[darkpower]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I didn't. I made a statement of rebuttal.

So...you insulting me and anyone who dares to disagree with you (that you do often to people that CAN counterpoint you and choose to do so) is rebutting? Wow! That's a new definition.

I'm not the one who tried to change the topic when it was brought up. I'm not repeating a question, because it's not a question. I'm not repeating it because I didn't like the answer. I'm repeating it because it's still valid.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it anymore true if you repeat it over and over again so people believe it IS true.

That and you also go into bully mode when you do start getting pwned. The only problem is that I have NO problem having this debate.

Replace "addressed" as "dismissed with bias" and you're probably correct.

You take being fair to all consoles and not trying to reach for something to use to say "yeah, here's WHY you're point doesn't matter" as "dismissing with bias"?

Wait...This, a move done by most manufacturers with almost all systems, is a move of desperation? Sweet.

Dude, it is when it comes just when your console gets ass raped by 20k consoles during the month of July. That and way to completely ignore that I said that they have no need to BE in desperation mode yet since they don't have too much TO be worried about. However, this seems to be them acting desperate when they don't need to be.

I will answer you the same way I would a "truther."

Funny, because I've yet to see you actually succeed at doing that, either.

I "ignored" the statement in the same way I "ignore" the possibilities that a Vogon Contructor Fleet might have used the WTC as a test for their demolition of Earth to make way for a new Hyperspace bypass.

Not that I've ever HEARD that conspiracy, but way to bring 9.11 into this? What's the next thing you'll try to invoke into this, HIROSHIMA?!

I should probably ignore the unfounded speculation that Microsoft "probably" won't be able to keep charging for long. However, if it'll stop you from bitching, that is unfounded spexulation.

NO ONE SAID IT WAS FACT YET, YOU DUMBASS!! It is something that the actual article I posted to START this thread said, and it seems like most of the people on this thread had agreed to that point. It is OPINION that MS SHOULD consider that. No one knows if they ARE or if they will think about it. Apparently you have problems seeing the difference between opinion and fact. Why am I not surprised?

Right. And if you discount the apps one group has and stack the other....

Again, no one has said that MS didn't have apps this year, but heavy hitters? Can you NAME any other heavy hitters besides GOW2 and Fable 2 that MS has coming the remainder of this year that will be system sellers?

Wow. You're extending this to Nintendo not having anything else? Well, that certainly doesn't hurt your argument.

Jesus, man, you're really reaching to find a reason to attack my argument now. Again, PLEASE name something else coming from Ninendo that is SOO good that we should be excited about (and this is hurting me saying that because I do also own a Wii, not that you could've forgotten that, and I wish they DID have a better lineup this year)? The only thing they really had was Wii Music, and it wasn't recieved well at ALL!

But I see what you did here. You took something that we all agreed on and twisted it in order to fit into your argument. You're doing whatever you can to hold onto your argument that has lost any and all cred from anyone that isn't in your little circle of friends that will defend you no matter what.

Again, tell me something I should be excited about from Nintendo, because I'm not sure where you heard this other crazy, killer app that blew everyone away!

By the way, since Hasney mentioned the Attach Rates, NPD included TWO Pack-In titles for the Wii when factoring those numbers, dropping the actual numbers from 5.x to 3.x. Oh look. The numbers aren't that good when we dishonestly stack our deck. Nintendo also tries to throw in WiiWare into their RETAIL numbers.

So...you're getting your numbers from where, VGChatz.com? Last time I checked, it would BE the Wii that has the biggest install base because they have slaughtered just about EVERYTHING ever since it came out.

Speaking of desperation...Now you're trying to make stuff up to make me look like I'm wrong. But since you opened that door, isn't that the exact sort of attitude you're taking when you argue that Microsoft probably can't continue to charge for live? Are you going to presume to tell them whether or not they can charge for Live? No, you're not presuming to tell them that, nor am I presuming to tell them the price cuts are unnecessary. That isn't the point. Please don't make up arguments. If you don't understand, ask for clarifcation, rather than fabricating.

First, where the hell did I ever change your argument or make you look like you're wrong? You do such a good job doing that yourself that I don't think I could help you on that any better than you can.

And plus....are you saying that IGN was wrong for making that opinion? Again, this is just an opinion. It's an opinion I agree with, and apparently a few other people ON HERE (in case you're looking for them) do, as well. Are you saying we're not allowed to EXPRESS that opinion? It's a well thought out opinion based upon how much improvement the competition has done to their own network. Sounds like you're having issue that people will believe something that you don't want them to believe.

No, but we are talking the long game here.

Yeah, of course we are, but have you seen how quickly things are changing right now? Did anyone expect Sony to even find their feet, much less have the success they are now getting? Of course you didn't, nor did you ever want them to from the sounds of it! Your only response to someone making any pro-Sony argument is "you're loving Sony" and all of that.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm predicting. Oh, wait....

Hold on, so you're actually saying that you WANT MS to get the lead back? You actually told us that Sony not having THAT much of a console win for a monthly sales figure would mean the world would be right? So, how are we NOT supposed to believe that you have some agenda? Oh wait, you don't, you're just making (slanted) logic (spun so you can believe what you want and then no one else is allowed to call you on).

Says the guy who's talking about speculation against evidence....

I'm arguing with some guy who's so used to getting the upper hand on every argument that when he doesn't, he gets so asshurt that he begins bullying and immaturity, to the point that others react to you the same way (thereby getting exactly what you want, anyway).

And you're talking about facts vs. opinions. It IS a fact that Sony's PS3 sold 20k more units than the 360 for the month of July. It's OPINION that we think MS should drop the charge on XBox Live (by the way, why would you bitch if they DID drop that charge? That's beneficial for you, right, and it would make the service even MORE attractive since it's supposed to be so much better, right?). It's very simple, really.

