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Old 04-20-2009, 11:17 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Few things:

1) There's a HUGE difference between winning the Royal Rumble and winning MITB. Winning the Royal Rumble is designated for main-event guys...or guys that will be pushed as main-eventers even if it's temporary (i.e. Benoit, Mysterio).

2) Being an MITB champ is basically the modern day equivalent of being a King of The Ring champ. It's designated for people that are promising mid-carders. Furthermore - MITB, just as KOTR was in the past, should only be used to launch the careers of up-and-comers.

Your post demonstrates to me that you do not have a clear understanding of how to elevate mid-card talent.

By your logic, Austin should have won KOTR two or three years in a row, instead of allowing someone like Hunter Hearst Helmsley or Ken Shamrock to step up.

Please put some actual thought before you post next time.
Yeah, there is a huge difference between the Royal Rumble and Money in the Bank. The Rumble is for a title shot at WrestleMania, and Money in the Bank is people competing at WrestleMania for a title shot.

What you have to realise about MITB is that it is pretty much for a guaranteed World Championship. People say they want to see someone lose with the briefcase, but how fucking ridiculous will they look? You can pretty much run down the World Heavyweight Champion, roll him into a ring, and get a referee to count and get your name forever in the history books.

In the world of kayfabe, the World Championship brings you a lot of money and success, so I see no reason why a guy should lose with the briefcase. Essentially what you are doing with Money in the Bank is saying "You will be a World Champion within a year" to a guy. That should not be for your strict mid-carders. Yes, guys can get elevated with it, but what the match literally is, is a way to get a guy into a position where his booking is urgent. It's putting a star next to a guy's name saying "look after him, because he'll be WWE or World Heavyweight Champion by WrestleMania next year."

That can be a guy breaking through, or it could be a guy who has been to the top before, or it can be a repeat winner like it is this year. Sometimes MITB is not suitable to raise a guy through the ranks. It's a bit of a "cheap" way to win the title. That perspective should change, but if you raise a guy with the win every year, then it runs the risk of becoming a mid-carder's match, and a bit of a joke.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:21 PM   #42
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Sting Fan pretty much has it. If Punk goes back into the match a three-time World Champion (counting his ECW Title reign), or more, and a two-time winner of the match, it instantly gets boosted. It looks like a bigger deal than eight new goofs trying to kill each other, with the fans having no real reason to see any of them as a real title threat until they win.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:22 PM   #43
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
The WWE are building up other talent, dick. Matt Hardy has never looked so fucking credible.
And again...you miss the point you moron.

THERE IS NO POINT IN MAKING SOMEONE LOOK CREDIBLE IF IT ULTIMATELY DOES NOT MATERIALIZE. Stop. Re-read that sentence. Now read it again.

Your argument is completely predicated on the idea that the WWE does a good job of elevating talent...when this is clearly not the case. Again - look at Chavo Guerrero as an example (when he beat Rey Mysterio). Look at how the WWE screwed up with Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit.

The WWE's main goal should be in trying to create PERMANENT main-eventers....not temporary and transitional champions....and this has been their biggest fault.

Your post suggests that you expect the WWE to make Matt Hardy into a long-term main-eventer based on his recent actions. Given the WWE's track record however, this is not the case.



Quote:
Jack Swagger won the ECW Title after four months. Evan Bourne and John Morrison, two relatively young guys just had what could end up being the free televised Match of the Year. Mr. Kennedy will be returning soon.
Not enough people care about ECW to respect Swagger's accomplishment. The moment Swagger steps on to RAW or Smackdown, he won't have anywhere near the "credibility" that you are suggesting.

As far as Morrison and Bourne goes - again....no one watches ECW. The WWE are at fault for not putting a match like that on RAW, while you are at fault for thinking that enough people will see/know about that match.

You once again prove that you are a moron.

