On the Marathon...

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hardcore fans make such a big deal about the 18-49 demo. They’re missing the wider appeal the WWE is going for with international markets, women, POC and kids. They miss that there’s a huge difference between the advertising revenue you can generate with a PG show and an explicit one. They’re missing that so much of that 18-49 demo is on streaming now. They love to remind people when AEW’s ratings are so low compared to wrestling of the past (never mind now), but forget it when they think about how advertisers can best reach them.

They miss the difference between 1.1 million, mostly the same fans, watching a show every week versus how many unique viewers WWE possibly gets. I don’t know if they’re getting the same 1.9 million every week. They also love to compare a two-hour Dynamite block that is measured as one slot against three separate slots of Monday Night Raw, removing the context of how well it does in that later position on Mondays away from it. People don’t compare that third hour to Rampage, do they?

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect Hardcore fans make such a big deal about the 18-49 demo. They’re missing the wider appeal the WWE is going for with international markets, women, POC and kids. They miss that there’s a huge difference between the advertising revenue you can generate with a PG show and an explicit one. They’re missing that so much of that 18-49 demo is on streaming now. They love to remind people when AEW’s ratings are so low compared to wrestling of the past (never mind now), but forget it when they think about how advertisers can best reach them. They miss the difference between 1.1 million, mostly the same fans, watching a show every week versus how many unique viewers WWE possibly gets. I don’t know if they’re getting the same 1.9 million every week. They also love to compare a two-hour Dynamite block that is measured as one slot against three separate slots of Monday Night Raw, removing the context of how well it does in that later position on Mondays away from it. People don’t compare that third hour to Rampage, do they?

I agree with you it's noticeable that WWE has a strong push for the next wave of talents and are very focused on getting a strong connection with black audiences in particular, which is great. They have a bunch of great talent coming up, and you'd think by five years from now they could be on the verge of something really cool if the booking is good.

The thing with ratings that always gets me with you is this. Let's take that 1.9 million for Raw/WWE. Let's say that is their average. That is near the same numbers TNA used to get, and yet you slam AEW for getting at or below TNA numbers.

It's irrelevant! Irrelevant because in the US, there is a large amount of people who do not use a traditional cable subscription any more. I'm not sure if you have a lot of cord cutting in Australia or not. But in major markets where technology is more forward moving, lot's of people use things like Sling, Youtube TV, Hulu TV etc....

Yes I know those live streams are now apart of Neilson ratings, but the DVR factor is pretty important. Look at the loss of ratings over the years for WWE, but yet they have their strongest TV rights deal ever. Look at AEW, an unproved brand who hovers in the 700k - 1.2mill area weekly. They got an incredible TV deal, the best one for a wrestling company ever that isn't WWE.

The ratings comparison is a sucky argument. You're right, different nights different times different channels different competition. It does show that AEW has a million or so regular viewers and WWE has 2 million or so regular viewers. That's really all.

The 18-49 demo vs overall viewers is an Meltzer thing, nobody would be talking about it if he never brought it up probably. It wouldn't be a thing. AEW is the top show for cable on most Wednesdays and that will be the same when TNT drafts AEW to TBS and launches the NHL.

I'm sure that Turner is paying a lot more for NHL than they are for AEW, that's why NHL has to bump AEW to TBS. I think it sucks, I really like the way AEW fits on TNT, and I'm glad Rampage and the quarterly specials will remain on TNT, so I'm hoping that TBS gets a edgier rebrand with AEW joining.

I think WWE is possibly the one to sweat the next TV Contract negotiations. I don't think they will get such a strong deal this next round, likely from Fox leading to a stronger proposal from USA to get Smackdown back. Maybe they move NXT back to The Network as well.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Jordan X I agree with you it's noticeable that WWE has a strong push for the next wave of talents and are very focused on getting a strong connection with black audiences in particular, which is great. They have a bunch of great talent coming up, and you'd think by five years from now they could be on the verge of something really cool if the booking is good. The thing with ratings that always gets me with you is this. Let's take that 1.9 million for Raw/WWE. Let's say that is their average. That is near the same numbers TNA used to get, and yet you slam AEW for getting at or below TNA numbers. It's irrelevant! Irrelevant because in the US, there is a large amount of people who do not use a traditional cable subscription any more. I'm not sure if you have a lot of cord cutting in Australia or not. But in major markets where technology is more forward moving, lot's of people use things like Sling, Youtube TV, Hulu TV etc.... Yes I know those live streams are now apart of Neilson ratings, but the DVR factor is pretty important. Look at the loss of ratings over the years for WWE, but yet they have their strongest TV rights deal ever. Look at AEW, an unproved brand who hovers in the 700k - 1.2mill area weekly. They got an incredible TV deal, the best one for a wrestling company ever that isn't WWE. The ratings comparison is a sucky argument. You're right, different nights different times different channels different competition. It does show that AEW has a million or so regular viewers and WWE has 2 million or so regular viewers. That's really all. The 18-49 demo vs overall viewers is an Meltzer thing, nobody would be talking about it if he never brought it up probably. It wouldn't be a thing. AEW is the top show for cable on most Wednesdays and that will be the same when TNT drafts AEW to TBS and launches the NHL. I'm sure that Turner is paying a lot more for NHL than they are for AEW, that's why NHL has to bump AEW to TBS. I think it sucks, I really like the way AEW fits on TNT, and I'm glad Rampage and the quarterly specials will remain on TNT, so I'm hoping that TBS gets a edgier rebrand with AEW joining. I think WWE is possibly the one to sweat the next TV Contract negotiations. I don't think they will get such a strong deal this next round, likely from Fox leading to a stronger proposal from USA to get Smackdown back. Maybe they move NXT back to The Network as well.

Not sure how your argument applies to AEW but not WWE as well. WWE officially uploads content from its live shows onto YouTube almost immediately. Probably a far more effective way to hit the 18-49 demo, especially the lower side, than cable television in 2021.

DVR are possibly the least important numbers to me. Don’t know if that’s just something I’m missing. All it tells me is how many people might want to watch your show later when they have time and can fast forward through the bits they don’t like. Probably not a crash hot thing for advertisers.

Thinks it speaks louder to the pool of casual fans, or lapsed fans trying this shit out again but it not really connecting with them.

Turner is paying way more for hockey. There are a number of reasons. The first is that the weekly demo itself is not as important as people like Meltzer make out. If it were, AEW wouldn’t be bumped. That simple. But there is more to it. It’s the prestige of a franchise and the appeal of its audience to advertisers. The specific demographic number itself is not important. It’s what you can do with it.

It’s also very likely that over the course of a season, the NHL generates way more unique viewers than wrestling. I don’t really know my hockey, but there are people who might watch the Penguins play, because that’s their team, but not give a shit about too many other games. So advertisers can potentially reach more people through NHL. So even if cable was still a good way to reach 18 year olds (it isn’t), what we really need to be doing is looking at how many unique viewers in that demo there are, and how influential they are when it comes to setting trends. You know, to determine their actual worth to a network splitting half the ad revenue they take in with them.

NXT moving back to Peacock wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing at all. Especially if it strengthened the deal with NBC Universal. Eventually, even if cable completely crashes, Raw will likely end up taking hundreds of millions to be on Peacock. That is probably actually the plan. And people will still be like “Ha-ha! WWE isn’t even on proper TV anymore!” while Vince pockets $300 million or whatever.