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Old 12-05-2008, 04:22 PM   #1
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Who are some good up and comers (noid need not apply)
So who is actaully a good up and coming wrestler now a days with a solid set of on screen matches? I know guys like Knox, Ziggler, and Swagger are getting praise from certain posters, but are there any guys that have slipped under the radar? Anyone in TNA.

Noid, stay out.
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:38 PM   #2
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I like Noid.
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:46 PM   #3
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I like what I've seen of Ortiz.
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
I like what I've seen of Ortiz.
ooooooooooo, no KK! Dont get fooled into the Ortiz darkside!

I hate him so much!



Honestly I think DJ gabriel will have a nice run once he gets a new gimmick.

The guy has the WWE look, seems to be great in the ring, and can play a character (even if it sucks)
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:06 PM   #5
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Also, not really sure if he's an up an comer, but I've been enjoying Kofi "Would you like to come in for some Hot Coffee" Kingston in what I've seen of him.
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:42 PM   #6
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Kofi Kingston is the only one really. Although that Zolph Dinger or whatever who wrestled Dave on RAW was okay.....
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:42 PM   #7
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I'm biased towards DJ Gabriel thus far, stupid gimmick, interesting matches.

BTW, I love stupid gimmicks

Generally speaking I think all the up and comers have already been mentioned
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:48 PM   #8
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Kofi isn't really an up and comer anymore.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:18 PM   #9
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I guess Scotty Goldmen, but they never seem to use him on TV now, only wwe.com
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:28 PM   #10
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I think Seamus O'Shaunessy will turn heads when he gets the call.
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:55 PM   #11
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DJ Gabriel is doing well. A little direction, and he will be doing better than well.

For women you would expect to be useless, The Bella Twins border onto "almost not useless" areas. Their stuff on SmackDown! has been pretty damn watchable, but then again, they are working with Victoria and Natalya. Maryse is also doing well for a Diva Search pick-up.

Say what you will about Ricky Ortiz, but the man is damn charismatic, a good speaker and not horrendous in the ring. He seems to be getting pushed fairly consistently, too.

From TNA, the only one I can think of is Consequences Creed.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
From TNA, the only one I can think of is Consequences Creed.
I have to disagree, I think Creed sucks. His character is damn annoying and I really don't think he's that great in the ring. So TNA really has no up and comers.

Ziggler is definitely on his way to big things; Knox is on his way to kicking more ass and making kids cry; Bourne (if he can still be called an up and comer) was starting to really get over before he went down. I really think Bourne will get gold when he leaves ECW. I've never seen Ricky Ortiz wrestle, so I can't judge him. What I've seen of Swagger interests me. He's a good heel and I enjoy his ring work. DJ Gabriel's gimmick is lame, but he could be good given a decent character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
I think Seamus O'Shaunessy will turn heads when he gets the call.
And this.
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:03 AM   #13
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Jack Swagger, though I hate his name.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:30 AM   #14
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I would pee my pants for a week or two if WWE signed on El Generico.
And I would watch TNA if they signed El Generico.



Not sure which one is worse.....
But still, OLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:36 AM   #15
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El Generico would actually fit in really well to one of the big two. Yeah, he's little, but his gimmick alone is quirky enough to get him to stand out. There's no real reason he couldn't go on an upset streak and become the lovable dork luchador that people love to cheer.

TNA really needs to breathe life into their X-Division. Signing guys like Generico, Super Crazy and Paul London would be a great step forward for that. It'd just feel so much fresher.

And I know BDC wouldn't be counting this guy because he's from ROH, but he's been on PPV a few times, so I'm going to mention him: Tyler Black is meant to be tearing things up in ROH. Many have labeled him their "Next World Champ!".
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
And I know BDC wouldn't be counting this guy because he's from ROH, but he's been on PPV a few times, so I'm going to mention him: Tyler Black is meant to be tearing things up in ROH. Many have labeled him their "Next World Champ!".
I think the fact that you like him is more likely a deterrent than the fact that he's in RoH. I mean, you didn't even need to make a motive up to slam BDC there. You could have simply gone with the "Things Noid likes suck" theory, and it would have been a legit BDC opinion. This? Looks more like a strawman.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .44 Magdalene View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
And I know BDC wouldn't be counting this guy because he's from ROH
...could qualify as a strawman, unless BDC has actually stated at some point that he quite literally does not like guys explicitly for being in ROH. It's making up a feeling and crediting it to BDC, when BDC may not have actually expressed said point, solely for the purpose of slamming on BDC. For all I know, BDC could have said it and KK could be wrong, or my interpretation of which point is the strawman could be wrong--I just thought I'd throw it out there since, if I were a betting man, I'd be money that there's going to be a lot less actual explanation in the next few posts and alot more... uh... the opposite of that. Especially from Kane Knight.
Correct, this is a starw man. I never said I'm not counting somone for being from RoH. I think RoH is over hyped, but indy guys got to work somewhere before they get picked up. I have said that people working in RoH are off my radar because it isn't worth my time to keep up with RoH on top of WWE and TNA.

