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Old 10-20-2015, 02:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
And in regards to my post above, Roman Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins NEEDS to headline this show. There is nothing else that will interest me.

Rollins and Ambrose have both been shit hot since the SHIELD split. They're two of the best in-ring talents, two of the best talkers, and they're both fucking over! Reigns will get the "What?" treatment, but he's no slouch, and will certainly deliver the goods in this match.

Besides that, this match is fresh! It's about time some new faces close the biggest show of the year. These guys will put on a great match, the feud will be great. All three guys are as over and as established as they'll ever be. It's time for WWE to pull the trigger and let them show the world what they can do.

Or... we can look forward to John Cena in the main event AGAIN. "Dwayne" coming back again. Or the Undertaker.

Same. Old. Shit.
WWE usually has the big title match go on last. So you can still have the big stars in other matches and have The Shield boys go last.

If HHH vs Rock is on this show, I don't think it goes on last. If Austin vs Lesnar happens, I could see that going on last.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Well all the Manias between 15 and 17 didn't rely on outside help. 17 was literally the peak of the Attitude Era. Unfortunately they don't have the mainstream appeal they did then. Beyond that, even though 17 was critically acclaimed, it isn't the most purchased show in history.

I like the way Mania is set up right now. It's the only stadium show of the year, so it should have special features. If you don't include part timers then Mania becomes Summerslam. That doesn't seem like a smart strategy. Even more important with The Network where Mania anchors your subscription base. You need as many bells and whistles to keep people entertained.

To me as long as the guys like Hunter, Rock, Taker, etc can have good matches, they help being part of the show. Taker putting over Brock to this day helps Brocks gimmick. Rock working with Cena was huge business. Triple H putting over Bryan clean created a special moment. Triple H vs Sting with the NWO and DX involvement created a special moment. Mania needs those special moments to elevate it from the other shows on the calendar.

No offense to CM Punk, but he's a delusional character. He's only concerned about himself, doesn't see the bigger picture.
I don't mind having one or two part timers, but how does it help the product throughout the rest of the year? The context in which I used CM Punk's quotes weren't related to Punk himself, but to the product. Why would a casual fan who tunes in for Wrestlemania give a shit about a guy like Dolph Ziggler if he only appears in clusterfuck throwaway matches on the biggest stage of the year? Guys like Triple H, Undertaker, Rock etc have had countless Wrestlemania moments. They need to start giving the spotlight to today's superstars, so that they can use that Wrestlemania exposure to elevate themselves.

Triple H, Undertaker, The Rock, John Cena, Sting, Brock Lesnar etc will not be able to carry Wrestlemania events for the rest of their lives. What happens when they hang up the boots for good? Who'll carry the show then? Cody Rhodes?
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:45 PM   #43
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To me Lesnar v Austin is different.

They have the backstory of Austin walking out on a fight with Lesnar.

You have Austin returning after more than 10 years in a city that is very special to him.

You have Austin's health as a sympathetic factor going against a living breathing monster.

It's not just some random fight. It could be one of the greatest stories in WWE history.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:48 PM   #44
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Don't see Austin/Lesnar happening and don't know why anyone would want it to. Austin couldn't have a good match with Lesnar for his neck. You think Austin could take multiple suplexes on his neck. The match would suck and probably get Austin hurt.

Id like to see Sting work a match with Stardust at Mania if he can.

Don't want to see a Shield triple threat either as it would probably be used to put Reigns over.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:49 PM   #45
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Nah, Austin is 52 and is not gonna be anyway near the condition he use to be in. Plus, I have no desire to see his beer gut in spandex trunks at Wrestlemania. The backstory of Austin walking out on Lesnar ten years ago won't even be mentioned, considering that WWE hasn't even acknowledged that this isn't the first time Lesnar and Undertaker have met at Hell in a Cell. Austin's had his run. It was fantastic. But I have no desire to see that now. Next.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:51 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
Don't want to see a Shield triple threat either as it would probably be used to put Reigns over.
I wouldn't mind whatever the outcome is. I think Reigns winning will get shit all over like the Royal Rumble this year, but I think the main thing is that the main event status will elevate all three men anyway, regardless of who wins.

