TPWW Forums
wrestling forum>So Triple H leaves, and Raw goes to shit.
Loose Cannon 11:53 AM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Kane Knight:
You could just take your ritalin, and your desire to see Goldberg quality matches will go away.
Take a deep breath and remember that you are not the only person watching, and that wrestling has come a long way since 1987. I'm sure evolution pains you as it does us all, but things change.
If the same formula has worked for the all-time big draws since 1980, I sure wouldn't change it.You could just take your ritalin, and your desire to see Goldberg quality matches will go away.
Take a deep breath and remember that you are not the only person watching, and that wrestling has come a long way since 1987. I'm sure evolution pains you as it does us all, but things change.
Kane Knight 12:37 PM 08-10-2005
Of course not. And yuou'd probably still have Hogan as champion. Hey, if a formula works, why change it?
Loose Cannon 12:52 PM 08-10-2005
show me where I said I'd still have Hogan as champion?
Let's take Batista, i.e. the current champion. Right after he turned babyface, he had matches with guys, in which he pretty much dominated. I mean, that Orton match on Raw took like 5 minutes and he killed him. He killed Christian pretty quick. He killed La Resistance in a 2 on 1. He destroyed HHH and Flair almost 85% of the time before Mania 21. He beat HHH 3 times on 3 PPV's. I could go on.
Fans wanted to see him destory guys and he did. And guess what? He got over.
Cena is doing the exact same thing right now, it's just that I don't agree with Jericho being the guy for Summerslam. But it's working for Cena as well.
Let's take Batista, i.e. the current champion. Right after he turned babyface, he had matches with guys, in which he pretty much dominated. I mean, that Orton match on Raw took like 5 minutes and he killed him. He killed Christian pretty quick. He killed La Resistance in a 2 on 1. He destroyed HHH and Flair almost 85% of the time before Mania 21. He beat HHH 3 times on 3 PPV's. I could go on.
Fans wanted to see him destory guys and he did. And guess what? He got over.
Cena is doing the exact same thing right now, it's just that I don't agree with Jericho being the guy for Summerslam. But it's working for Cena as well.
Kane Knight 01:57 PM 08-10-2005
Dude, you're so fucking anal it's not funny. You're also totally flavor of the week. Fickle as fuck, and anally defensive.
But you're special, and darn it, everyone knows it.
The WWE has failed to keep us interested by rehashing their successful "Formulas" from the past. What you're suggesting is that they keep trying it? That's fucking insane!
Not to mention you use Batista as an example. Yeah, what works for Batista will work for anyone with a push. I mean, come on, you're being as formulaic as the WWE was--And look how successful they've been. Dave was getting BOOS after he won the championship--Really sounds like they were doing a successful job. Orton "dominated," and where'd it get him?
Wow, the crowd's behind it. They're also behind Scotty 2 Hotty and Rikishi, I guess they should dominate.
yeahokwhateverortongirl2003
But you're special, and darn it, everyone knows it.
The WWE has failed to keep us interested by rehashing their successful "Formulas" from the past. What you're suggesting is that they keep trying it? That's fucking insane!
Not to mention you use Batista as an example. Yeah, what works for Batista will work for anyone with a push. I mean, come on, you're being as formulaic as the WWE was--And look how successful they've been. Dave was getting BOOS after he won the championship--Really sounds like they were doing a successful job. Orton "dominated," and where'd it get him?
Wow, the crowd's behind it. They're also behind Scotty 2 Hotty and Rikishi, I guess they should dominate.
yeahokwhateverortongirl2003
Kane Knight 01:59 PM 08-10-2005
And yeah, an Austin-esque booking works for Cena, because he's playing an Austin-esque character. You've cracked the code. Similar characters can be handled in similar ways. So let's count the ways in which Matt Hardy and Dave Batista are similar.
1. They wrestle.
2.They're both hosses.
3.Their mic skills are comparable.
4.Their wrestling styles are similar.
Nope, having trouble here. Please explain the similarities.
1. They wrestle.
2.
