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Old 02-27-2011, 04:04 PM   #1
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Del Rio: The Lesnar Push?
Not exactly, obviously, but I was listening to a podcast where they brought up a good point. Del Rio is the first guy in WWE since Lesnar to get that mega push without them putting a stop to it as they got momentum. It's seemed that, ever since Lesnar burned them, they've been weary of pushing anyone too hard and too fast early in their career.

But Del Rio seems to have broken that rule. He's only been around since June, and in that time he's gotten a steady push to the top, and won the Royal Rumble and is now going to be wrestling for the WHC at Mania. Not only is he the fastest to get a Mania title shot since his WWE debut to my knowledge, he's also the fastest and first to do it without being a former champion (Lesnar was already a former WWE champion going into Mania 19).

Do you think Del Rio is handling this well? Do you feel he's already a main eventer, or if WrestleMania will solidify that? Do you think they'll eventually pull back on him, and do you think Del Rio will be able stay as relevant as he is now through them pulling back, if they do?

Discuss the Lesnar Push (being pushed right out of the gate and not having the rug pulled out from under them) and Del Rio in general in here.

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Old 02-27-2011, 04:17 PM   #2
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Still not too big on Del Rio. I mean, yeah, he is good, but he just doesn't seem on "that level" on the mic or with his mannerisms.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:33 PM   #3
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Maybe not on the mic, but the mannerisms are good though.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:38 PM   #4
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Yeah, ok. It is just everytime I see Del Rio do that hand gesture thing when he enters, he just looks like an idiot/goofy and not in a good way. You know... the Italian gesture towards yourself with all your fingers thing.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:40 PM   #5
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Though I did book him to become world champion in ARMCHAIR WARFARE Season 2. So obviously I do see potential.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:47 PM   #6
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I don't think he is the first one to win the rumble without having won the championship. Austin, Mysterio, and Benoit come to mind.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:50 PM   #7
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I don't think he is the first one to win the rumble without having won the championship. Austin, Mysterio, and Benoit come to mind.
He's not, but I meant that he's the fastest to do it from his debut.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:23 PM   #8
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He's not, but I meant that he's the fastest to do it from his debut.
Yokozuna was the fastest guy to win the Rumble and then win the Champonship from his debut
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:53 PM   #9
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Yokozuna was the fastest guy to win the Rumble and then win the Champonship from his debut
Oddly enough he was one of the quickest to lose it too lol and I hope that doesn't happen to ADR if he were to win even though I'm not that high on the guy it would still be like a slap in the face. Lesner was indeed pushed to the moon but at a very different point of the year by winning the KOTR which is probably the last time winning that tourney actually meant something. Anyways Dos Caras does have a lot more experience under his belt prior to joining the WWE than Lesner did but he was already in their developmental system that being OVW for a longer period I do believe.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:52 PM   #10
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You mean he's gonna go to MMA in a year or two and smarktards will cry sour grapes?
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:29 PM   #11
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You mean he's gonna go to MMA in a year or two and smarktards will cry sour grapes?
No, he will try to play football first.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:38 AM   #12
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No, he will try to play football first.
But they'll cheer that because he'll fail. And prove he's nothing without the fans he turned his back on.

I'm just gonna throw this out there: Brock Lesnar will never amount to anything in MMA. Never.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:16 PM   #13
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He's the perfect wrestler to do this with, as he's not green like most guys are they call up. Don Caras was a major draw in Mexico, so he's used to being a "top of the card" guy.

Its not a push that really makes a ton of sense with most guys, but for someone whose already been a "star" somewhere, and with a guy they're clearly high on, why not? Its not like him putzing around on Superstars or wrestling competitive matches with Vladimir Kozlov would have really done anything for him besides delay the inevitable.

PLUS, he's got in his back pocket the fact that if he doesn't like the WWE, he can waltz back to Mexico and make money there. So they needed to be "serious" about making him a player if they wanted him to stick.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:11 PM   #14
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I want to say No mostly due to Del Rio has had years of wrestling experience before coming to the WWE unlike Lesnar who was young in both age and ring experience. He already was a "star" in Mexico and also gained a lot of experience from his father who was also a wrestler.

