwork, and goddamn charisma for days. Remember, this is the company that pushed Luger hardcore, and he didn't have half the "it" factor of connecting to the crowd that Hall did, even with the forced Lex Express business.

It could be as simple as Vince didn't really see him as "that guy" at the time and just overlooked him, as he's been noted to do with various others that seem to be overqualified for the top spot.
In Jeff's defense, I'd like to point out that he only became World Champion after he'd been clean for a year.

Sonofanarchy 09-03-2011 04:36 PM
Do they need to send out (or ever) guys to make sure the dont do drugs and party to much like the record companies do for Rockstars...

You'd think they protect their investments with their Hardys and RVDs(although i guess nobody was watching RVD)


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