3.
4.
Nope, having trouble here. Please explain the similarities.
Afterlife 05:42 PM 08-10-2005
See, the reason I like KK so much is b/c he takes all my angry words and says them for me so I don't have to. 
Thank you, KK.
Thank you, KK.
Loose Cannon 07:22 PM 08-10-2005
well I see this argument is gonna end up just like his with Zen's in the Bret Hart thread and just like his with CyNicks a month back in that other Hardy thread. So why even bother.
And Afterlife:
If you're going to do one of these comeback things, you don't do it so the heel gets the advantage for most of the match and then the babyface comes back for the win in the last minute. You have the babyface start off strong, then the heel dominates, then the babyface comes back and wins.
I'll say one last thing. It's real easy. If wrestlers are getting over with the crowd, you book them to dominate and to win stong all the time. Especially when they are making thier big comeback match. Until I see wrestlers and the business getting over differently by any other way, then I'll retract all my above statements.
And Afterlife:
If you're going to do one of these comeback things, you don't do it so the heel gets the advantage for most of the match and then the babyface comes back for the win in the last minute. You have the babyface start off strong, then the heel dominates, then the babyface comes back and wins.
I'll say one last thing. It's real easy. If wrestlers are getting over with the crowd, you book them to dominate and to win stong all the time. Especially when they are making thier big comeback match. Until I see wrestlers and the business getting over differently by any other way, then I'll retract all my above statements.
Shadow 07:58 PM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon:
I'll say one last thing. It's real easy. If wrestlers are getting over with the crowd, you book them to dominate and to win stong all the time. Especially when they are making thier big comeback match. Until I see wrestlers and the business getting over differently by any other way, then I'll retract all my above statements.
Well here's the thing...the match with Snitsky wasn't his big come back match. That has to wait till Summerslam. Rather weird don't cha think?I'll say one last thing. It's real easy. If wrestlers are getting over with the crowd, you book them to dominate and to win stong all the time. Especially when they are making thier big comeback match. Until I see wrestlers and the business getting over differently by any other way, then I'll retract all my above statements.
evolutioner 08:10 PM 08-10-2005
I want both shows to do well, and poor Smackdown(!) sucked for a whiiiile, now it's been rockin' at least since about the time of the MnM debut (on carlito's first ever cabana) Remember back then when the eddie/rey feud was gettig "personal" and not wtf boring. Right now Smackdown(!) is by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than RAW . My question: how is Raw currently the preffered brand according to the tpww poll?
Loose Cannon 08:15 PM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Shadow:
Well here's the thing...the match with Snitsky wasn't his big come back match. That has to wait till Summerslam. Rather weird don't cha think?
it was his first match back after a period off. Why did they book him so weak going into the Summerslam match is my question?Well here's the thing...the match with Snitsky wasn't his big come back match. That has to wait till Summerslam. Rather weird don't cha think?
Ninti the Mad 08:16 PM 08-10-2005
I'm on of the few that actually likes HHH.
He is awesome. I called him by his real name once when they came down for a house show and he looked at me. It was quite chilling.
Anyway, the only gripes I have with RAW are the lackluster bouts with Chris Masters and Viscera. Get those faggots off RAW now. That is all.
He is awesome. I called him by his real name once when they came down for a house show and he looked at me. It was quite chilling.
Anyway, the only gripes I have with RAW are the lackluster bouts with Chris Masters and Viscera. Get those faggots off RAW now. That is all.
Kane Knight 08:46 PM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon:
well I see this argument is gonna end up just like his with Zen's in the Bret Hart thread and just like his with CyNicks a month back in that other Hardy thread. So why even bother.
With you looking stupid? Yes.well I see this argument is gonna end up just like his with Zen's in the Bret Hart thread and just like his with CyNicks a month back in that other Hardy thread. So why even bother.
Kane Knight 08:47 PM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon:
it was his first match back after a period off. Why did they book him so weak going into the Summerslam match is my question?
