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Old 03-15-2004, 01:41 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
Sloppy-looking or not, the Crosface is still massively over as a finisher, and like the Diamond Cutter, he can hit it out of just about anything and the crowd will give a monster pop. That was the point I was getting at. (BTW, the Diamond Cutter was easily one of my favorite finishers)
Yeah, but outside the rolling germans, he never works the neck.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:42 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
Please. For half of those matches, Benoit was the dominant wrestler in them (although I'll admit the better ones were with Angle on top) You can't just discount the guy having an awesome match just because he had a good opponent.
Yeah, but when they need a good opponent you can.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:43 AM   #43
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Also there is the fact that there is no sizzle or spice to his moves, they are just dry and machenical.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:44 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Um, about a dozen indy wrestlers probably could as well..
The only indy wrestlers I can think of that even come close to Benoit are Jerry Lynn and Teddy Hart (and occasionally Christopher Daniels; I don't count Juvi because he was already big-time in WCW and AAA) Most other indy wrestlers just find newer and more complicated ways to drop each other on their heads and ruin their careers, with little to no psychology at all.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:45 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Yeah, but when they need a good opponent you can.
Yeah, and I suppose that the only reason that the A-Train mini-feud got any reaction was because the Wookie was such a great worker.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:50 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Yeah, but outside the rolling germans, he never works the neck.
What does that have to do with being over?
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:50 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
Yeah, and I suppose that the only reason that the A-Train mini-feud got any reaction was because the Wookie was such a great worker.
You see there, I think he is a decent worker, and I'm not just saying this to bash beniot, rather to give Albert some credit. For a 350lb man he can move around and wrestle some, he is no 5 star worker, but he is no lazy ass Bigshow/Kevin Nash. Besides for Kane, and sometime Taker and of course Lesnar, Albert/A-Train/Wookie is one of the best bigmen in the WWE today.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:50 AM   #48
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You know, all this is simply a matter of personal preferance, BDC has decided that he thinks Benoit is overrated and he in totally picking apart what he perceives to be his faults. Since this is a message board, he is allowed to do this and there is nothing wrong with that. The only thing is nearly everyone disagrees with him on this matter, but he realizes that and doesn't really care. At least he's not being an idiot about his opinion and is trying tp prove his point, although personally i disagree and think he is being way too harsh on Benoit.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:52 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
What does that have to do with being over?
Nothing, but his finisher attack the neck, his entire match should be attacking the neck and arms of his opponent, instead of that chopping, low drop kick to the knee bullshit, that is wasted motion. If he was such a good techical wrestler he would know that.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:53 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BasicThuganomics
You know, all this is simply a matter of personal preferance, BDC has decided that he thinks Benoit is overrated and he in totally picking apart what he perceives to be his faults. Since this is a message board, he is allowed to do this and there is nothing wrong with that. The only thing is nearly everyone disagrees with him on this matter, but he realizes that and doesn't really care. At least he's not being an idiot about his opinion and is trying tp prove his point, although personally i disagree and think he is being way too harsh on Benoit.
Thank you, and for that last time I used to like Benoit before he got boring. I was even going to get him to sign my Sabu action figure when Beniot came to town once, but then it was like an hour drive to get to the arena they were selling the tickets at and I could either afford ticket to Backlash or afford gas to Kemper and get crappy nose bleed tickets and a Chris Beniot signed Sabu action figure, I went with the floor seats.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:54 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
You see there, I think he is a decent worker, and I'm not just saying this to bash beniot, rather to give Albert some credit. For a 350lb man he can move around and wrestle some, he is no 5 star worker, but he is no lazy ass Bigshow/Kevin Nash. Besides for Kane, and sometime Taker and of course Lesnar, Albert/A-Train/Wookie is one of the best bigmen in the WWE today.
I agree, but I'm saying his feud with Benoit was a lot better than his usual stuff, mainly due to Benoit. I know that's kind of hypocritical of me for saying that after what I said earlier, but I do consider Benoit in a much higher caliber than A-Train.

Anyways, I'm going to bed. Shall we pick up where we left off tomorrow?
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:56 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Nothing, but his finisher attack the neck, his entire match should be attacking the neck and arms of his opponent, instead of that chopping, low drop kick to the knee bullshit, that is wasted motion. If he was such a good techical wrestler he would know that.
Look at the Crossface a little more closely (at least, the original version) Most of the time, he's not only wrenching back on the neck, but also digging his fingers into the opponent's eyes or mashing in on his nose. I don't know if you've ever been put into that sort of move, but it hurts like ever-loving hell. You'd probably want to tap out, too, previous neck-work or not.

Thought I'd make that point before turning in.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:59 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
Look at the Crossface a little more closely (at least, the original version) Most of the time, he's not only wrenching back on the neck, but also digging his fingers into the opponent's eyes or mashing in on his nose. I don't know if you've ever been put into that sort of move, but it hurts like ever-loving hell. You'd probably want to tap out, too, previous neck-work or not.