Del Rio has also lost a bunch of matches but the writers haven't just stopped his push like they do with most wrestlers who get the initial mega push. He's shown some comedic elements with his facial expressions and losses (ex. TKO'ed from a Big Show punch after bragging how he would win the team match).
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:47 PM   #15
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Del Rio has all the tools to be a star but his promos are starting to sound the same every week. He needs to find more things to talk about because his delivery in his promos is great, but the topics keep repeating.

Lesnar's monster was well deserved. I think Lesnar was a generational talent. I can't think of anyone with that combination of size and talent. He was a real special talent.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:57 PM   #16
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Lashley got the Lesnar push a few yrs back.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:16 PM   #17
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Lashley got the Lesnar push a few yrs back.
Aside from the fact that he never won the world title or went over any top guys.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:00 PM   #18
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Del Rio is better than Lesnar...... I feel that Lesnar was only slightly better in the ring, but Del Rio definitely outshines him in the charisma & mic work department.... He seens to be handling the pressure quite well, but I think we will all see what he has on The Grandest Stage Of Them All.... a great performance versus Edge will lead to years on the main event scene (even a long title run) but an underwhelming performance can send him to a Jack Swagger-esque "holding pattern until creative comes up with something for you" level
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:09 PM   #19
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I'd be more likely to look at Del Rio as a champion if they gave him a credible IC title run first. Plus the IC title could use a good boost anyway.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:44 PM   #20
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I'd be more likely to look at Del Rio as a champion if they gave him a credible IC title run first. Plus the IC title could use a good boost anyway.
Why? He's beaten both the current US and IC champions, as well as almost every other midcard face on the roster. What would he have to gain carrying around a second tier belt for a couple of months when they've already booked him above the division?
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:49 PM   #21
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Why? He's beaten both the current US and IC champions, as well as almost every other midcard face on the roster. What would he have to gain carrying around a second tier belt for a couple of months when they've already booked him above the division?
By your logic, since Triple H has defeated The Undertaker before, he has nothing to gain from defeating him at WrestleMania. Hell, by your logic, why bother having titles at all if all that matters is defeating the person who is/would be champion.

What does he have to gain? How about credibility as a champion rather than just an effective heel? How about showing the people he can do a good job holding a title rather than just beating the person that does? For that matter, if he is as impressive as you say, then not only would he benefit from holding the IC title, but the IC title would benefit from having him hold it. It would be nice to see an up and coming main eventer (who isn't a former world champion) hold the IC title to make that belt mean something again. Too often the title just seems to be given to someone who isn't going anywhere, where it was once the stepping stone to becoming a world champion. Stone Cold, The Rock, HBK, Ultimate Warrior, Bret Hart....they all had the IC title not long before their first world title run, and it served them well.

Miz had a successful US Title run recently before winning the WWE title, and I think it helped make him look like a believable champion before winning a world title.

You can hang on Del Rio all you want, the man does nothing for me right now, he hasnt been on tv long enough or had any gold, so I won't look at him as a credible world champion even if he does with the world title at Mania, which odds are, won't even be the main event. I bet you right now Cena vs. Miz and Triple H vs. Taker go on after Edge vs. Del Rio.

Oh, and furthermore, I never said they should give him an IC title run NOW. He should have gotten it while they were building him up. A month or two before the Rumble would have been nice timing. Jeez everyone has to complain before they think.....
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
By your logic, since Triple H has defeated The Undertaker before, he has nothing to gain from defeating him at WrestleMania. Hell, by your logic, why bother having titles at all if all that matters is defeating the person who is/would be champion.

What does he have to gain? How about credibility as a champion rather than just an effective heel? How about showing the people he can do a good job holding a title rather than just beating the person that does? For that matter, if he is as impressive as you say, then not only would he benefit from holding the IC title, but the IC title would benefit from having him hold it. It would be nice to see an up and coming main eventer (who isn't a former world champion) hold the IC title to make that belt mean something again. Too often the title just seems to be given to someone who isn't going anywhere, where it was once the stepping stone to becoming a world champion. Stone Cold, The Rock, HBK, Ultimate Warrior, Bret Hart....they all had the IC title not long before their first world title run, and it served them well.

