ROH get a PPV deal

[Kane Knight]

Rob is seriously just issuiong reality. While I hope he's wrong, I know the odds are good that he's right.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

If I had to pick 12...

Danielson,
McGuiness
The Briscoes
Jimmy Rave
Brent Albright
Claudio Catignolli
Roderick Strong
Davey Richards
Rocky Romero
Delirious
BJ Whitmer

Those aren't my personal picks, but the people on the active roster who ROH would be afraid WWE or TNA may pick up before the PPV deal is up.

[Dave Youell]

I didn't realize the PPV's were going to be taped then put out, that could hurt them.

But I think this could also be a way of ROH keeping the talent they have left, TNA and WWE have hurt the roster on many times now, if everyone is getting contracts, it's a step in the right direction for them expanding. They've always done things very slowly at ROH, this is the next logical step

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Originally Posted by Rob 2 - ROH is built on DVD sales. Those sales are doing down now. Fact!

You don't say fact without providing evidence, so let's see it. Not having a go, just curious.

[Dave Youell]

If DVD sales are going down per show I could understand it, as they are running more and more shows, so it's going to be expensive for fans to get them all.

But that would be subsidized by the fact they are bringing in more cash with shows and saving costs now because they are not using TNA guys

[Jeritron]

Hopefully this isn't a case of ROH trying to dive into a world their not suited to be in. When ECW started growing, they weren't financially strong enough to stay afloat. They pushed themselves into a situation that killed them. If ROH gets restless and tries to push their promotion outside of it's current niche and make a push for PPV and TV, they'll face the same problems as ECW did and end up collapsing in on themselves. Even if they get the exposure to elevate stars with a buzz, they'll be bought off. And it's not like they're going to bring in anything on par with the assets of WWE or even TNA. Instead of existing happily and perhaps steadily growing as a third tier promotion that's big on the indy scene, they step into a situation that forces them to keep up with the major leagues when they're for all intents and purposes the minor leagues.

[Innovator]

TNA just pulled all of their talent from ROH, so no more Aries or Homicide

[thecc]

I have a feel Aries is gonna pull a Punk though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rob definitely knows his shit, no doubt about that, but I definitely see that as being a good thing.

What is Ring of Honor supposed to do? Sit on their thumbs and wait until Vince dies? ROH is also a slightly different product to the WWE and TNA. This isn't a WWA, it's more an "alternative" than the same shit being packaged in a different bottle.

I know it's not suddenly going to make ROH catch on like wildfire, but this could be the grease the turns the wheels. I mean, the countries that have ROH on television would probably be eager to get some hands on PPVs. This American deal might be exclusive at the moment, but I don't see it as ROH trying to bite off more than it can chew, but rather them finally taking those first steps to becoming a player. Not the biggest, but possibly the best.

In a climate where the WWE and (sadly) now TNA throw crap at the viewers screens, Ring of Honor provides quality. Maybe I haven't been following the promotion enough, but has ROH ever put on a bad show? I don't mean one match that didn't click, I mean a show people regretting seeing?

I know your argument wasn't against the quality of ROH, rather the money this is costing compared to the money it is raking in, but I really think the promotion has grown. They're doing world tours, they've got some healthy relationships with Japan. I don't know business as well as I could (I do have some education in the area), but it wouldn't surprise me if ROH strikes up a working agreement with Pro Wrestling NOAH, Dragon Gate and maybe even some smaller American independant promotions, to get them mentions, and maybe even their titles defended at a show.

Sure, ROH's DVD sales are down, but YouTube viewings are up. I mean, ROH fans are smart, they aren't going to fork out all this cash for a DVD, when they can just type "Bryan Danielson" into YouTube. That could also come into play with the PPV thing, but I think loyalty will come into play here.

I mean, just polling people here, who will actually support this thing? If ROH were holding PPVs in Australia, I'd order them quite gladly. Definitely over WWE and TNA. ROH definitely has those two promotions beat in terms of quality, and I don't think quality is a factor that can completely be ignored.

I guess I'm just being positive, but I want to see this thing work. I don't think ROH would take such a big chance if it means they'd be done for. It wouldn't take much to rebuild, but I don't think the risks aren't being evaluated by ROH.

I wouldn't look at this as the climax for ROH (at least, I hope not), but rather a stepping stone. Just order their events, support the art form, and maybe the WWE will take notice, and throw them cash under the table like they did with ECW back in the day. I'm not going to call this a stupid move, I've going to call it ambitious, and I'm glad there is finally a quality wrestling product out there.