Like he's gonna be here long anyway?it was his first match back after a period off. Why did they book him so weak going into the Summerslam match is my question?
Seriously, you're not doing very good with this whole "applying logic" thing, are you?
Kane Knight 08:50 PM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Shadow:
Well here's the thing...the match with Snitsky wasn't his big come back match. That has to wait till Summerslam. Rather weird don't cha think?
Yeah, but they probably shouldn't have debuted him in ring before that if that was their plan.Well here's the thing...the match with Snitsky wasn't his big come back match. That has to wait till Summerslam. Rather weird don't cha think?
OTOH, going over or looking strong against Snitsky made no sense, so any other outcome to this match would have been retarded.
Loose Cannon 08:55 PM 08-10-2005
Originally Posted by Kane Knight:
Like he's gonna be here long anyway?
Seriously, you're not doing very good with this whole "applying logic" thing, are you?
and who said they were going to get rid of him after Summerslam? I didn't know they were getting rid of him. My badLike he's gonna be here long anyway?
Seriously, you're not doing very good with this whole "applying logic" thing, are you?
Afterlife 09:19 AM 08-11-2005
You're still trying to make a point that I didn't care about in the first place.
All I did was illustrate that different people want different things from their favorites. You keep talking about this match, specifically. I agreed with you, thrice now, that the match itself was crap-fucking-tastic and pointless out the ass. But I also don't care. YOu and KK go ahead with your argument (which I'm pretty sure he's winning), but don't drag me in the mud with you just b/c I answered your rhetorical question.
All I did was illustrate that different people want different things from their favorites. You keep talking about this match, specifically. I agreed with you, thrice now, that the match itself was crap-fucking-tastic and pointless out the ass. But I also don't care. YOu and KK go ahead with your argument (which I'm pretty sure he's winning), but don't drag me in the mud with you just b/c I answered your rhetorical question.
Loose Cannon 10:06 AM 08-11-2005
Okay, well here's my question to you. Are you saying that style of booking draws? If so, name a certain wrestler that drew money like that. Which is getting beat up for more then his fair share and then coming back really quick for the win.
evolutioner 07:54 PM 08-11-2005
HHH
albeit by cheating (when in heel mode).
albeit by cheating (when in heel mode).
Loose Cannon 07:56 PM 08-11-2005
I was talking about babyfaces. Of course Heels get beat up like that.
That's how Honky Tonk got over as a heel. He made a career out of getting destroyed and then cheating to win out of nowhere.
That's how Honky Tonk got over as a heel. He made a career out of getting destroyed and then cheating to win out of nowhere.
Afterlife 08:28 AM 08-12-2005
To begin with, I"m sure you know bounds more about this particular topic than I, so clearly it's futile for me to attempt "naming names".
But secondly, asking if that kind of booking draws is a moot point, b/c the WWE will probably never bother answering that question. Because too many damn people bitch about formulaic after formulaic, but those same damn people bitch up a storm as soon as the writers attempt something new. So, if you get bitched at either way, just keep it easy and stick with the formulaic. After all, it's easier to write.
But secondly, asking if that kind of booking draws is a moot point, b/c the WWE will probably never bother answering that question. Because too many damn people bitch about formulaic after formulaic, but those same damn people bitch up a storm as soon as the writers attempt something new. So, if you get bitched at either way, just keep it easy and stick with the formulaic. After all, it's easier to write.
Kane Knight 10:21 AM 08-12-2005
Originally Posted by Afterlife:
But secondly, asking if that kind of booking draws is a moot point, b/c the WWE will probably never bother answering that question. Because too many damn people bitch about formulaic after formulaic, but those same damn people bitch up a storm as soon as the writers attempt something new. So, if you get bitched at either way, just keep it easy and stick with the formulaic. After all, it's easier to write.
This is true.But secondly, asking if that kind of booking draws is a moot point, b/c the WWE will probably never bother answering that question. Because too many damn people bitch about formulaic after formulaic, but those same damn people bitch up a storm as soon as the writers attempt something new. So, if you get bitched at either way, just keep it easy and stick with the formulaic. After all, it's easier to write.