Thought I'd make that point before turning in.
Yeah, whatever, it never hurts to take out extra insurance, plus the neck is so easy to target, what with clothelines, suplexes, neckbreakers, neckwrenches, yada yada yada.
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Nothing, but his finisher attack the neck, his entire match should be attacking the neck and arms of his opponent, instead of that chopping, low drop kick to the knee bullshit, that is wasted motion. If he was such a good techical wrestler he would know that.

Well, BDC then you would say that his matches are boring because he always attacks the neck wouldn't you? You're looking into this too much IMO.
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Old 03-15-2004, 04:27 AM   #55
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I gotta agree with BDC for the most part. Benoit is a great wrestler but he has no charisma and his entire character just bores the hell out of me.
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Old 03-15-2004, 07:36 AM   #56
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[QUOTE=Nowhere Man]
I mean, in the past 14 months, Benoit's had three matches that the crowd (the marks, mind you, who make up a vast majority of the viewing audience) have given him a standing ovation simply for being that good. I can't think off the top of my head any other wrestler that's even had one match (that wasn't in their hometown) get a genuine standing O.
[QUOTE]

Edge & Christian & Hardyz after their No Mercy Ladder match in 99.
Got a standing ovation on the night, then a few minutes standing ovation on Raw the night after.
Shits all over Benoit

By the way, this was the 11th Wrestlemania Ive seen and its up there as one of the most disappointing ever
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:25 AM   #57
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Hi people, im new here and i was just searching through this thread and ahd to reply to it.
Basically, put yourself in benoit's position for a second BDC, youve been working in the business for 18 years or so and you finally get a wwe title and finally you get what youve worked for all your life, after countless tries and finally you get there and now all of a sudden you get critics like you shitting on all those efforts.Those are just minor faults your pointing out which are no different to any other wrestler in the wwe at the mo, so why are you singling out someone who's worked for a long-ass time in the business put his heart and life into it and not singling out someone like,i dunno erm The big show?I respect you have a right to your opinion, but i think the majority along with me think your opinion on benoit is a pile of bullshit.
Btw i also thought wrestlemania was a dissapointment, besides the main event and eddie vs angle.
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:33 AM   #58
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And post count is important. That and rep.
Post count is not important, it just shows who's been a geek for longer.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:07 PM   #59
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Benoit's gimmick is that he's a pitbull or a "wolverine", and his 5 minute matches are generally solid, so shut the hell up. The crowd pops for his spots, he bumps fr guys and makes them look good and always gets a big pop for the crossface. You sir, are a wad.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:58 PM   #60
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I wonder if after 18 years in the game working his ass off Benoit is even mildly disappointed about the belt he won ... all those years of graft & he wins a crappy old WCW belt that Booker T won 5 times & even Scott Steiner held .....
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:11 PM   #61
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Plus he already techincally held it in WCW...
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Old 03-17-2004, 05:32 AM   #62
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I thought that aswell that he had already won it in wcw, thats the tone thing i had against that storyline, i hated it when he came to raw cos i wanted him to wint he ACTUAL wwe title but they had to degrade him and give him the title he's already won before instead of winning the bigger won(even if it is on a show thats had msot of its roster stripped, kinda ironic thats the show that the real wwe title is on!)but i still think it was good he won it, especially considering it was against hhh/at mania and then it had eddie n benoit at the end of the show with the titles its about time he had a main event push, the title was just a bonus and fully deserved in my view...
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Old 03-17-2004, 06:38 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore Legend
I wonder if after 18 years in the game working his ass off Benoit is even mildly disappointed about the belt he won ... all those years of graft & he wins a crappy old WCW belt that Booker T won 5 times & even Scott Steiner held .....
David Arquette, Vince Russo?

I like Benoit, but I haven't really seen him at all lately as I'm just starting to get into wrestling again. Why I chose now... I've got no clue.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:11 AM   #64
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Benoit > Most

That is all.
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:53 AM   #65
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Hey, remeber earlier when I said ratings would suck with Beniot as champion?

Quote:
WWE Raw Rating Disappoints
By Triple A on March 17, 2004 at 4:41 AM EST

WWE Raw scored only a 4.0 rating, according to Dave Meltzer and Neilsen Media Research. That is only slightly up from last week's 3.8 rating and is a disappointment, considering it's the Raw the day after WrestleMania.
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:02 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Yeah, whatever, it never hurts to take out extra insurance, plus the neck is so easy to target, what with clothelines, suplexes, neckbreakers, neckwrenches, yada yada yada.
, "suplexes and clothelines", lol have you ever seen a Benoit Clothesline, it's pretty damned vicious. His whole gimmick is he's insanely stiff and hits you hard with everything no matter what. His moves need no sizzle and spice because no matter what he does, he hurts you. Though he should add the powerbomb back to his repertoire, it was awesome when he did it.
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:03 AM   #67
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4.0= better than the shit they've pulled in for a while. And believe me, it's gonna get a WHOLE LOT WORSE before it gets better.

