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Old 03-10-2015, 03:32 PM   #1
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Was Goldberg that good/great?
As a wrestler/superstar etc?

He had the look but what about the skills?


Then there was his "undefeated streak" god knows where they got 173 from.


No doubt he has "big" during the Monday Night Wars but does he measure up to the all time greats? His stint in WWE was all too brief and did he ever do enough over his career in WCW and WWE to be truly considered a ring legend or do we give him far too much credit?

A poem for Charlotte.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:46 PM   #2
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Does he compare to other legends? No

Did i enjoy him while he was around? Yes
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:11 PM   #3
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Does he compare to other legends? No

Did i enjoy him while he was around? Yes
Why does/did he get so much credit? Were WCW just desperate to create their own "Rock" or "Stone Cold" that he was overhyped?

In reality what memorable storylines did he have other than the streak? what stand out matches or feuds did he have that lasted beyond an episode of nitro or a ppv?

His stint in WWE was so brief an insignificant we even forget he won the WHC.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:56 PM   #4
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He'd still be undefeated if it weren't for Tazer Ramon and the meddling NWO
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:07 PM   #5
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Overrated overrated overrated overrated
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:21 PM   #6
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Overrated overrated overrated overrated
I'm getting real tired of your shit dad, who is your favorite wrestler anyway?
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:13 AM   #7
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I'm getting real tired of your shit dad, who is your favorite wrestler anyway?
Favorite wrestler and best wrestler is John Cena
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:15 PM   #8
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If the only way you can get over and stay over is to squash everybody, you aren't that good. He was in the grand scheme of things a flash in the pan, but WCW did more to hurt him than help him upon his ascendency to the top of the business.
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:26 PM   #9
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If the only way you can get over and stay over is to squash everybody, you aren't that good. He was in the grand scheme of things a flash in the pan, but WCW did more to hurt him than help him upon his ascendency to the top of the business.
Well many people suggest Nash booking himself to end the streak and at that point in time was a bad move, which it was but I don't think that was the key factor in what hurt Goldberg's career.

As I said before none of his feuds or matches other than against DDP at Halloween Havoc were particularly great or memorable.

To get his shot against Hogan he had to beat Hall on Nitro the same night. They should have built this up over months and months with him taking out each and every one of the NWO or even some sort of wild 4 on 1 handicap match etc.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
If the only way you can get over and stay over is to squash everybody, you aren't that good. He was in the grand scheme of things a flash in the pan, but WCW did more to hurt him than help him upon his ascendency to the top of the business.
I agree. The only thing worse is sleeping with the boss's daughter to get a push
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:17 PM   #11
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I think he did a lot to hurt his own career.. busting his hand on the limo trying to make himself look tougher put him out for ages by the time he came back the company was done and dusted..
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:32 PM   #12
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I think he did a lot to hurt his own career.. busting his hand on the limo trying to make himself look tougher put him out for ages by the time he came back the company was done and dusted..
WCW was dead before he punched the window.

I think after Nash won the title they should have had Goldberg take out the nWo one by one.

Both factions could still reform into 1 but I would do away with the finger poke of doom.
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:49 PM   #13
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Eh he sort of appealed to my childhood self then Nash killed it and then Goldberg went and got that god awful theme song(I don't understand why people insisted on fucking with his original theme it was perfect) and that just killed it more and looking back ,at times he looked sloppy and unsafe

at some point he kicked Bret in the head there's that too

overall he was just ok

Next we should discuss the certified legend Ed Leslie.
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:54 PM   #14
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I think Goldberg was very much in the right place at the right time. He was a big guy that was pretty damn athletic, I'll never forget when Glacier tried to low sweep him and Goldberg backflipped over it, but other than that, I really have no lasting memories of him. I was never a fan of his as I thought that other guys that had been there and were having great matches deserved the spot more than he did (Booker T, Benoit, Jericho, etc.)

That being said, I understand why he became so hot so quick. Was he great in the ring? No. Could he have a good match every now and then if he was in there with someone that could carry it? Yes. Did he get pushed too soon? Yes. In the grand scheme of things he was probably the only thing keeping WCW above water until the Starcade 98 fiasco, so that has to count for something, I guess.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:42 PM   #15
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Goldberg saved WCW for a short period of time. One man literally saved an entire wrestling company. Even if it was for a brief time he is still the only man to have done that.
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:54 AM   #16
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Goldberg saved WCW for a short period of time. One man literally saved an entire wrestling company. Even if it was for a brief time he is still the only man to have done that.
This. He was probably pushed a little soon, but WCW needed something and they hid his weaknesses by giving him 30-second squashes every week....
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:07 PM   #17
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Wouldn't consider him as a great but he was good while in WCW or at least until WCW screwed up badly with his post-streak booking.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:21 PM   #18
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What was his streak actually up to? Feels like they inflated the numbers every other week
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:27 PM   #19
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173-0.