Quote:
CM Punk won the past two MITB Ladder Matches. He's like the defending champion of that match now. When he cashes in the briefcase successfully, and is a three-time World Champion, he will boost the stock of the match instead of just filling one of its slots. Punk wanting to win his third adds drama to that match.
It doesn't "add to the drama" you stupid pissant.

BEING A PART OF MITB ONLY RE-ITERATES THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A MID-CARDER OR ARE A VETERAN PUTTING OVER YOUNGER TALENT

Stop. Re-read that sentence again.

Being a MITB champ is the modern day equivalent of being a King of the Ring champion. The winner should only be a guy that is on the verge of rising....and it serves no purpose to have the same guy win it back to back years, since it doesn't allow other new guys to use that 'title' as a stepping stone.

Since you seem to have a hard on for Evan Bourne, I would argue that a guy like Evan Bourne should win MITB next year.

Quote:
There is no shortage of guys who can fill the title matches for WrestleMania.
Umm....actually there is you ignorant and stupid fuck.

One of the WWE's biggest problems right now is that no legit, non-transitional, main-eventers have been created in years. Guys like Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero do NOT count since they ultimately ended up in the same spot as they started out.....and never ascended back to that level.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:23 PM   #44
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Eddie and Benoit started out 6 feet under????3
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:24 PM   #45
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Oh and BTW, yelling over the internet doesnt make you right.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:27 PM   #46
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Oh and BTW, yelling over the internet doesnt make you right.
And neither does unprovoked attacks. I'm amazed Noid and Sting Fan are even debating you at this point.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:28 PM   #47
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But seriously knoblet do you actualy think winning Royal Rumble had cred from day one?

No it did not, hence why it needs to be built up by being won by established stars.
Chris Benoit...2004.

Dave Batista....2005.

Rey Mysterio....2006.

All examples of wrestlers that were rising upper mid-card wrestlers, and used the Royal Rumble as a platform to be propelled into the main-event scene.

Please do your research with more due diligence next time.

Moron.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:34 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Chris Benoit...2004.

Dave Batista....2005.

Rey Mysterio....2006.

All examples of wrestlers that were rising upper mid-card wrestlers, and used the Royal Rumble as a platform to be propelled into the main-event scene.

Please do your research with more due diligence next time.

Moron.
lol
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:35 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by sulzerdrone View Post
And neither does unprovoked attacks. I'm amazed Noid and Sting Fan are even debating you at this point.
Its my day off and Im waiting on some parts to come for my car, this is filling time for me.

Quote:
Chris Benoit...2004.

Dave Batista....2005.

Rey Mysterio....2006.

All examples of wrestlers that were rising upper mid-card wrestlers, and used the Royal Rumble as a platform to be propelled into the main-event scene.

Please do your research with more due diligence next time.

Moron.
Sorry I forgot the WWE Royal Rumble appeared for the first time in 2004, it had never been won by any superstar before and so Vinnie Mac shat gold by declaring the Royal Rumble to be the greatest match of all time leading you to a Mania Title shot.

Also Orton won last year - Established star.

Cena the Year befre - Established star.

Austin won it more than once I beleive - Established star at least once im going to guess.

Look I dont even have to research, my guesses are better informed than your research.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:35 PM   #50
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What planet are you from Mr. Jones? That's not how I, or any other human read that post. You're so wrapped up in your own bullshit that you're not even contemplating anyone elses ideas. Why don't you go take some anti-depressants, fuck your boyfriend, and get a good nights sleep. Maybe it'll clear your head a little.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:39 PM   #51
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lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfWEn...eature=related

p.s. lol?
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:44 PM   #52
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The only reason Mysterio won was because of Eddie Guerrero's death and after he won, he certainly wasn't propelled to main even status.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Your argument is completely predicated on the idea that the WWE does a good job of elevating talent...when this is clearly not the case. Again - look at Chavo Guerrero as an example (when he beat Rey Mysterio). Look at how the WWE screwed up with Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit.