[Innovator]

A lot of indys companies have come and gone since ECW closed up shop. ROH has stayed the course and found their own niche in the wrestling world. With that said, over the last 5 years they pretty much have all the fans they can reach via the Internet Wrestling Community. Why not take a shot at a taped PPV which will only cost $10-$15? Some casual fans will see a new wrestling promotion, and maybe they'll take the chance. A live to tape PPV costs a hell of a lot less than a live PPV. No production truck, no live commentary.

The show itself on 5/12 will probably go the normal 3-4 hours for an ROH show, so they can edit it and give us the best 2 hours of the show. Crowd craps all over Adam Pierce's match? Doesn't need to go on the show.

And some quick notes I got from PWInsider Elite:

-music will stay the same
-production will go up at the show, upgrades to the lighting/cameras/etc.


Of course there are risks with this, but ROH always goes about expansion carefully. They just pulled out of St. Paul, Minnesota because they weren't breaking even there. Same with Boston last year, and Buffalo. If they don't get in the black after this PPV, they probably won't renew their contract after the 6 are up.

[Innovator]

Originally Posted by thecc I have a feel Aries is gonna pull a Punk though.

I think he will also, he hates TNA and they don't like him back.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, and just another point: I don't think being taped will actually hurt Ring of Honor. They're not a show to base themselves around revelations and surprises. I mean, it's like fine art making compared to American horror films. I think ROH will actually find a way to make it work to their advantage.

Namely, I can see them putting on as many MOTY candidates as possible. I don't know, maybe just matches like The Briscoes vs. KENTA and Naomichi Marufuji for the ROH World Tag Team Championship. Through word of mouth they could spread, and people might actually be itchy to buy on July 1st.

I actually think a lot of thought has gone into this. July isn't go-go-go month is the wrestling industry, and it's not like they're putting on a show every month (or every week, somehow TNA survived that and continues to grow).

I don't think ROH will be the biggest company by the end of the year, or anything, but watch their shows; if you have friends who watch wrestling, network; pray to Gabe this works out! TNA went to the PPV stage before they were ready, and had shit going every week. It was Jeff Jarrett headlined shit, too. Less people know him, but more people will be impressed with Bryan Danielson. As bland as he appears to be, he will fucking kick your head in.

And who knows, it's not public or anything yet, but ROH might be having their pockets filled from somewhere. I'm not sure how big Mitsuharu Misawa's accounts are, and he has his own going-ons to worry about, but who knows? This is crazy to even suggest, but Hulk Hogan is pretty pissed off at Vince McMahon at the moment. It's not his cup of tea, but who knows, maybe he got to sleep with Lacey, or something? Maybe Gabe was smart enough to dress her up like Hogan. A version of himself with a vagina...Hogan's dream partner.

I'm pretty sure ROH will be busting out the MOTYs, they'll be putting their all into this, and they might even have a special appearance or two. Mick Foley isn't officially under WWE contract, is he? I really think this will be worth watching. Let's pray they do well.

[Jeritron]

sidenote to Alienoid:

American Horror films can be fine art. Sure there are tons of shitty ones, but that's because it's such a hard art. It's a lot harder to scare somebody on film these days than it is to make them laugh, cry or get on the edge of their seat. IMO, it's the hardest genre to succeed in, which makes it a skillful art.

[Innovator]

and the guys listed on the YouTube announcement were

ROH World Champ Takeshi Morishima
Jay Briscoe
Mark Briscoe
"American Dragon" Bryan Danielson
Nigel McGuinness
Roderick Strong
Davey Richards
Rocky Romero
Delirious
Erick Stevens
BJ Whitmer
Claudio Castagnoli


Oh yeah, Dragon will be there on 5/12. Final Countdown begins.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Innovator A lot of indys companies have come and gone since ECW closed up shop. ROH has stayed the course and found their own niche in the wrestling world. With that said, over the last 5 years they pretty much have all the fans they can reach via the Internet Wrestling Community. Why not take a shot at a taped PPV which will only cost $10-$15? Some casual fans will see a new wrestling promotion, and maybe they'll take the chance. A live to tape PPV costs a hell of a lot less than a live PPV. No production truck, no live commentary. The show itself on 5/12 will probably go the normal 3-4 hours for an ROH show, so they can edit it and give us the best 2 hours of the show. Crowd craps all over Adam Pierce's match? Doesn't need to go on the show. And some quick notes I got from PWInsider Elite: -music will stay the same -production will go up at the show, upgrades to the lighting/cameras/etc. Of course there are risks with this, but ROH always goes about expansion carefully. They just pulled out of St. Paul, Minnesota because they weren't breaking even there. Same with Boston last year, and Buffalo. If they don't get in the black after this PPV, they probably won't renew their contract after the 6 are up.