Also, Kane Knight is more correct, anyone that noid likes I discredit simply because noid has horrible taste in wrestling. Also, I said noid needs not apply because he pulls shit like this.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
I think the fact that you like him is more likely a deterrent than the fact that he's in RoH. I mean, you didn't even need to make a motive up to slam BDC there. You could have simply gone with the "Things Noid likes suck" theory, and it would have been a legit BDC opinion. This? Looks more like a strawman.
Oh, would you fuck off. BDC has said in the past that he doesn't take ROH seriously. I seriously doubt he would consider someone who works in ROH to have had "screen matches" either. If you couldn't have seen BDC saying "Three people watch ROH. It doest count" then you're just being ridiculous.

You're just embarrassing us now.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele View Post
Kane Knight is a lot like a scarecrow, only less threatening and more annoying.
Oh James, your crush on me is ever so flattering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Oh, would you fuck off. BDC has said in the past that he doesn't take ROH seriously. I seriously doubt he would consider someone who works in ROH to have had "screen matches" either. If you couldn't have seen BDC saying "Three people watch ROH. It doest count" then you're just being ridiculous.

You're just embarrassing us now.
Yes, you're the one who resorts to strawmen to make even the simplest of arguments, and I'm the embarrassing one.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Oh, would you fuck off. BDC has said in the past that he doesn't take ROH seriously. I seriously doubt he would consider someone who works in ROH to have had "screen matches" either. If you couldn't have seen BDC saying "Three people watch ROH. It doest count" then you're just being ridiculous.

You're just embarrassing us now.
It doest count? I don't remember ever talking about roh in olde english. And doest means does. So that quote while odd, proves that RoH does count
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:23 AM   #21
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Shut up noid. No one asked you. Infact, I specifically told you not to come here.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:09 PM   #22
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Kane Knight. Will you please explain "strawman" to me? Thank you.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Kane Knight. Will you please explain "strawman" to me? Thank you.
A strawman is when you credit someone with an opinion or argument that they don't have for the sake of having a credible argument of your own. If someone makes a valid point and you can't debate it, the strawman solution would be to pretend they said something else, something that's easier to argue against. While it generally only applies to actual debates or arguments, Kane Knight lives in an argument, so it's possible for everyone to setup strawmen all the time.

That being said, this:

Quote:
And I know BDC wouldn't be counting this guy because he's from ROH
...could qualify as a strawman, unless BDC has actually stated at some point that he quite literally does not like guys explicitly for being in ROH. It's making up a feeling and crediting it to BDC, when BDC may not have actually expressed said point, solely for the purpose of slamming on BDC. For all I know, BDC could have said it and KK could be wrong, or my interpretation of which point is the strawman could be wrong--I just thought I'd throw it out there since, if I were a betting man, I'd be money that there's going to be a lot less actual explanation in the next few posts and alot more... uh... the opposite of that. Especially from Kane Knight.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME



I'M BACK BABY




Oh, and I highly approve of this El Generico fellow.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:03 PM   #24
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Thank you, sir. I have added to your TPWW reputation for explaining this to me. Just wanted to know what it was that KK falls back on in 90% of his arguements.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Thank you, sir. I have added to your TPWW reputation for explaining this to me. Just wanted to know what it was that KK falls back on in 90% of his arguements.
I don't really fall back on it. I just don't see why I have to address counter arguments you and Noid make when they don't counter anything I said. If you have to resort strawman arguments to try and counter what I said, I'm not the one "falling back."

Also...MAG! *humps your leg*
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:10 PM   #26
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DJ Gabriel without a doubt. I've been heaping praise on Knox and Swagger for a while.

Ricky Ortiz needs to die.

A guy in ROH with size, who is a decent wrestler and would actually have a shot in the WWE is Erick Stevens.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:05 PM   #27
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DJ Gabriel without a doubt. I've been heaping praise on Knox and Swagger for a while.

Ricky Ortiz needs to die.