The WWE's main goal should be in trying to create PERMANENT main-eventers....not temporary and transitional champions....and this has been their biggest fault.

Your post suggests that you expect the WWE to make Matt Hardy into a long-term main-eventer based on his recent actions. Given the WWE's track record however, this is not the case.
My post indicates that there is talent in the process of being elevated. WHY DOES IT NEED TO BE CM PUNK RIGHT FUCKING NOW AND NO ONE ELSE?!?!

See, cut out the caps, it is annoying. I couldn't even quote them they were so annoying.

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Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Not enough people care about ECW to respect Swagger's accomplishment. The moment Swagger steps on to RAW or Smackdown, he won't have anywhere near the "credibility" that you are suggesting.

As far as Morrison and Bourne goes - again....no one watches ECW. The WWE are at fault for not putting a match like that on RAW, while you are at fault for thinking that enough people will see/know about that match.
Hey, you actually made a post with some sense to it. Some. You are right about ECW not holding the credibility of RAW or SmackDown!, but Swagger has been allowed to have a competitive showing with John Cena. It is obvious the WWE wants him higher than the mid-card level. They are in the process of elevating him. Regardless of him becoming a smaller fish in a bigger pond, he's still not exactly going down, is he?

I think it is more pressing that those backstage watch the John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne match than the fans, pissant. They can look at these guys and say "these guys have the good" and feel safe about pushing them. Both guys are over, and the only way for them to really go is up.

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It doesn't "add to the drama" you stupid pissant.

Being a MITB champ is the modern day equivalent of being a King of the Ring champion. The winner should only be a guy that is on the verge of rising....and it serves no purpose to have the same guy win it back to back years, since it doesn't allow other new guys to use that 'title' as a stepping stone.

Since you seem to have a hard on for Evan Bourne, I would argue that a guy like Evan Bourne should win MITB next year.
Wrong. It is random mid-carders winning the World Title that makes them look like failures as main eventers, and justifies the WWE clinging to their already established talent, at least in their own minds.

The MITB match should not be for mid-carders. Mid-carders should not have a contract which states they are pretty much guaranteed to be a World Champion within a year. That is just fucking ridiculous. Why don't we just have Sim Snuka win the WWE Championship tomorrow?

Yeah, guys can use MITB to break-through, but having Kofi Kingston win the match this year, or Evan Bourne win it next year, are just not the strongest moves the WWE could make. A guy like CM Punk this year strengthens the match, and can provide weight to it next year.

If you hadn't noticed, MITB is just a way to get all the talent they can't fit in one-on-one programs on the WrestleMania card to showcase them. The World Title prize just heightens the importance of the booking. Just so it doesn't reek of filler. You are dealing with a World Title shot, though. That should not go to a mid-carder unless they are fucking ready to step up.

Have you maybe thought that the King of the Ring is the modern day equivalent to the King of the Ring? Just asking.

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Umm....actually there is you ignorant and stupid fuck.

One of the WWE's biggest problems right now is that no legit, non-transitional, main-eventers have been created in years. Guys like Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero do NOT count since they ultimately ended up in the same spot as they started out.....and never ascended back to that level.
Let's see, whether we like them or not, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Batista, Randy Orton, Edge, Chris Jericho, Big Show and The Undertaker are all WrestleMania headliners under contract. Rey Mysterio has wrestled in a World Heavyweight Title match at WrestleMania that wasn't the main event. That's over a fucking tournament. Considering that realistically, the ECW Title is not on that level, you need less than half those guys to formulate the entire main event title scene for WrestleMania.

* Chris Jericho vs. The Undertaker for the World Heavyweight Title
* Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels for the WWE Title

There you go, two matches set. The WWE has got plenty of main event talent floating around. Perhaps too much, if you ask me. Yeah, the older guys need to start putting over the younger guys, but that comes with them stepping out of the way, too.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:46 PM   #54
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He was Eddie shrunk in the wash and babyfaced up some more.
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