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Old 10-06-2021, 01:34 PM   #1
Bad News Gertner
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If it wasn't Vince someone else would have. Probably Bill Watts. Look at how Pro Wrestling USA and SuperClash turned out. These promoters would have cut each other's throat.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:28 PM   #2
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If it wasn't Vince someone else would have. Probably Bill Watts. Look at how Pro Wrestling USA and SuperClash turned out. These promoters would have cut each other's throat.
what vince did was a logical lateral move...for a highly educated buisness man. his contemporaries certainly lacked the forsight and acumen to do what he did and any would be rivals with a similar vision had the road block of both not having the necessary knowledge to operate are carny operation or even an entry to it and then the issue is magnified by the fact that no outsider could see the potential in the medium.

vince sat in a position so unique that i think it could have been another century before some had not only the idea but the means to do what he did.

could others have? maybe. but vince was in a miracle position with a miracle idea and while its certainly super cool to shit on him he remains the single most inportant figure im wrestling history and it serves no one to pretend otherwise.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:36 PM   #3
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what vince did was a logical lateral move...for a highly educated buisness man. his contemporaries certainly lacked the forsight and acumen to do what he did and any would be rivals with a similar vision had the road block of both not having the necessary knowledge to operate are carny operation or even an entry to it and then the issue is magnified by the fact that no outsider could see the potential in the medium.

vince sat in a position so unique that i think it could have been another century before some had not only the idea but the means to do what he did.

could others have? maybe. but vince was in a miracle position with a miracle idea and while its certainly super cool to shit on him he remains the single most inportant figure im wrestling history and it serves no one to pretend otherwise.

It also helped having that idea in the biggest "attraction" city in the U.S.A in New York.
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Old 10-06-2021, 02:28 PM   #4
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I don’t think Vince going national and killing the territories is what actually fucked up the business. Someone else may have handled the situation better in the long run. Or maybe not. We’ll never know. We do know what Vince did though. He built his “sports entertainment” empire at the expense the wrestling business.

No one else may have had the short-term vision to bring it to the highs it’s seen but would they also bring it to the lows? By any metrics that can be compared less people care about wrestling now than maybe ever before. And that happened while Vince was king.
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Old 10-06-2021, 03:42 PM   #5
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I don’t think Vince going national and killing the territories is what actually fucked up the business. Someone else may have handled the situation better in the long run. Or maybe not. We’ll never know. We do know what Vince did though. He built his “sports entertainment” empire at the expense the wrestling business.

No one else may have had the short-term vision to bring it to the highs it’s seen but would they also bring it to the lows? By any metrics that can be compared less people care about wrestling now than maybe ever before. And that happened while Vince was king.
Not as much as Vince, but Bischoff handed Vince a wrestling monopoly on a platter. He wasn’t the only one who helped run WCW into the ground, but he got it healthy again just to make it sick.

But I think the nature of national television, international television and the internet was always going to hurt wrestling per capita because of exposure. You can only see something so many times before it starts to have a dampened impact.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:21 PM   #6
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and more importantly nonfans obviously exist so even if a casual werent a thing its a completely moot topic in of itself
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:31 PM   #7
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and again i could write fpr days on how his actions traded an industry of middle class jobs into a handful of guys making true wealth; which is to say not everything he did worked out great for everyone but he clearly deserves a huge ammount of credit for what it was he did do.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:37 PM   #8
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absolutely valid. it was a perfect storm on a scale so grand youd struggle to call it anyrhing other than destiny
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:44 PM   #9
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imagine for instance if vince sr had been an nwa affiliate and vince was raised with respect for the institution. would a national conglomerate emerged out of new york? i think possibly no. theres a myriad of subtle details that conspired to allow this powder keg to explode. remove any single aspect and its completely plausible it never happens and certainly plausible its greatly delayed.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:46 PM   #10
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its not like this wrestling renaissance was organically occuring globally across all the pockets of wrestling sub cultures. it was one place at one time. even with the blue print its been EXCEEDINGLY difficult to mirror.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:47 PM   #11
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whether or not it was a good thing...well thats another topic. same for bischoff and his efforts
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:49 PM   #12
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my point is its not obvious this was inevitable and its not reasonable to say it was simple.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:24 PM   #13
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Ricky Starks was getting coached because he was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs to be cutting that promo, can I get a hell yeah?

Some talents may need more scripted angles, but others don't. Starks was shown during some pretty vulnerable moments on that show. But truth is and I know it hurts, Rhodes to the Top is the best wrestling reality show since Hogan Know's Best, and that's a shoot, Jack.

And brother, let me tell you one more thing Jack. WWE is just like that 800lbs STINKING Giant that once got lifted so high a slammed to the mat. It's old, immobile and LONG DEAD my man, ahahahahahaha!
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:35 PM   #14
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Ricky Starks was getting coached because he was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs to be cutting that promo, can I get a hell yeah?

Some talents may need more scripted angles, but others don't. Starks was shown during some pretty vulnerable moments on that show. But truth is and I know it hurts, Rhodes to the Top is the best wrestling reality show since Hogan Know's Best, and that's a shoot, Jack.

And brother, let me tell you one more thing Jack. WWE is just like that 800lbs STINKING Giant that once got lifted so high a slammed to the mat. It's old, immobile and LONG DEAD my man, ahahahahahaha!
I have no problem with it other than them constantly crowing about how they dont use scripted promos.because they are good, unlike WWE who does and is bad.

If they didn't act like smug assholes Barry Horowitzing themselves on the back constantly for not using scripted promos, I wouldn't care that Ricky Starks had a scripted promo. For me at least, it's that simple. They can either not tell the lie, or they can not expose the lie.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:43 PM   #15
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i dont think its reasonable to say they've lied in this instance. you have a guy who's struggling with a promo. you help him by giving him a detailed plan of action in a 1 on 1 setting. this is not the same as having a company wide edict where no one has a voice of their own. this isnt a guy who's begging to speak and being shut out.

i think you're caught up in the letter of the law and youve lost the spirit of it.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:00 PM   #16
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i dont think its reasonable to say they've lied in this instance. you have a guy who's struggling with a promo. you help him by giving him a detailed plan of action in a 1 on 1 setting. this is not the same as having a company wide edict where no one has a voice of their own. this isnt a guy who's begging to speak and being shut out.

i think you're caught up in the letter of the law and youve lost the spirit of it.
Yeah you are mostly right. I don't have a problem with it fundamentally, but when I saw that my reaction was "come on". They are surely the producers of that show, that can't make the final cut after making that a big selling point for so long. My reaction was based off them selling it as something different this whole time.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:45 PM   #17
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scripted promos arent the issue theyre a symptom
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:01 PM   #18
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their propaganda has lacked nuance for sure
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:15 PM   #19
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There will be no new boom period until all wrestling companies and brands embrace wrestlers wearing capes to the ring

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Old 10-06-2021, 07:18 PM   #20
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#ElGenerico4worldcamp
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:25 PM   #21
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It's time for the Baron Von Raschke comeback we've all been waiting for.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:34 PM   #22
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:38 PM   #23
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