-edit- plus when your lord and savior HHH was champ, I didn't see ratings exactly go through the roof.
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:05 AM   #68
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Nice way not to pay attention dale, idiot.

Now this isn't against Beniot, but Face champions suck as well, unless there like Hogan or something and take the world by storm.
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Old 03-17-2004, 01:14 PM   #69
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I paid attention, you were saying Benoit is boring and his moves are mechanical and you liked him back in the day but now you don't. I'm telling you he isn't boring and he has good moves numbnuts.
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Old 03-17-2004, 02:10 PM   #70
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Everyone else gets to crap on Triple H because he got so fat as of late, and very very slow. Benoit is a hell of an athlete, and he totally deserves to be Champion right now.

Hey no worries, I do like both Benoit, and HHH, but I think that he'll make a good champ.
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Old 03-17-2004, 04:49 PM   #71
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I gotta agree with BDC for the most part. I'm not really a Benoit fan. I'll give him credit that he is definitely gifted in the ring, but thats all he is. This is sports entertainment, and Benoit does not have the entertainment factor. Unlike most other stars, when his music plays, he just walks to the ring and waits for opponent. Also as a face he is dull, usually a face does something to get crowd reaction such as a hometown mention pop, and dealing with authority. I will admit he did good against Heyman in the beginning of the year, but that was mostly Cena that did the entertaining work there.
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Old 03-18-2004, 07:18 AM   #72
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I was waiting for BDC to point the ratings out when i saw it on tpww. But er, it doesn't really prove anything considering yes the ratings maybe poor, but look at the whole post and itll say they have gone up so what point are you tryna prove?
And benoit is not boring, his match was alot better than most of the other matches at mania the other night and he was one of the only few that was over with the crowd, so i can't really see where your coming from.You maybe not entertained by him, but the whole crowd were....
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
Oh, yeah, Benoit's dull and boring, because God knows the ability to cut a promo is the only thing that makes a wrestler any good. I mean, that's why Bret Hart (and the rest of the Hart Foundation for that matter, except Owen), Terry Funk, Harley Race, Rey Mysterio Jr., Andre the Giant, Big Van Vader, Rob Van Dam, Jimmy Snuka, and countless others all got over; based on their mic skills, not on anything else they ever did. Right?

I mean, in the past 14 months, Benoit's had three matches that the crowd (the marks, mind you, who make up a vast majority of the viewing audience) have given him a standing ovation simply for being that good. I can't think off the top of my head any other wrestler that's even had one match (that wasn't in their hometown) get a genuine standing O.

So the guy can't cut a promo. Then DON'T GIVE HIM PROMO SEGMENTS! Just because he doesn't do all the soap opera circus bullshit WWE is so keen on doesn't make him a boring wrestler.
eddie guerero got a standing O as a heel after jobbing to edge a couple of years ago. what is boring to me about chris benoit is that every time he has a match, I know before hand that it is going to end in the cross face. thats how all his matches end. i have an ameteur wrestling background, myself and i appreciate his skills and his matches are among the best. but its always all about the crippler cross face, and that is boring.
also, given the fact that he cannot cut a promo, there is going to be a disconnect between him and the fans. personally, i think his character should be a sadistic heel rather than a centimental face.
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:26 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman
BDC and Champion of Europa have proven themselves to be homosexuals.

To say that Benoit is 'boring' and will not draw is abusrd. Isn't it even remotely possible that Benoit will entertain the fans by being a FIGHTING champion?....a champion that consistently puts on great matches?
that would be great to see. but all your going to see ( on tv anyways) is a series of meaningless tag matches.
.........because wwe sucks!
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:30 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
But he doesn't. Besides ppvs, when is the last time beniot has put on a truely great preformance in the ring. And don't give me that "how can anyone have a good match in 5 minutes" bullshit. There have been some great 5 minute matches. He has been in some great 5 minute matches, but just not recently. It is all punch, chop, chop, chop, rolling german to rolling german to rolling german, flyinghead butt, attempted crossface, but opponet roles free, opponet gets in some offence, then crossface out of nowhere, and then Beniot wins. That is all the matches I've seen from him since he came back from surgery.
amen, brother. finally, the truth!!!
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:34 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man
Personally, I can't think of one good 5-minute match, much less a great one. As for Benoit's matches being predicatble, what about the Rock? Or Rob Van Dam? Or any number or wrestlers with "trademark spots" that they use in every match? Your whole point of singling out Benoit for his weak TV matches is horseshit, because that's pretty much what EVERY wrestler's TV performances are.
i disagree. ric flair, shawn micheals, eddie guerero, and tejiri, to name a few, all put on great tv matches and they are not always predictable.
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:36 PM   #77
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If I'm not mistaken, most of the time, When they talk about the Crossface, they always talk about his oppenent shoulder, in which, you pretty much see Beniot do Shoulder Breakers, Rams his Oppenents arm into the Steel Ring Post among others
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