Miz had a successful US Title run recently before winning the WWE title, and I think it helped make him look like a believable champion before winning a world title.

You can hang on Del Rio all you want, the man does nothing for me right now, he hasnt been on tv long enough or had any gold, so I won't look at him as a credible world champion even if he does with the world title at Mania, which odds are, won't even be the main event. I bet you right now Cena vs. Miz and Triple H vs. Taker go on after Edge vs. Del Rio.

Oh, and furthermore, I never said they should give him an IC title run NOW. He should have gotten it while they were building him up. A month or two before the Rumble would have been nice timing. Jeez everyone has to complain before they think.....
First of all, your analogy is completely bogus. Secondly, how does my "logic" dictate that I don't think we should bother having titles? My point was that they've organically built up Del Rio as above that division without the title. Likewise, they've done it while allowing other guys to hold gold, and therefore get a rub from it. If their plans were to build Del Rio as a main event talent from the start, you don't have to throw a title around his waist to do so.

Instead, they gave Daniel Bryan/Dolph Ziggler reigns with the strap that did something for their credibility. There guys weren't built from the start as top caliber competitors, so their "ability to hold a title" means a damn. The same thing goes ESPECIALLY for Miz. The guy was booked at the bottom of the barrel when he got to the 'E, so showing a slow progression upwards made complete and total sense in establishing his credibility. Del Rio's character, however, was built as a man who talked main event shit, and backed it up in spades. From day 1, he called out, and beat, a former world champion. He's been booked as much better than the usual rookie, and thus, didn't take the same steps.

Second tier titles can do the job, I agree. But they aren't a necessary prerequisite for a world title run. And to be frank, pushing a future star trumps temporarily building up the Intercontinental title...especially because second tier title prestige is so transient. Do the unified tag titles mean more NOW because Jericho and Big Show held it a year ago? Do the Corre look better because of it? No, not really. But building Del Rio as a main event star, that CAN stick. Plus, if they wanted to give him an IC title run and push him the same way, he'd most likely have to drop the strap beforehand. Yeah, they can get creative where he wouldn't eat the pin, but still, why have him lose at all?

And you're completely entitled to your opinion...and where he falls at the top of the card is relatively inconsequential, he's still got a world title match at Mania.

And I knew what you meant, so how bout you "think before you complain."
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:32 PM   #23
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Alberto Del Rio is better than Lesnar, plus he's like, what, 35? He's mature, he's wrestled around the world, and won't make the same mistake of not appreciating what WWE is doing for him, like Lesnar did. He comes from a wrestling family, and not only does he understand the business, he respects it.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:22 AM   #24
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Discuss the Lesnar Push (being pushed right out of the gate and not having the rug pulled out from under them) and Del Rio in general in here.
Good post.

To answer your question, I am not really a fan of the "Lesnar push"...and think it needs to be used VERY sparingly...if ever. Here is one of my pet peeves with the WWE right now. In the WWE's zeal and desperation to create new stars, they are inadvertently devaluing the titles that they have. This has actually been a problem since 2002 when they first created the roster split. There is a difference between creating new main event superstars and devaluing your titles. I think this is the Economic equivalent of the Federal Reserve printing out more money.

I don't think Del Rios is that bad of a wrestler and sports entertainer, but he's not main-event worthy in my opinion...yet.

It might be too late but the WWE need to do a better job of making their titles MEAN more. Hell - maybe even eliminate a few titles that are out there. Remember back in the late 90's when you had guys like The Rock, HHH, and Jeff Jarret holding the IC titles? Remember how difficult and prestigious it was to be a World title holder? THAT is what the WWE needs to focus on.