They did pad his numbers after a while. Started to count house shows and even made up a few shows for the padding. Might have even counted handicap matches as extra wins for each guy involved.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:50 PM   #20
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I think given WCW was heading into dire straits, the arrival and hype of Goldberg made him look better than he actually was and given he lacked significant in-ring ability there was actually no direction for him to go in once the streak ended in WCW and subsequently after his arrival in WWE.

If his WCW tenure is remembered for being a bright light in an otherwise dark time then his WWE tenure is remembered for signifying the arrival of "the rival company's big star" and that was it.

Back in the day I was a huge fan and the music, the entrance, the chants, it was literally electrifying to steal a term from The Rock.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:58 PM   #21
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He wasnt under 5ft with a submission finisher so you wont get no love for him on here
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:59 PM   #22
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A Goldberg squash match was/is infinitely more exciting than a half hour Daniel Bryan one
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Old 03-12-2015, 07:12 AM   #23
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A Goldberg squash match was/is infinitely more exciting than a half hour Daniel Bryan one


I cant stand either guy, but Daniel is far more fun to watch than Boreberg
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:50 PM   #24
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Goldberg was fucking tremendous
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:18 PM   #25
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Goldberg was the king of the jew rasslers
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:59 PM   #26
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Goldberg was good. Sure, he was no Kurt Angle, but then he wasn't meant to be. He was brought in as a no-nonsense, ass kicking machine, and he did that role extremely fucking well. Without Goldberg I believe WCW would have died earlier than they did, so you need to give him credit for getting a bit of interest back in the company. It takes someone special to be able to pull off what he did, especially in those times, and he nailed it.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:54 AM   #27
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Goldberg was good. Sure, he was no Kurt Angle, but then he wasn't meant to be. He was brought in as a no-nonsense, ass kicking machine, and he did that role extremely fucking well. Without Goldberg I believe WCW would have died earlier than they did, so you need to give him credit for getting a bit of interest back in the company. It takes someone special to be able to pull off what he did, especially in those times, and he nailed it.
Right man in the right place at the right time. WCW were desperate and getting pounded in the ratings and the NWO was becoming tedious. Goldberg and Warrior's "return" were essentially the last throws of the dice for WCW. Any other decent writer would have had Goldberg's streak go beyond Starrcade.

The problem though is Goldberg had no versatility other than a squash match hence he became tiresome in WCW and his brief WWE stint.
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:19 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy Foot View Post
Right man in the right place at the right time. WCW were desperate and getting pounded in the ratings and the NWO was becoming tedious. Goldberg and Warrior's "return" were essentially the last throws of the dice for WCW. Any other decent writer would have had Goldberg's streak go beyond Starrcade.

The problem though is Goldberg had no versatility other than a squash match hence he became tiresome in WCW and his brief WWE stint.
From what I recall, the writers DID have him winning past then, but Nash decided it'd be better if he went over. Also, saying he only did squash matched is a bit harsh, he held his own with Bret Hart and others when needed to, but squash matches was really his gimmick, so that was always going to happen.

As for his WWE stint, he was just booked poorly. Worse than he was in WCW around the time he was turned heel. It's well known that Vince will never push an outsider like he does his own creation.
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:20 AM   #29
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Also, you can't blame him for being the 'right guy in the right place at the right time'.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:40 AM   #30
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How did WWE push him wrong? He was still booked to be dominant, they just didn't have him squash jobbers and asked him to actually regularly fucking work a match for once.
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Old 03-12-2015, 05:51 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
How did WWE push him wrong? He was still booked to be dominant, they just didn't have him squash jobbers and asked him to actually regularly fucking work a match for once.
I didn't say push him wrong, I said booked wrong. There's a difference there. I just feel if he was booked as the same dominant badass as he was in WCW, the character would have worked better. Yet, he was seemingly made to look only as good as, if not slightly lower than the WWE talent, especially HHH. That's not a knock on HHH, I'm a big fan and have no issues with him at any stage in his career, I just feel they could have made him look the same as he was in Atlanta.