A guy in ROH with size, who is a decent wrestler and would actually have a shot in the WWE is Erick Stevens.
I do hate Ortiz.

I think the only people in ROH right now who have a legit shot of doing anything in WWE are Eric Stevens, as you said, Claudio, and Nigel. I think sooner or later Danielson will be signed, but nothing will ever come of it, and he'll be released. I could see Jimmy Jacobs getting signed as a manager at some point, if WWE had a need for someone like him.

I think Bourne is going to end up doing well in the E, as long as he doesn't get injured a lot.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:25 PM   #28
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:44 PM   #29
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A Noid post, illustrated.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:39 PM   #30
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LOL
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:25 PM   #31
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From what I've seen so far (and it hasn't been much).

-Jack Swagger
-Dolph Ziggler

I think Swagger's got some great potential. He's got very good charisma from what I've seen. I haven't seen the guy wrestle...but if he's even slightly decent...then I think he's got a serious shot of progressing beyond the IC/US division.

-Dolph Ziggler's got great charisma as well, but I'm not sure if I see him progressing beyond the IC/US division. He comes across as too goofy. Unless his personna is altered at some point, the WWE usually do NOT push 'goofy' guys as main-eventers.

-Unless Mike Knox shows decent and/or UNIQUE wrestling ability (I don't know what his wrestling ability is like), then I can't see him progressing beyond the IC/US division. He could just end up being another Umaga (i.e. a hoss that is used to get up-and-comers over).


THE WWE NEEDS TO PUSH ORTON TO THE MOON.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:41 PM   #32
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THE WWE NEEDS TO PUSH ORTON TO THE MOON.
YES!
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:39 PM   #33
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Orton is horrible, but not as horrible as he was a couple of years ago. I have no clue why, but I can see Cody Rhodes being an awesome main event heel in 4 or 5 years
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:03 PM   #34
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Kane Knight is a lot like a scarecrow, only less threatening and more annoying.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:34 PM   #35
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In no way is Kane Knight as hot as Cillian Murphy!
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:09 PM   #36
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I don't know if I believe in up and comers. In a current WWE environment, you're either a groomed champion from your first match (Orton, Cena), or a veteran.
Anyone who "rises up the ranks" does so as part of a plan, or they've been a part of the main event since the 90s.
Up and coming means you're either being steadily pushed up through the US title towards the royal rumble and eventual Wrestlemania main event, or you're working a fued to pass the time until your next reign.

Other "up and comers" that gain fan support and are successful on their own merit and not as part of a plan, are pushed but not to the moon. So they're not really up and coming. They're up and staying. They peak at a transitional title reign, if that, and do their thing with all their fan support in the midcard.

TNA is kind of the same.

ROH also has a ton of what would be considered up and comers in the business, but since they won't go anywhere in either of the televised promotions they aren't really up and coming.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:28 PM   #37
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The statement noid is using is way out of context. For up and comers, RoH counts, it has too, it is the largest indy fed. So by default, it has the creme of the crop of unknows.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
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The statement noid is using is way out of context. For up and comers, RoH counts, it has too, it is the largest indy fed. So by default, it has the creme of the crop of unknows.
Yeah, it was out of context, but I don't think that's Noid's fault. I'm not sure he knows the context in the first place. Or what context is.

Which brings me to another term I tend to use a lot. "Quote Mining." I'm assuming most of you know what it means, and Narc knows how to find a dictionary.
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
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The statement noid is using is way out of context. For up and comers, RoH counts, it has too, it is the largest indy fed. So by default, it has the creme of the crop of unknows.
And you define it as something that gives a guy good screen-time? Fine, if you have changed your tone on accepting ROH as a reasonable place to find talent, I'll nominate Tyler Black.

You'll have to forgive me for using your past prejudices and opinions to a level of consistency. It is my mistake. Also, just so you boys know, a straw-man is an argument. I was not arguing anything. You're just being dicks for the sake of it. My statement is, at the very worst, hyperbole, and BDC's past condemnations of ROH are reason enough to explain this.

Also, for the love of God, KK -- "strawmen" or "strawman" is not a fucking word! Granted, it doesn't change what you meant, but for a guy who claims to be a journalist, aspires to be a writer and constantly introduces and uses the phrase -- can't you at least get used to using it properly? It wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't so sadly ironic.

And yes, I am setting you up.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:31 PM   #40
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Oh, I never want to see Eric Stevens in WWE, because I hate him. Nigel on the other hand, would be amazing. He's better than Burchill, has a good look, and can work a mic really well.
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