A 'bottleneck' of quality wrestlers isn't necessarily a bad thing....as it ensures that the TRUE cream of the crop rises.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:30 AM   #25
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dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)dronepool has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
I think he deserves it, he's good at what he does.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:08 AM   #26
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Alberto Del Rio is a natural WWE Star, you could tell from his very first match. He has "it", and not in a way that anybody has ever had "it" before. He reminds me of Tito Santana mixed with JBL. I know that is a strange combination but it's what rings out to me. I don't think it's debatable that Alberto is one of the top five ring workers employed by WWE right now, and as far as character goes, well he's not lacking on that either.

I think that Lesnar was a huge deal but left at the right time for him, he may not have been such a big deal for very long we just don't know. However, Del Rio seems to me somebody who will evolve and learn, grow his character and change with the times. I am looking forward to the next 5+ years of Alberto Del Rio in WWE.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:38 AM   #27
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The man's got it. Put Del Rio next to superstars over the last thirty years and he looks like he belongs. And he can work. And he can talk.

He looks like a million bucks.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:21 PM   #28
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Who?
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Who?
His name is Alberto Del Rio. But you already knew that.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
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His name is Alberto Del Rio. But you already KNOW that.
Fixed apparently you were not aware he always says it in the present tense rather than past not really sure why though he is supposed to have a superior intellect.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:48 PM   #31
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Fixed apparently you were not aware he always says it in the present tense rather than past not really sure why though he is supposed to have a superior intellect.
Huh, I thought that was just his accent.
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:15 AM   #32
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XL, you don't like me? Aww, I'm hurt. I really am. Seriously. Like really really. Oh, wait. No, never mind. I'm over it.

"Dumping" is simply an expression. Have him stripped of it by some ruling that Teddy doesn't want him holding two belts. Have him forfeit it. Be creative. I don't care. Shortly before Stone Cold won his first WWE title he literally threw the IC belt to the floor as he chose to forfeit it to The Rock as opposed to defend it because he decided all he cared about was the WWE title. Did this make Rock's run any weaker? Did it make the belt look bad then? No. In fact, The Rock went on to have one hell of a run, and quite an impressive feud with none other than Triple H. Austin "dumping" the belt didn't hurt it one bit.

Anybody Thrilla, in the scenario I put forth, I also mentioned the possibility of Champion vs. Champion like Warrior vs. Hogan, which was in fact title for title. So you say it leaves no opening for an IC title program. I disagree. Also, by the way, the current IC title program going into WrestleMania is what again? Oh right, there isn't one. Thank god the IC title isn't around the waist of someone who actually has a match. That way it's open for, well, don't worry I'm sure they'll think of something.

Snowden, I see you wrote a lot, and all towards little ol' me too. I'm flattered I'm still on your mind. Well to be perfectly honest, I didn't read any of what you wrote. Sorry but it's been a long day and an even longer night and I'm really not up to that much reading. So I'm just going to go ahead and assume that it's more of the same inane pointless bitching that ultimately goes nowhere and has absolutely no thought behind it other than "Onyx hurt my feelings. I say stuff now. Blah blah blah blah." Unlike you, I had a point, I've made the point, and no one has really offered a worthwhile argument against my point, so I'm bored. And I'm sure you'll continue bitching and moaning and crying like a hurt kid on the playground for as long as I let you, but personally I'm as bored discussing Del Rio as I am your incessant babbling. So I'm done with this thread. Unlike you, I know how to move on. But feel free to keep talking about me. Not like you have anything better to do, right? See you on other posts, I'm sure
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:14 PM   #33
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I was saying before Royal Rumble that his rise is reminding me of Kurt Angle. It continues to feel similar to me.
I think they should go ahead and put the title on him, which could be at Mania or shortly afterwards. Doesn't make a big difference.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:19 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
I was saying before Royal Rumble that his rise is reminding me of Kurt Angle. It continues to feel similar to me.
I think they should go ahead and put the title on him, which could be at Mania or shortly afterwards. Doesn't make a big difference.
Well, winning the title at WM versus winning it at whatever pay-per-view comes after DOES make a pretty big difference in terms of Del Rio's resume, and storyline-wise it's not the same to say "I won the title at WrestleMania", than to say "I won the title at Backlash (or whatever PPV comes next)".