Example, in WCW, either Ric Flair, Scott Steiner, or Kevin Nash could be in the ring, and if Goldberg came out, you knew they were getting their asses handed to them.

In WWE, HHH, The Rock, or Brock Lesnar in the ring, Goldberg comes out, and you think that he can hold his own if he's lucky.

Maybe that was just view on things, I dunno. But that's how I viewed it
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazz Dan View Post
I didn't say push him wrong, I said booked wrong. There's a difference there. I just feel if he was booked as the same dominant badass as he was in WCW, the character would have worked better. Yet, he was seemingly made to look only as good as, if not slightly lower than the WWE talent, especially HHH. That's not a knock on HHH, I'm a big fan and have no issues with him at any stage in his career, I just feel they could have made him look the same as he was in Atlanta.

Example, in WCW, either Ric Flair, Scott Steiner, or Kevin Nash could be in the ring, and if Goldberg came out, you knew they were getting their asses handed to them.

In WWE, HHH, The Rock, or Brock Lesnar in the ring, Goldberg comes out, and you think that he can hold his own if he's lucky.

Maybe that was just view on things, I dunno. But that's how I viewed it
So because WWE didn't book him to make everybody his bitch, he was pushed wrong. If the only way you can get over is to squash everybody, you aren't that good.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
So because WWE didn't book him to make everybody his bitch, he was pushed wrong. If the only way you can get over is to squash everybody, you aren't that good.
You're being quite hostile, I wasn't saying that. Obviously I'm not getting my view across properly, and it's one I'm certainly not in anyway trying to say you have to agree with. It's just how I looked at the situation. Let's just leave it that, if you're getting this angry at my opinion, I'd rather not discuss it with you further
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:43 AM   #34
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Goldust putting a wig on him didn't kill his character, and neither did HHH cheating to the hilt to beat him either especially when he beat him 2 PPVs in a row after SummerSlam. His lack of actual ability outside of being booked as a dominant squashing monster is what did in his WWE career. His WMXX performance says a lot about him also.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:45 AM   #35
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He could "work" in the sense that the only selling he could do was the same "spear the ring post" spot and he's slap and shake his head for the rest of the match before landing 20 power moves.
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:10 AM   #36
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card/ datematchmatch typetitle(s)
WWE WrestleMania XX
Mar 14th 2004		Goldbergdef. (pin)Brock Lesnarreferee: Steve Austin
WWE Monday Night Raw
Feb 2nd 2004		Goldbergdraw (NC)Kane

WWE Monday Night Raw
Jan 26th 2004		Goldbergdef. (pin)Jonathan Coachman & Mark Henryno disqualification handicap tag
WWE Royal Rumble '04
Jan 25th 2004		Chris Benoitdef. A-Train, Billy Gunn, Booker T., Bradshaw, Charlie Haas, Chris Jericho, Christian, Ernest Miller, Goldberg, John Cena, Kane, Kurt Angle, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Matt Morgan, Mick Foley, Nunzio, Randy Orton, Rene Dupree, Rhyno, Rico, Rikishi, Rob Van Dam, Scott Steiner, Shelton Benjamin, Spike Dudley, Tajiri, The Big Show, The Hurricane30-man Royal Rumble
WWE Monday Night Raw
Jan 19th 2004		Goldbergdef. Booker T., Chris Jericho, Mark Henry, Randy Orton, Rob Van Dambattle royale
WWE Monday Night Raw
Jan 19th 2004		Goldbergdef. (pin)Scott Steiner, Testthree-way
WWE Monday Night Raw
Jan 12th 2004		Goldbergdef. (pin)Matt Hardy

HUSTLE PPV 1
Jan 4th 2004		Bill Goldbergdef. Naoya Ogawa

WWE Armageddon '03
Dec 14th 2003		Triple Hdef. (pin)Goldberg (c), Kanetriple-threat no disqualificationWorld Heavyweight Championship (WWE)
(title change)
WWE MSG Show (Dec '03)
Dec 12th 2003		Goldberg (c)def. (pin)Kane
World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)
WWE Monday Night Raw
Dec 8th 2003		Goldbergdef. (DQ)Kanelumberjack
WWE Monday Night Raw
Dec 1st 2003		Goldberg & Rob Van Dam & Shawn Michaelsdef. (pin)Batista & Kane & Randy Orton6-person tag
WWE Monday Night Raw
Nov 24th 2003		Goldbergdef. (DQ)Triple H