Ambrose winning would get an unbelievable pop so that'd be cool though.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:52 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
I don't mind having one or two part timers, but how does it help the product throughout the rest of the year? The context in which I used CM Punk's quotes weren't related to Punk himself, but to the product. Why would a casual fan who tunes in for Wrestlemania give a shit about a guy like Dolph Ziggler if he only appears in clusterfuck throwaway matches on the biggest stage of the year? Guys like Triple H, Undertaker, Rock etc have had countless Wrestlemania moments. They need to start giving the spotlight to today's superstars, so that they can use that Wrestlemania exposure to elevate themselves.

Triple H, Undertaker, The Rock, John Cena, Sting, Brock Lesnar etc will not be able to carry Wrestlemania events for the rest of their lives. What happens when they hang up the boots for good? Who'll carry the show then? Cody Rhodes?
Similar reason to why the Super Bowl has an elaborate half time show and when you watch a week 7 game its a bunch of geeks yacking. More people tune into the Super Bowl because you are using a bigger net and you hope that translates to more long term fans.

Taker is a loss that is likely around the corner although I believe his value has drastically decreased after the streak.

Cena is still a full timer. He can probably go as a full timer for another 10 years if he wants to. At the very least he can do years of work as a part time. Rock and Hunter are in great shape, they could be doing one off matches for ten years plus.

Randy Orton can transition to that role, Batista can do it, Punk when he comes back. And you just keep cycling guys through.

Besides, you're advocating for no part timers, so if you think Mania will fall off a cliff without them, why suggest that?
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:54 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Don't see Austin/Lesnar happening and don't know why anyone would want it to. Austin couldn't have a good match with Lesnar for his neck. You think Austin could take multiple suplexes on his neck. The match would suck and probably get Austin hurt.

Id like to see Sting work a match with Stardust at Mania if he can.

Don't want to see a Shield triple threat either as it would probably be used to put Reigns over.
Most Austin fights are brawl style, kick punch mostly. Part of the storyline could be Austin can't take suplexes like other guys. You need maybe 3 in the whole fight to tell an effective story.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:55 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Nah, Austin is 52 and is not gonna be anyway near the condition he use to be in. Plus, I have no desire to see his beer gut in spandex trunks at Wrestlemania. The backstory of Austin walking out on Lesnar ten years ago won't even be mentioned, considering that WWE hasn't even acknowledged that this isn't the first time Lesnar and Undertaker have met at Hell in a Cell. Austin's had his run. It was fantastic. But I have no desire to see that now. Next.
Hogan was well past his prime when he worked Rock at 18. If I recall correctly I think that got over.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:57 PM   #50
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I'm not saying Wrestlemania will fail without them, but if WWE don't do something with their talent now, when these guys finally do retire, they won't have any "big names" to carry the product.

I don't even know why we're arguing this. It's my opinion vs. yours. I won't change your mind and you're not gonna change mine. I'm just sick and tired of the same part timers every year. If you think it's a winning formula then great, enjoy Wrestlemania 32. It's not going to help the ratings throughout the rest of the year though, just like it hasn't done the last four or five years.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:57 PM   #51
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Quote:
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I wouldn't mind whatever the outcome is. I think Reigns winning will get shit all over like the Royal Rumble this year, but I think the main thing is that the main event status will elevate all three men anyway, regardless of who wins.

Ambrose winning would get an unbelievable pop so that'd be cool though.
Its been done before but just do a tie at Rumble between Ambrose and Reigns
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:57 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
Hogan was well past his prime when he worked Rock at 18. If I recall correctly I think that got over.
I don't see Lesnar being as safe to work with as The Rock.