Though it's sad that once they go back to "Business as usual," TPWW will still be bitching. But instead of "This isn't how you should book (X)," it will be "This isn't how you should book (X)."
Wait...That really isn't all that different.
Wonder when people'll get it. They always act like this new crap is worse than the old crap. The only reason new ideas don't get over is because people will still pop for Hogan and Taker, and bitch about something different.
Good thing wrestling's never evolved. That would have brough badness. Like Hulkamania or the Attitude era...Changing things up is responsible for the two biggest booms in the modern pro wrestling.
Kinda makes me wonder how right Vince is. There's always complaints from the WWE about the stupid faggots who hate pro wrestling (Basically those who will bitch ad nauseum) about it, but can't get enough. I seriously wonder if this is the majority of "internet fans," because really, "smarks" seem dumber than marks a lot more often than should really happen.
Kane Knight 10:30 AM 08-12-2005
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon:
Okay, well here's my question to you. Are you saying that style of booking draws? If so, name a certain wrestler that drew money like that. Which is getting beat up for more then his fair share and then coming back really quick for the win.
So you're saying that, if it hasn't been done in the past, it will never work in the future?Okay, well here's my question to you. Are you saying that style of booking draws? If so, name a certain wrestler that drew money like that. Which is getting beat up for more then his fair share and then coming back really quick for the win.
That something "new" cannot be attempted within the WWE?
That's great if you're autistic, but in reality, they need some way of keeping the clichés fresh.
Loose Cannon 07:08 PM 08-12-2005
No, I'm saying they've done it in the past and it hasn't worked. I have not seen it work one time. Until I do, then I say stick to what has worked
Loose Cannon 07:18 PM 08-12-2005
Change is always necessasy. Always. But the past is something you always want to learn from.
Jaton 07:31 PM 08-12-2005
Yeah. You're basically saying what is said in the beginning of Smackdown vs. Raw.
"Generations. Much can be learned from past generations. For past generations write history, they become history. The past may have already been written, but the future, the future awaits a new generation."
Sorry, I'm working on my season now.
"Generations. Much can be learned from past generations. For past generations write history, they become history. The past may have already been written, but the future, the future awaits a new generation."
Sorry, I'm working on my season now.
Savio 08:12 PM 08-12-2005
I think Raw has been terrible but since HHH is away we can't point at anyone.
Kane Knight 08:28 PM 08-12-2005
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon:
No, I'm saying they've done it in the past and it hasn't worked. I have not seen it work one time. Until I do, then I say stick to what has worked
Wow, "No I didn't, but I think that they should do exactly what I just suggested I didn't say they should do..."No, I'm saying they've done it in the past and it hasn't worked. I have not seen it work one time. Until I do, then I say stick to what has worked
Savio 03:54 PM 08-13-2005
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon:
Okay, well here's my question to you. Are you saying that style of booking draws? If so, name a certain wrestler that drew money like that. Which is getting beat up for more then his fair share and then coming back really quick for the win.
This Rey Eddie feud is like that.Okay, well here's my question to you. Are you saying that style of booking draws? If so, name a certain wrestler that drew money like that. Which is getting beat up for more then his fair share and then coming back really quick for the win.
Loose Cannon 03:59 PM 08-13-2005
Eddie has lost 3 times and Rey has looked strong all throughout the feud, especially at the beginning when they were both babyfaces. Nothing like that. Well, he doesn't look that strong anymore, but neither does the whole feud. They never should of brought "Domonick" into the picture.
Savio 04:01 PM 08-13-2005
Domonick kept it alive and Eddie Domonated more then half of the last two matches.
Loose Cannon 04:07 PM 08-13-2005
Didn't Eddie get DQ'ed in one of the last two matches? That right there puts Rey over stronger automatically because it made it seem like Eddie couldn't handle Rey is a fair match.
Jaton 04:08 PM 08-13-2005
Agreed. It cheapened the angle.
1 2