Who are some good up and comers (noid need not apply)
 

I like Noid.

I like what I've seen of Ortiz.

Also, not really sure if he's an up an comer, but I've been enjoying Kofi "Would you like to come in for some Hot Coffee" Kingston in what I've seen of him.

ooooooooooo, no KK! Dont get fooled into the Ortiz darkside!

I hate him so much!



Honestly I think DJ gabriel will have a nice run once he gets a new gimmick.

The guy has the WWE look, seems to be great in the ring, and can play a character (even if it sucks)

Kofi Kingston is the only one really. Although that Zolph Dinger or whatever who wrestled Dave on RAW was okay.....

I'm biased towards DJ Gabriel thus far, stupid gimmick, interesting matches.

BTW, I love stupid gimmicks

Generally speaking I think all the up and comers have already been mentioned

I guess Scotty Goldmen, but they never seem to use him on TV now, only wwe.com

I think Seamus O'Shaunessy will turn heads when he gets the call.

DJ Gabriel is doing well. A little direction, and he will be doing better than well.

For women you would expect to be useless, The Bella Twins border onto "almost not useless" areas. Their stuff on SmackDown! has been pretty damn watchable, but then again, they are working with Victoria and Natalya. Maryse is also doing well for a Diva Search pick-up.

Say what you will about Ricky Ortiz, but the man is damn charismatic, a good speaker and not horrendous in the ring. He seems to be getting pushed fairly consistently, too.

From TNA, the only one I can think of is Consequences Creed.

Jack Swagger, though I hate his name.

I would pee my pants for a week or two if WWE signed on El Generico.
And I would watch TNA if they signed El Generico.



Not sure which one is worse.....
But still, OLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

El Generico would actually fit in really well to one of the big two. Yeah, he's little, but his gimmick alone is quirky enough to get him to stand out. There's no real reason he couldn't go on an upset streak and become the lovable dork luchador that people love to cheer.

TNA really needs to breathe life into their X-Division. Signing guys like Generico, Super Crazy and Paul London would be a great step forward for that. It'd just feel so much fresher.

And I know BDC wouldn't be counting this guy because he's from ROH, but he's been on PPV a few times, so I'm going to mention him: Tyler Black is meant to be tearing things up in ROH. Many have labeled him their "Next World Champ!".

I think the fact that you like him is more likely a deterrent than the fact that he's in RoH. I mean, you didn't even need to make a motive up to slam BDC there. You could have simply gone with the "Things Noid likes suck" theory, and it would have been a legit BDC opinion. This? Looks more like a strawman.

Kane Knight. Will you please explain "strawman" to me? Thank you.

I have to disagree, I think Creed sucks. His character is damn annoying and I really don't think he's that great in the ring. So TNA really has no up and comers.

Ziggler is definitely on his way to big things; Knox is on his way to kicking more ass and making kids cry; Bourne (if he can still be called an up and comer) was starting to really get over before he went down. I really think Bourne will get gold when he leaves ECW. I've never seen Ricky Ortiz wrestle, so I can't judge him. What I've seen of Swagger interests me. He's a good heel and I enjoy his ring work. DJ Gabriel's gimmick is lame, but he could be good given a decent character.

And this.

A strawman is when you credit someone with an opinion or argument that they don't have for the sake of having a credible argument of your own. If someone makes a valid point and you can't debate it, the strawman solution would be to pretend they said something else, something that's easier to argue against. While it generally only applies to actual debates or arguments, Kane Knight lives in an argument, so it's possible for everyone to setup strawmen all the time.

That being said, this:

...could qualify as a strawman, unless BDC has actually stated at some point that he quite literally does not like guys explicitly for being in ROH. It's making up a feeling and crediting it to BDC, when BDC may not have actually expressed said point, solely for the purpose of slamming on BDC. For all I know, BDC could have said it and KK could be wrong, or my interpretation of which point is the strawman could be wrong--I just thought I'd throw it out there since, if I were a betting man, I'd be money that there's going to be a lot less actual explanation in the next few posts and alot more... uh... the opposite of that. Especially from Kane Knight.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME



I'M BACK BABY




Oh, and I highly approve of this El Generico fellow.