And if I recall, Hogan never broke his neck. Quite a serious injury, that.
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Old 10-20-2015, 02:58 PM   #53
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Most Austin fights are brawl style, kick punch mostly. Part of the storyline could be Austin can't take suplexes like other guys. You need maybe 3 in the whole fight to tell an effective story.
Still don't want to see it. Would rather Brock face the Rock at Mania. Austin can host the show or be a special guest referee in a match, just dont think the guy can do a match.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:00 PM   #54
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I'm exactly with Simple Fan. The Rock, at least, is still in fantastic physical shape, would be a huge draw outside of wrestling, and, let's face it, is fucking huge. Austin has put on weight and is probably nowhere near the shape he use to be in, and, let's be honest here, hasn't really done much outside of wrestling that non-wrestling fans care about.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:01 PM   #55
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I'm not saying Wrestlemania will fail without them, but if WWE don't do something with their talent now, when these guys finally do retire, they won't have any "big names" to carry the product.

I don't even know why we're arguing this. It's my opinion vs. yours. I won't change your mind and you're not gonna change mine. I'm just sick and tired of the same part timers every year. If you think it's a winning formula then great, enjoy Wrestlemania 32. It's not going to help the ratings throughout the rest of the year though, just like it hasn't done the last four or five years.
I'm not trying to change your mind, just pointing out the fallacy in your logic.

WWE used guys like HBK, Hogan, and Flair at Manias. They are all gone. Mania is still wildly successful. Brock, Rock and Hunter can be special attractions for another 10 years. So what's the concern?

New guys are still getting over like Bryan, Reigns, Rollins, etc. A lot of those guys got rubs from the part timers you hate.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:01 PM   #56
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But I'd rather not see the Rock either. I'd rather Brock face someone on the roster he hasn't faced yet. Just can't think of who'd fit right now.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:02 PM   #57
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I don't see Lesnar being as safe to work with as The Rock.

And if I recall, Hogan never broke his neck. Quite a serious injury, that.
Of course. All of this is predicated in Austin being medically cleared for ONE fight.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:03 PM   #58
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I'm exactly with Simple Fan. The Rock, at least, is still in fantastic physical shape, would be a huge draw outside of wrestling, and, let's face it, is fucking huge. Austin has put on weight and is probably nowhere near the shape he use to be in, and, let's be honest here, hasn't really done much outside of wrestling that non-wrestling fans care about.
The match would be in like 6 months not tomorrow. I'm sure Austin would do a couple sit ups
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:03 PM   #59
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I'm not trying to change your mind, just pointing out the fallacy in your logic.

WWE used guys like HBK, Hogan, and Flair at Manias. They are all gone. Mania is still wildly successful. Brock, Rock and Hunter can be special attractions for another 10 years. So what's the concern?

New guys are still getting over like Bryan, Reigns, Rollins, etc. A lot of those guys got rubs from the part timers you hate.
It's not so much "my concern" as it is that I'm fucking bored of seeing the same people over and over. I want to see guys like Dolph Ziggler finally get a decent Wrestlemania moment, and actually get elevated to a level where he can be seen as a legit main-eventer.

It's just become very formulaic every year now.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:04 PM   #60
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But I'd rather not see the Rock either. I'd rather Brock face someone on the roster he hasn't faced yet. Just can't think of who'd fit right now.
That would be fine.

Rollins or Reigns is the most logical
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:04 PM   #61
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Brock Lesnar vs. Bruno Sammartino
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:05 PM   #62
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Maybe dig out Chris Benoit and book him too. The ultimate heel.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:07 PM   #63
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I know Reigns didn't win the match, but I liked Reigns vs Lesnar from this years Wrestlemania. Even though Reigns took as ass-whooping pretty much the entire match, the fact he kept fighting on, and even smiled about it all, really endeared him to the fans.

The same could work, in theory, for anyone. I don't wanna see Lesnar get wasted on a guy like Austin, who'll be gone the next night.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:14 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
I know Reigns didn't win the match, but I liked Reigns vs Lesnar from this years Wrestlemania. Even though Reigns took as ass-whooping pretty much the entire match, the fact he kept fighting on, and even smiled about it all, really endeared him to the fans.