If you're going to give him the title, do it right.
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Old 02-28-2011, 06:41 PM   #35
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i went to WWE.com and saw pictures of this fellow. He looks like he should be teaming with Santino or something. I haven't seen him wrestle. But just looking at the pictures of him, he doesn't look like a serious contender.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:45 AM   #36
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WOW. Aren't you an asshole.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #37
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Also, how does Del Rio "dumping" the IC Title make it look good in any way?
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:45 AM   #38
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Yeah, I was gonna say...anybody just throwing a title away does not make it look like a title worth chasing. Also in the scenario Onyx just put forth, there'd be absolutely no chance of an IC title program heading into Wrestlemania. The belt would basically serve as a piece of jewelry for Del Rio, but I guess that would make Onyx believe that Del Rio was credible for some reason.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:48 AM   #39
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Also, this is reminding me of this:

http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthrea...lberto+del+rio
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:43 AM   #40
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Onyx, you're fighting a losing battle. Snowden is right.

Look, I actually came forward and suggested a similar thing for Alberto Del Rio, too. I don't think he *needed* the IC Title, like you seem to believe he does, but I thought it would be cool if Del Rio won the title en route to WrestleMania, and then they did Champion vs. Champion against Edge. It'd add just a little more to their feud, true. You'd get a confirmed title change, and it'd be only the second time in WrestleMania history its happened -- the first being a show where Edge was in attendance as a fan.

BUT, that's not the route the WWE chose to take, and that's fine. They obviously want the Intercontinental Title on Kofi Kingston right now. What's wrong with that? It helps get Kofi over, and it may not be anything groundbreaking for the title, but more power to Kofi, who also has the chance to be a big star for the WWE in the future.

Now, given that Kofi was the Intercontinental Champion, I don't think his match against Alberto Del Rio should have been non-title at the Elimination Chamber. But, it was. I, personally, would have booked Kofi Kingston vs. Del Rio for the IC Title on SmackDown! with Christian costing Del Rio the match to Kofi. It looks great for Kingston and the IC Title, and it continues the storyline of Christian having a problem with the man who took him out. But whatever.

Doesn't change that everything Snowden is saying is right -- Del Rio has been booked like a big deal right from the start. He showed up and made Rey Mysterio submit in the main event of SmackDown!, and regardless of your personal opinion of the guy, Del Rio is a great business investment in the WWE (he's really helped out their television ratings in Mexico), and he doesn't seem out of place. Since last year he's been promoted as one of "SmackDown!'s biggest stars," and that's the way the WWE has presented him from the start -- that is how people accept him. He's getting great heat, and he's credible -- that's a rarity in the WWE, and booking him into mid-card feuds doesn't need to be a priority if that is the case, and there's a desire to use him at the main event level.

Now, to change gears a little bit: I'm not entirely sure Del Rio will win the World Heavyweight Title at WrestleMania. I can see the WWE dialing back on his push a little bit. Del Rio is a different case to guys like Wade Barrett, Sheamus and even Swagger, in that he has a history being successful in the business, and his involvement in the WWE has really has an immediate effect on the WWE's success in some regions. Del Rio being slightly older than your "new guy getting pushed" and having that experience, as well as the legitimacy in MMA (an avenue he has already explored, so perhaps Vince trusts him a bit more), makes him a unique case -- much like Lesnar was in 2002/2003. But, I can see Christian helping Edge retain, and then Del Rio going over Christian and perhaps moving to RAW, or then taking the World Heavyweight Title.

Del Rio is the bad guy, remember? We are meant to be happy when he loses. As long as they keep him looking like a world-beater, a loss here and there isn't going to delay the inevitable with Del Rio. It's very similar to what the WWE did with Wade Barrett, in my opinion -- they had all the cards stacked so that he could win the WWE Title last year, but decided to come up with a plausible explanation allowing Orton to retain, without making Barrett look weak.
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