Thank you, sir. I have added to your TPWW reputation for explaining this to me. Just wanted to know what it was that KK falls back on in 90% of his arguements.

DJ Gabriel without a doubt. I've been heaping praise on Knox and Swagger for a while.

Ricky Ortiz needs to die.

A guy in ROH with size, who is a decent wrestler and would actually have a shot in the WWE is Erick Stevens.

LOL

From what I've seen so far (and it hasn't been much).

-Jack Swagger
-Dolph Ziggler

I think Swagger's got some great potential. He's got very good charisma from what I've seen. I haven't seen the guy wrestle...but if he's even slightly decent...then I think he's got a serious shot of progressing beyond the IC/US division.

-Dolph Ziggler's got great charisma as well, but I'm not sure if I see him progressing beyond the IC/US division. He comes across as too goofy. Unless his personna is altered at some point, the WWE usually do NOT push 'goofy' guys as main-eventers.

-Unless Mike Knox shows decent and/or UNIQUE wrestling ability (I don't know what his wrestling ability is like), then I can't see him progressing beyond the IC/US division. He could just end up being another Umaga (i.e. a hoss that is used to get up-and-comers over).


THE WWE NEEDS TO PUSH ORTON TO THE MOON.

Orton is horrible, but not as horrible as he was a couple of years ago. I have no clue why, but I can see Cody Rhodes being an awesome main event heel in 4 or 5 years

YES!

A Noid post, illustrated.

Kane Knight is a lot like a scarecrow, only less threatening and more annoying.

I don't know if I believe in up and comers. In a current WWE environment, you're either a groomed champion from your first match (Orton, Cena), or a veteran.
Anyone who "rises up the ranks" does so as part of a plan, or they've been a part of the main event since the 90s.
Up and coming means you're either being steadily pushed up through the US title towards the royal rumble and eventual Wrestlemania main event, or you're working a fued to pass the time until your next reign.

Other "up and comers" that gain fan support and are successful on their own merit and not as part of a plan, are pushed but not to the moon. So they're not really up and coming. They're up and staying. They peak at a transitional title reign, if that, and do their thing with all their fan support in the midcard.

TNA is kind of the same.

ROH also has a ton of what would be considered up and comers in the business, but since they won't go anywhere in either of the televised promotions they aren't really up and coming.

I do hate Ortiz.

I think the only people in ROH right now who have a legit shot of doing anything in WWE are Eric Stevens, as you said, Claudio, and Nigel. I think sooner or later Danielson will be signed, but nothing will ever come of it, and he'll be released. I could see Jimmy Jacobs getting signed as a manager at some point, if WWE had a need for someone like him.

I think Bourne is going to end up doing well in the E, as long as he doesn't get injured a lot.

Oh, would you fuck off. BDC has said in the past that he doesn't take ROH seriously. I seriously doubt he would consider someone who works in ROH to have had "screen matches" either. If you couldn't have seen BDC saying "Three people watch ROH. It doest count" then you're just being ridiculous.

You're just embarrassing us now.

Oh James, your crush on me is ever so flattering. :kiss:

Yes, you're the one who resorts to strawmen to make even the simplest of arguments, and I'm the embarrassing one.

I don't really fall back on it. I just don't see why I have to address counter arguments you and Noid make when they don't counter anything I said. If you have to resort strawman arguments to try and counter what I said, I'm not the one "falling back."

Also...MAG! *humps your leg*

Oh, I never want to see Eric Stevens in WWE, because I hate him. Nigel on the other hand, would be amazing. He's better than Burchill, has a good look, and can work a mic really well.

Yeah, it was out of context, but I don't think that's Noid's fault. I'm not sure he knows the context in the first place. Or what context is.

Which brings me to another term I tend to use a lot. "Quote Mining." I'm assuming most of you know what it means, and Narc knows how to find a dictionary.

Braden Walker.