Hmmmm, Daniel Bryan and Cm Punk are franchise players right?

[CSL]

Originally Posted by blake639raw I'm not debating anything you say here. My only point is that Punk isn't on Cena's level because the WWE doesn't want him to be, or see that value in him. Orton is untouchable, you're right. The WWE decided in 2002-03 that Cena & Orton were gonna be the big stars of this era. The WWE really hasn't gotten behind anybody new in such a big way since, so to blame Punk and say "Oh, he isn't on there level". Well, of course not, he hasn't gotten that multi year push. I don't know if he'll get to Cena's status or not, but I definitely think he could surpass Orton with time, as he's much more versatile.

Originally Posted by CSL If WWE really thought Punk was that guy, don't doubt for a second that he'd get the same treatment.

you seem to think making stars is as simple as pushing them for as long and as hard as possible and that couldn't be further from the truth. If CM Punk was destined to be the next huge professional wrestling superstar on "that scale", we would have seen it happen by now. You don't need to push a guy forever to get there, the guy will have something, it will click and then it snowballs. This isn't a slate on Punk as you seem to think it is, he's just never going to be "that guy". You can count on your fingers the guys in history that ever have been. And I don't at all see how Punk is "much more" versatile than Orton. I'd say he cuts a better heel promo and is probably more consistent in terms of match quality. That's about it. As for surpassing him, I highly doubt it. Listen to the reaction Orton gets despite the fact he's essentially been filling holes for the last 9-12 months whilst Punk has been having the push of his life. Kind of says it all.

[blake639raw]

Originally Posted by CSL you seem to think making stars is as simple as pushing them for as long and as hard as possible and that couldn't be further from the truth. If CM Punk was destined to be the next huge professional wrestling superstar on "that scale", we would have seen it happen by now. You don't need to push a guy forever to get there, the guy will have something, it will click and then it snowballs. This isn't a slate on Punk as you seem to think it is, he's just never going to be "that guy". You can count on your fingers the guys in history that ever have been. And I don't at all see how Punk is "much more" versatile than Orton. I'd say he cuts a better heel promo and is probably more consistent in terms of match quality. That's about it. As for surpassing him, I highly doubt it. Listen to the reaction Orton gets despite the fact he's essentially been filling holes for the last 9-12 months whilst Punk has been having the push of his life. Kind of says it all.

It's just that Cena has to be the least liked top babyface ever. Once he became a main eventer, they dropped everything from his act that got him over so big in the first place. If any other top babyface got the reactions he got, they would have been depushed. Cena has got booed by half the crowd for years, and they play it off by saying he's "controversial." No matter how much they try, nobody really see's him on the level of The Rock or Hogan. I'm not saying that Punk is necessarily the "next big thing", or anything like that, but at least he's a babyface that doesn't get booed out of every building. No avenue of business has increased with Cena on top besides merch sales. And also, I don't believe that all it takes is a big push to get to the top. However, that's pretty much what they have done with Cena really. Austin, Hogan, Rock, or none of those guys had to win as much as Cena did to make a name. It just seems that the WWE doesn't know how to build stars longterm anymore, and there plan with Cena was just to have him plow through everybody, instead of listening to the crowds.

[blake639raw]

Originally Posted by blake639raw It's just that Cena has to be the least liked top babyface ever. Once he became a main eventer, they dropped everything from his act that got him over so big in the first place. If any other top babyface got the reactions he got, they would have been depushed. Cena has got booed by half the crowd for years, and they play it off by saying he's "controversial." No matter how much they try, nobody really see's him on the level of The Rock or Hogan. I'm not saying that Punk is necessarily the "next big thing", or anything like that, but at least he's a babyface that doesn't get booed out of every building. No avenue of business has increased with Cena on top besides merch sales. And also, I don't believe that all it takes is a big push to get to the top. However, that's pretty much what they have done with Cena really. Austin, Hogan, Rock, or none of those guys had to win as much as Cena did to make a name. It just seems that the WWE doesn't know how to build stars longterm anymore, and there plan with Cena was just to have him plow through everybody, instead of listening to the crowds.

Ok, well, maybe Hogan did, but times were different back then. Plus, people weren't sick to death of him winning all the time.