WWE Monday Night Raw
Nov 17th 2003		Batista & Randy Orton & Triple Hdef. (pin)Goldberghandicap tag
WWE Survivor Series '03
Nov 16th 2003		Goldberg (c)def. (pin)Triple H
World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)
WWE Monday Night Raw
Nov 10th 2003		Goldbergdef. (DQ)Batista

WWE Monday Night Raw
Oct 20th 2003		Shawn Michaelsdraw (NC)Goldberg

WWE Monday Night Raw
Oct 20th 2003		Shawn Michaelsdraw (NC)Goldberg

WWE Monday Night Raw
Oct 13th 2003		Goldberg & Shawn Michaelsdef. (pin)Mark Henry & Randy Orton & Ric Flairhandicap tag
WWE Monday Night Raw
Oct 6th 2003		Goldbergdef. (DQ)Mark Henry$100,000 bounty
WWE Monday Night Raw
Sep 29th 2003		Goldberg & Shawn Michaelsdef. (DQ)Randy Orton & Ric Flair

WWE Monday Night Raw
Sep 22nd 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Chris Jericho

WWE Unforgiven '03
Sep 21st 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Triple H (c)
World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)
(title change)
WWE Monday Night Raw
Sep 8th 2003		Goldberg & Randy Ortondraw (NC)Ric Flair & Triple H

WWE Monday Night Raw
Sep 1st 2003		Goldberg & Maven & Shawn Michaelsdef. (pin)Randy Orton & Ric Flair & Triple H6-person tag
WWE SummerSlam '03
Aug 24th 2003		Triple H (c)def. (pin)Chris Jericho, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels"Elimination Chamber"World Heavyweight Championship (WWE)
WWE Monday Night Raw
Aug 18th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Randy Orton

WWE Monday Night Raw
Aug 11th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Ric Flairno disqualification
WWE Monday Night Raw
Aug 4th 2003		Goldbergdef. (DQ)Ric Flair

WWE Monday Night Raw
Jul 28th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Steven Richards

WWE Monday Night Raw
Jun 30th 2003		Goldbergdraw (NC)Lance Storm

WWE Monday Night Raw
Jun 23rd 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Rodney Mack5-Minute White Boy Challenge
WWE Monday Night Raw
Jun 16th 2003		Booker T. & Goldbergdef. (pin)Chris Jericho & Christian

WWE Bad Blood '03
Jun 15th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Chris Jericho

WWE Monday Night Raw
Jun 9th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Rosey

WWE Monday Night Raw
May 19th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Lance Storm

WWE Monday Night Raw
May 12th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)Christiansteel cage
WWE Monday Night Raw
May 5th 2003		Goldbergdraw (NC)Christian

WWE Backlash '03
Apr 27th 2003		Goldbergdef. (pin)The Rock
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:21 AM   #37
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Goldberg was booked the best out of all former WCW talent, including the nWo guys that came in. Heck He was booked better than everyone besides HHH that year, but was still made to look stronger than Trips who had to cheat to win.
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Old 03-13-2015, 07:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Goldberg was booked the best out of all former WCW talent, including the nWo guys that came in. Heck He was booked better than everyone besides HHH that year, but was still made to look stronger than Trips who had to cheat to win.
Disagreed totally.


Best booked former WCW talents as you put it: Booker T, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, heck even Big Show and then maybe Goldberg.

Hogan at least got WM X8 and the undisputed title but then again Hogan is Hogan.
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:31 AM   #39
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Feel like he was more of a "persona" than a good "worker".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Steele
So because WWE didn't book him to make everybody his bitch, he was pushed wrong. If the only way you can get over is to squash everybody, you aren't that good.
^ That.
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Old 03-12-2015, 11:08 AM   #40
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depends on your definition. Was he the best "in ring worker"? Of course not. Put him in with certain guys or under certain situations and he could have good matches consistently (he was capable of doing more than just a squash match, see matches with Steiner, DDP, Raven, Hogan etc) but he was never going to be an "in-ring technician".

However, if you're talking presence, charisma, "it factor", look, the ability to switch gears, fire, explosiveness, connecting with an audience from minute 1 and so on, Goldberg is right towards the top of the list with anybody in history. Ask any bland "superworker" around if they'd rather be able to go 20 minutes with a broom and have it be good or have what Goldberg had and they're gonna choose the latter. Because that's what makes money, moves you to the top of the card and what most people remember. He's a hall of famer, headline worthy. I'd say that probably makes him pretty great.
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