I love you.

I agree completely, I'd bet ROH has thought this through. Not my house, or anything, but I don't think this is destined for failure.

I'm intrigued about the music. This is what I was hoping WSX would do. Real music in wrestling costs money, but who knows, some bands might actually like the exposure of reaching a hardcore audience like ROH? And come on, who would not mark out to Claudio Castagnoli coming out to Sledgehammer, and Bryan Danielson to The Final Countdown? Music in wrestling is often underappreciated, but I think it could be a great way for ROH to just connect with audiences, and rise their shows a little bit more.

I mean, some bands might not worry too much about their music being associated by a guy who goes out and plies his craft with skill and dedication, as opposed to them coming out and having sex with a dummy as they would in the WWE.

I think ROH stands to be more the most accepted wrestling promotion in the world by the media. ROH is art, and it makes the WWE look like finger-painting a lot of the time. I'm not sure how far the music will set them back, but I really think this is a good move.

I don't think they should go too over the top with the production values, though. Lighting would probably be it. Maybe a stage. Definitely not videos or anything like that. Production values should be cleaner, but I don't think they should go too much grander.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Jeritron sidenote to Alienoid: American Horror films can be fine art. Sure there are tons of shitty ones, but that's because it's such a hard art. It's a lot harder to scare somebody on film these days than it is to make them laugh, cry or get on the edge of their seat. IMO, it's the hardest genre to succeed in, which makes it a skillful art.

Oh, I definitely agree. "American" was probably the wrong term to use. I was more thinking of "Hollywood" and movies like Pulse, The Grudge, etc. The ones where something has to jump out predictably, or the guy has to be insane and have been behind it himself. Oh, and it must has a creepy little kid.

No doubt horror can be art, just Hollywood loves to pump it full of cliches. Vince (McM) and Vince (R) couldn't deliver a taped PPV to save their lives, because someone would need to get hit with a guitar, or lose their hair, and there would need to be some shock there.

ROH (like good films, including good horror movies, which do exist), is more about the how, the why, and less about the what. Definitely less ADD associated with their booking.

So yeah, my apologies for using that analogy, I didn't make it clear enough what I meant. I definitely enjoy my good horror. It's just good horror is becoming harder and harder to find these days.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The only problem I can see with having taped PPVs, are title changes. I guess the die-hards would see them, and it gives us an extra reason to watch the shows, but they should definitely have the Champion (who would have won held their Championship for around a month before the PPVs airs) to maybe even give a more recent interview to talk about the match, the show, etc. Just so it doesn't feel "dated", and feels more "deliberate".

But yeah, I think Ring of Honor can survive being taped.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

If you think WWE are not fully aware of ROH and everything they do then you need a reality check.

Just sayin'

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 What is Ring of Honor supposed to do? Sit on their thumbs and wait until Vince dies?

*deep breath*

STRAAAAAAAAAAAW

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

[Mr. Nerfect]

The following is the craziest thing I have ever suggested:

Like, seriously, I think the only reason I am suggesting this is because of how crazy it is.

What if Hulk Hogan is funding ROH, just so he can stick it to Vince. Why ROH? Fuck's me, that's why it's so crazy, but what if Gabe saved Hogan's cat or something from a fire, and then did the same thing for his dog the next week, and Hogan was like "Oh, brother. You've truly been there for me, brother. If there's something you ever need, brother, even if it's Brooke's vagina, brother, just call me, brother."

So Hogan hates Vince now, and Gabe calls up Hulk: "Hey man, remember me, I saved your pets...anyway, man, I was wondering, I've got this little wrestling promotion, it's not your kind of scene, these guys roll around and fly well,"
"Thank God, brother. I'm too old to do you that kind of favour brother,"
"Nah, man. I was just wondering if you'd give me some cash, and instead of asking you to wrestle, because we all know how painful that is, you just look like God by providing wrestling with an alternative to Vince's shit?"
"God? Brother, I'm there. You'll like build a statue for me and everything? Brother, this is amazing, I'd love to stick it to Vince."

And anyway, at Respect is Earned, Hogan comes out, and he cuts a promo that goes like this:

"Holy crap, man! These guys are way too fast for me, brother! Back in my day, everyone was a lot bigger, but I wouldn't want to pick a fight with any of these talented dudes. Hulkamania can never be killed, brother, but if there's a place where it can die a humbled death, it is in Ring of Honor, dude! I walked in here Hulk Hogan, and I walk out Terry Bollea."