The reality you've fabricated in which analogous spikes immediately translate into a diamond future? k.

Soooooo...you can back up anything YOU'RE saying, or are we just supposed to say it's just "simple logic" that everyone should understand? Remember, YOU'RE the one interjecting half of these arguments into this conversation, so you might want to start giving us links and shit to back it up (oh, and if you want ME to do that, I'm more than willing). You say it's common logic what you say, so let's see these figures, these articles that back up anything you're saying!

I don't suppose you realise how stupid that sounds...Nah. Be too easy. An unfounded rumour continuing suddenly validates it?

So...why is it not dead yet? Why don't you go find these evil people that keep "spreading" this rumor and tell them why they are so wrong? Just don't come crying to us when you come back saying that they ate you alive because you didn't have anything to back up your claim as to WHY you believe that or why they shouldn't be allowed to express THEIR opinion?

Think about this for a minute: If you got a rumor that they deny (and of COURSE MS is going to deny it after the disaster that was the XBox to 360 transition where they pissed off EVERYONE by dropping XB1 support like a bad habit, why would they want to lose customers that were butthurt over that before but decided to give them a second chance with the 360 by making them think it will happen again so soon), but then someone else keeps hearing it and keeps spreading it, they're obviously SOME reason why the rumor doesn't die. Now, it's either they are stupid enough to keep spreading it, somoene at MS has too much time on their hands to fuck with people, or there is something MS is telling us. Tell me where this doesn't make sense to you.

Didn't say that. I love how "they remember." It's vague, it's pointless, it's not born out by a loss of sales in 2007, when it was also being covered by all the blog sites. AKA: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull another rabbit out of my hat!"

Let me go back to the quote you had said that made me respond that way to begin with:

Such rumours didn't hurt sales of the PS2. The PS3 and 360 didn't really hurt sales of the PS2. Yet, for some reason, logic dictates it will have an impact here? Nah. These are hypotheticals thrown out to demonstrate an extreme scenario in which there might be an issue.

Now, think about this. The reason why the PS2's sales weren't hurt: The PS2 was STILL BEING SUPPORTED BY SONY! Hell, they're refusing TO end support for it. How will sales stop if you keep fueling the fire?

On the other hand, what happened to the original XB1 when MS introduced the 360? Did you hear anything else from that? MS drops support for the original XB1 (and for that matter, wanted to drop all support for WinXP earlier this year before people spoke up), and pretends the 360 is the only system they ever made. Now, if that was YOU who was not ready to commit to a new system with them doing that crap, how would YOU be feeling? This is not an extreme scenario because it's ALREADY HAPPENED, and MS has this reputation to just drop support for their old products to force people to commit to purchasing their newest stuff. So...where should anyone NOT be afraid that if and when MS announces a 720 that they will do the exact same damn thing again? How are you so confident?

And MS execs have bandied about 2012...Hypocritical? Of course, Sony is completely trustworthy and this is 100% feasible....Not to mention the public will buy fact over rumour...Right? The 10 year plan will make the PS3 severely dated unless they let us upgrade more than just the HDD. The BD drive is already sorely dated.

Read above.

And let's talk about this: Sony is so unbelievable and everyone takes them with a grain of salt, but MS has yet to tell a lie or blow up the truth in their favor, right? So, basically, no one is ever believable EXCEPT for MS? Having a hard time digesting THAT! And yes, you DID say this because you're the one bringing this 2012 thing up.

And how is the BD drive outdated? A BD player that Sony had made is outdated in playing a format that Sony made! Not sure of the sense of that.

Except your statement was slanted. Faux news, DP. You're very quick to stoop to their level, despite BAWWWWing about them.

And your word is the gospel of truth, right? We're all supposed to just not believe anything else except whatever you read to make you come up with these arguments, huh? And you're saying I'M the one slanting?

I'm not assuming the latter. Thanks for making that up. However, in terms of the former, Sony has explicitly stated they won't be answering the price cut, as has Nintendo. Granted, I don't believe Sony as blindly and faithfully as you do, but doesn't that undercut the whole thing you said earlier about Sony's ten year plan if they do end up answering the price cuts? Beyond that, it's not exactly the greatest of arguments, since Sony's still taking a bath, and reducing the price will have an impact on more than just sales....Or does that magically go away?

You don't have to say anything in order to make anyone IMPLY anything. And I don't blindly believe in anything (how are you coming up with half of these arguments you use to begin with?).

Again, to what you DID say:

Assuming they can consistantly widen the gap, yet to be demonstrated. Also assuming the fall lineup of games, price cuts and Holiday season all have no impact.

Now, think, what DOES come out for Sony this holiday season? LBP (which is slated to BE a system seller, keyword, slated), Resistence 2 (anyone who got word on the success of R1 will be interested), Home (which is getting more and more press. Use the Google for once), or anything else that they would be able to come out with. Also, you're not taking into the account the amount of people getting a HDTV for the Digital TV conversion, which would make someone want to buy a Blu Ray player, which in turn will want to get the most valuable and cheapest Blu Ray Player, and guess what that will be?

What does MS have to compete with these advantages Sony could have going for them? Yes, they have the price cut that makes the Arcade version the cheapest out of the three system (which make it more attractive for someone wanting a cheap new system to buy for their kids or someone that won't give a shit about the hard drive). But they really don't have much of anything else.

Now, you choosing to completely ignore ALL of that makes us tell something about what you wanted to tell us. Just because you don't type it up doesn't mean you weren't trying to make us see what you really wanted to type up.