The same could work, in theory, for anyone. I don't wanna see Lesnar get wasted on a guy like Austin, who'll be gone the next night.
That would be good, it just obviously not as big of an event.

Owens is the other potentially interesting option to me
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:17 PM   #65
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That would be good, it just obviously not as big of an event.

Owens is the other potentially interesting option to me
That's where WWE needs to consider what's more important. The one-off event, or the rest of the year.

Austin vs. Lesnar will garner more interest than Owens vs. Lesnar, no doubt. But Austin will be gone the next night, and the product will be left to flounder for the rest of the year. They'll have to sacrifice one for the other.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:33 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
That's where WWE needs to consider what's more important. The one-off event, or the rest of the year.

Austin vs. Lesnar will garner more interest than Owens vs. Lesnar, no doubt. But Austin will be gone the next night, and the product will be left to flounder for the rest of the year. They'll have to sacrifice one for the other.
No doubt, but it's a balance.

Lesnar will be around going forward. If beating Austin elevates his profile like beating Taker did, then you've helped the product for the rest of the year.

Maybe at the next Mania a guy like Reigns or Owens goes over a super strong Brock.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:43 PM   #67
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Shield 3 way for Title
Cena vs. Taker
Triple H vs. Rock
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:43 PM   #68
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No doubt, but it's a balance.

Lesnar will be around going forward. If beating Austin elevates his profile like beating Taker did, then you've helped the product for the rest of the year.

Maybe at the next Mania a guy like Reigns or Owens goes over a super strong Brock.

Don't think a win over Austin would elevate him like Taker did. Nonoe thought Lesnar would win that match. Everyone knows Brock would go over Austin.
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:18 PM   #69
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Lesnar ended the streak and beat the face of the company twice in a row in a complete squash match. He's a former UFC heavyweight champion. There is nothing more that WWE can do to elevate Lesnar or make him look strong. Beating a 52-year-old who's well past his prime and hasn't wrestled in 12 years certainly won't do that.

On the other hand, in 10, or 15 years time, when Undertaker, Triple H, Sting and Lesnar have retired for good and aren't the "special attraction" matches anymore, who's gonna fill that spot? Sheamus? Dolph Ziggler? (and that's rhetorical, please don't give me any shite about "Triple H could still have another 15 years in him" because I'm being hypothetical).
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:21 PM   #70
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Cena, he's definitely going to be the ultra-super-mega part timer
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:28 PM   #71
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Yea Cena and Orton are about to switch to part time before long. Orton's got a dislocated shoulder and Cena taking time off so we could see WWE trying to elevate guys while their out.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:20 PM   #72
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Quote:
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Lesnar ended the streak and beat the face of the company twice in a row in a complete squash match. He's a former UFC heavyweight champion. There is nothing more that WWE can do to elevate Lesnar or make him look strong. Beating a 52-year-old who's well past his prime and hasn't wrestled in 12 years certainly won't do that.

On the other hand, in 10, or 15 years time, when Undertaker, Triple H, Sting and Lesnar have retired for good and aren't the "special attraction" matches anymore, who's gonna fill that spot? Sheamus? Dolph Ziggler? (and that's rhetorical, please don't give me any shite about "Triple H could still have another 15 years in him" because I'm being hypothetical).
You only need a few of those guys. Most likely the guys who are top guys today and have 10+ year runs on top will become the new generation of part time acts who come in to help Mania seem special.