I don't know what Hogan would get out of it, other than Vince probably having a heart attack, but maybe Gabe could like promise to get Brooke's career going, by insisting to the IWC that she really isn't that bad? Or Gabe could promise Hogan like some kind of way to constantly be remembered, maybe a statue on the PPV set, or something?

It'd be crazy, but Hogan represents "sport entertainment" as much as anyone. For him to put over the "art" of professional wrestling would be huge. He might even be crazy enough to think that it'd make him a God to WWE fans, and to ROH fans, hence a God to everyone. Although, we all know Hogan would rather spend his nights thinking of ways he could Leg Drop the entire company to "put it over".

I dunno, just a crazy, crazy idea I had. I think Gabe's planning something. Not quite that crazy, but I don't think he's going out to bat empty handed.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The following is the craziest thing I have ever suggested:

Like, seriously, I think the only reason I am suggesting this is because of how crazy it is.

What if Hulk Hogan is funding ROH, just so he can stick it to Vince. Why ROH? Fuck's me, that's why it's so crazy, but what if Gabe saved Hogan's cat or something from a fire, and then did the same thing for his dog the next week, and Hogan was like "Oh, brother. You've truly been there for me, brother. If there's something you ever need, brother, even if it's Brooke's vagina, brother, just call me, brother."

So Hogan hates Vince now, and Gabe calls up Hulk: "Hey man, remember me, I saved your pets...anyway, man, I was wondering, I've got this little wrestling promotion, it's not your kind of scene, these guys roll around and fly well,"
"Thank God, brother. I'm too old to do you that kind of favour brother,"
"Nah, man. I was just wondering if you'd give me some cash, and instead of asking you to wrestle, because we all know how painful that is, you just look like God by providing wrestling with an alternative to Vince's shit?"
"God? Brother, I'm there. You'll like build a statue for me and everything? Brother, this is amazing, I'd love to stick it to Vince."

And anyway, at Respect is Earned, Hogan comes out, and he cuts a promo that goes like this:

"Holy crap, man! These guys are way too fast for me, brother! Back in my day, everyone was a lot bigger, but I wouldn't want to pick a fight with any of these talented dudes. Hulkamania can never be killed, brother, but if there's a place where it can die a humbled death, it is in Ring of Honor, dude! I walked in here Hulk Hogan, and I walk out Terry Bollea."

I don't know what Hogan would get out of it, other than Vince probably having a heart attack, but maybe Gabe could like promise to get Brooke's career going, by insisting to the IWC that she really isn't that bad? Or Gabe could promise Hogan like some kind of way to constantly be remembered, maybe a statue on the PPV set, or something?

It'd be crazy, but Hogan represents "sport entertainment" as much as anyone. For him to put over the "art" of professional wrestling would be huge. He might even be crazy enough to think that it'd make him a God to WWE fans, and to ROH fans, hence a God to everyone. Although, we all know Hogan would rather spend his nights thinking of ways he could Leg Drop the entire company to "put it over".

I dunno, just a crazy, crazy idea I had. I think Gabe's planning something. Not quite that crazy, but I don't think he's going out to bat empty handed.

[blake639raw]

I think you have completely lost your mind.

[Jeritron]

LMAO at the notion that the IWC is the key force working against Brooke Hogan succeeding as a singer

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by Jeritron LMAO at the notion that the IWC is the key force working against Brooke Hogan succeeding as a singer

rofl

[Jordan]

Im not gonna worry about ROH's finances, fuck it, im a fan I don't care. This is good because I will get 6 ppv's from ROH, bottom line, thats a good thing.

[The One]

WWE's PPV buyrates are dwindling, TNA is barely making a profit from PPVs, so yeah, I think RoH dumping a ton of money into getting their shows released on PPV is a great idea. They go under faster and I can stop listening to people talk about them as if they were anything more than a indy who features a specific style of wrestling.