The WWE hasnt stopped creating stars nor will they between now and Mania 47 which you seem so concerned about.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:55 PM   #73
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Soooooooo if they're creating new "stars"... then why do we need the same handful of guys to come back every Wrestlemania? Why not at other PPV's also?
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:22 PM   #74
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There is literally two top guys right now; Cena and Lesnar. Neither are going to be wrestling or carrying the company over the next ten years, seeing as they're both creeping up on 40 years of age. Especially Cena. He's a fucking workhorse but how much can that body take as it enters the second half of its life span?
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:26 PM   #75
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WWE World Heavyweight Title Match (Guest Referee/Enforcer: Steve Austin)
Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins (c)

WWE United States Title vs Career Match
John Cena vs Samoa Joe (c)

The Rock and Johnny "Motherfucking" Curtis vs Triple H and Batista

Retirement Match
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels

WWE Intercontinental Title Match
Daniel Bryan vs Kevin Owens (c)

WWE World Tag Team Title Match
Sheamus and Rusev vs The Usos

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Chris Jericho vs Dean Ambrose

WWE Divas Title Match
Asuka vs Paige (c)

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Old 10-23-2015, 02:45 PM   #76
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There is literally two top guys right now; Cena and Lesnar. Neither are going to be wrestling or carrying the company over the next ten years, seeing as they're both creeping up on 40 years of age. Especially Cena. He's a fucking workhorse but how much can that body take as it enters the second half of its life span?
I think he's got at least 5 years left as a full timer. Another 5-10 as a part time. Depending how his body holds up
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:52 PM   #77
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Triple Threat Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Seth Rollins (c) vs. Roman Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose

The Undertaker vs. John Cena

Brock Lesnar vs. Samoa Joe

Six-Man Tag Team Match
Evolution vs. The Wyatt Family

Divas Championship
Charlotte (c) vs. Sasha Banks

WWE Tag Team Championship
The New Day (c) vs. The Usos

Intercontinental Championship
Kevin Owens (c) vs. Daniel Bryan

10-Diva Tag Team Match
The Bella Twins, Paige, Emma & Asuka vs. Trish Stratus, Lita, Becky Lynch, Natalya & Bayley

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal
Everyone else, baby!

United States Championship
Dolph Ziggler (c) vs. Cesaro

* I had Ziggler winning the US Title at Hell in a Cell, but now my dream booking is to have Samoa Joe win the title and get a proper run with it. That would have logically extended under WrestleMania, but I just like the idea of slimeball Ziggler defending the US Title against Cesaro with his new manager, Lana, so much. It could be a tremendous opening match for WrestleMania. So I have Joe eliminate Brock in the Royal Rumble (Joe is undefeated at this point). Brock tears up the place and screams at Joe, who gets out of the ring and gets in Brock's face basically asking Brock what is he going to do about it. Brock and Joe fight, and in the chaos, Joe is eliminated officially. Brock then costs Joe the US Title to Ziggler at Fastlane and their match at WrestleMania is set. It might not *seem* special right now, but I think if they go balls-in with Joe, they can make a fair bit of money out of him over the next year or so.

* I bring back the Battle Royal, and this is where all your other guys get a spot. Big Show is returning to try and defend his victory, Damien Sandow has got something to prove in the match, as does Hideo Itami who got to compete in the previous installment. Sheamus is in there, as is Mark Henry, The Dudley Boyz...you get the drill.

* The women's tag is basically there to showcase some of the stronger workers and bigger stars in the division. Ideally, I'd like to have a tournament for some women's tag belts, but I think that *for Mania*, showing these stars all bouncing off each other might put a better spotlight and less pressure on the division. You'd have Alicia Fox and Dana Brooke at ringside with the heels, and maybe Sara Lee at ringside with the faces.

* Owens vs. Bryan could have such a great story behind it. I'd be careful with him, but there is the story of his WrestleMania comeback to tell. He never lost the World Title, he never lost the IC Title, he wants to prove he can still be champion. Owens is the right sort of guy to put against Bryan too. They could milk concern that Owens is going to end Bryan's career. I'd keep the Owens vs. Zayn match in my back-pocket, as the main roster story between them hasn't been told yet.

* The New Day vs. The Usos is basically your top heel tag team defending against the guys you want your top face team to be. It's not really rocket science. This would be another good choice for an opener.

* Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks seems like the most obvious choice for a Women's Title program at WrestleMania as there could be. I switch the title from Charlotte to Sasha at the Royal Rumble, with some shenanigans involved, and Banks successfully beats a strong face at Fastlane whilst Charlotte trains for her rematch. I think having the title switch hands gives Charlotte a traditional story of redemption, and having the match at the Royal Rumble is going to create a stir around those two, which can be used to mine out the Mania match.

* Triple H has to be on the card, realistically. I don't really see a big money match they can do with him that doesn't involve The Rock. By the way, I'm working under the assumption that I don't have access to The Rock or Ronda Rousey due to scheduling. At this point, Triple H's heel heat has died down, so maybe he finds himself crossed by Bray Wyatt, who decides he wants to "burn WWE to the ground." Or maybe Bray and his misfists turn face and rebel against Authority. Either way, I see Triple H giving a call to his buddies -- Randy Orton and Batista -- and reminding them that their resentment for each other was what drove them to be such big success stories.

* I talked about Lesnar vs. Joe. It's the biggest "smark match" on my card (well, except for maybe Ziggler vs. Cesaro, but I gave that the Lana attraction), but I still defend it as something for Brock to do. Who else is he going to face? Undertaker? Rollins? Cena? Triple H? They've either been done or have the same problem of people not buying into Brock's opponent. A clean win over Cena, an undefeated streak heading into the Royal Rumble, eliminating Brock, getting screwed out of his title, wanting to fight Brock -- I think there's enough of a throughline there where people might get on board.

* The Undertaker vs. John Cena is me going into "huge match, huge match, what's our biggest match for the casual fan?" mode. They've kept Undertaker and Cena apart for a very long time, and there is a story of two very different franchises clashing at WrestleMania. Cena can return at the Royal Rumble, he can make it right up until the end, then he gets tossed out by Reigns. Cena needs to prove himself at WrestleMania. "I need to beat you, Taker."

* Roman Reigns eliminates John Cena last to win the 2016 Royal Rumble. Dean Ambrose defeats Sheamus in a Money in the Bank Ladder Match at Fastlane. "You know what happens now, boys." They've protected this exact presentation of their issues, and there's no better time to let them slug it out than at WrestleMania. The crowd reactions for each man will be interesting. There's drama in Rollins' past coming back to bite him, but he gets to come out and stand tall and proud of being WWE World Champion for the entire year at this point.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:30 AM   #78
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Fun card but you realize Batista is a big deal in Hollywood right now? I doubt he's coming back to be put in a random 6 man tag.

Also tough to imagine Brock being up for a match with an indy guy. Like where's the heat? Yes i get 500 of the 12k in the building will be loudly chanting this is awesome, but for the masses is a gross waste of Brock name value.

Maybe if Joe comes to the WWE and dominates for a year, sure. But out of the blue, kinda wreak IMO.

Taker v Cena seems like a lose lose. If you have Cena lose to Taker it continues to make Cena look weak, which is a bad idea. If Cena wins it makes Taker look sad.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:40 AM   #79
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To me if Bryan can go, he has to be fighting for the title. Anything else and the crowd will crap on it. Nothing would kick off 2016 better than if Bryan was a surprise entry at the Rumble and won.

That would actually play perfectly into the Hunter-Rollins storyline. If Rollins dropped the title to Bryan, HHH could go off, and you got the Rollins babyface turn.

Further, Sheamus a couple months after Mania beating Bryan by cashing in MITB would be perfect because you would have multiple instances where Sheamus beat him in quick matches.

Assuming no Bryan. Another option I wouldn't mind seeing is a Shield Triple Threat. Reigns cheats to win and at the end opens his vest to reveal his I'm a Paul Heyman guy tshirt.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:44 AM   #80
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I wouldn't call Joe an Indy guy. Sure he was in ROH but a majority of his career was spent in TNA. Joe vs Brock would be a hell of a fight and I believe more than 500 would think its awesome. Yea it be better if Joe was on the roster prior to WM but Joe answering a Brock Lesnar WM open challenge would get quite a pop.
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