I'm not trying to come in here and start up more shit (which let's be honest, I do quite a bit) I'm just coming in here to give my official opinion as a wrestling fan. It's a terrible move for a company who can't support a PPV fanbase to attempt to put on PPVs. And it's not like when TNA was doing weekly ones (which even there they lost a TON of money), this is 6 big PPV events a year. How on earth are they going to get the word out on the street to buy them? They don't have big name stars to attract fans...and don't you even dare say Danielson is a star, in America, he's lower on the food chain than Shark Boy...and they can't afford a commercial bombardment of TNA or WWE shows. The only people interested in this are people who are already RoH fans, and honestly, even those are starting to die out. Terrible business move. IMO.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Originally Posted by The One this is 6 big PPV events a year

Eh, I'm not so sure I'd call it that. It's 6 events that they're still going to put onto DVD, still make money from the gate (I would assume - they'd be insane not to put them in their biggest drawing markets, which is why the first is in NYC) and DVD sales, and then there is this on top. From what I understand (and this is still breaking news pretty much, so details are scarce) there isn't going to be a huge outlay on making these shows any different from normal, save some production stuff which is supposedly minor. I don't know how much they're looking to make, or if this is simply a way to get their name out there so they are not such a niche promotion anymore.

Bottom line however if this is to be worth anything they have to spend on advertising. How much they can spend versus how much the rewards they receive actually work out to will determine whether this is a good idea.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Another thing people have to remember.

This is only 6 ppvs.

People like to rant about how Gabe is a smart businessman, how his business model works, etc.

If these ppvs do more harm than good, they can just not do them anymore. ROH has it's niche, but stepping out of it for a bit won't kill them. If nothing else, I'm sure these ppvs will attract more fans, so even if they don't break even on the ppvs themselves, when they return to their niche, they'll have more fans, and more income then before.

[Jeritron]

Yea but you see, like anything else wrestling promotions seek to move forward. Moving backwards, even if the right choice, seems weak. If ECW settled once they got PPV they would have been fine. But it didn't stop there, in order to stay afloat they had to keep pushing, and Heyman went and took a tv deal, and pushed the promotion into a fight it was doomed to lose.

[Jeritron]

Or, like TNA they could up the promotion to weekly or monthly PPVs, then from there they'd have the goal of getting tv. Once one goal is achieved another one is set. Either way, by tackling PPV it shows they're not content and want to grow, which is perfectly normal, but it brings them closer and closer to being seen as compettition or getting all their talent exposure to be lifted off of them, which is bad.

[Better Than You]

Originally Posted by Jeritron Yea but you see, like anything else wrestling promotions seek to move forward. Moving backwards, even if the right choice, seems weak. If ECW settled once they got PPV they would have been fine. But it didn't stop there, in order to stay afloat they had to keep pushing, and Heyman went and took a tv deal, and pushed the promotion into a fight it was doomed to lose.

You're acting as if there is some external force doing the pushing, it was Heyman. And Heyman doesn't run this company.

[Better Than You]

Originally Posted by Jordan X Im not gonna worry about ROH's finances, fuck it, im a fan I don't care. This is good because I will get 6 ppv's from ROH, bottom line, thats a good thing.

EXACTLY. Fuck, by the PPV and help them grow. Or don't. Either way we are the only fans in the world who would bitch about having more of the product.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Better Than You EXACTLY. Fuck, by the PPV and help them grow. Or don't. Either way we are the only fans in the world who would bitch about having more of the product.

Them doing PPV isn't going to help them grow. They won't sell enough to grow and will inevitably lose money and will result in running LESS shows.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I take it you're putting together those DVD sales stats as I type this Rob

[Better Than You]

Originally Posted by Rob Them doing PPV isn't going to help them grow. They won't sell enough to grow and will inevitably lose money and will result in running LESS shows.

Us buying a PPV will help them grow sorry (which if your read is what I was trying to say.) They will only run less show if your pessimistic out look holds true. Face it, there are no facts. If you want to assume that this is going to end up negative, go ahead. Be gloomy. If you want to assume that this has a chance of being profitable, do that.

At the end of the day, we can only wait and see. What I know is I'm GOING to buy this PPV. And in the process help them, the same way my purchasing their DVDs helps them. I will continue to do this until they are no longer in existence or they no longer entertain me.

The rest is all speculation.

[Rob]

You've lost me.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Better Than You Us buying a PPV will help them grow sorry (which if your read is what I was trying to say.) They will only run less show if your pessimistic out look holds true. Face it, there are no facts. If you want to assume that this is going to end up negative, go ahead. Be gloomy. If you want to assume that this has a chance of being profitable, do that. At the end of the day, we can only wait and see. What I know is I'm GOING to buy this PPV. And in the process help them, the same way my purchasing their DVDs helps them. I will continue to do this until they are no longer in existence or they no longer entertain me. The rest is all speculation.

Okay that's one PPV buy from you. How many more do you think they are gonna do?

No facts? Someone is lying to themselves big time.

[Better Than You]

Originally Posted by Rob Okay that's one PPV buy from you. How many more do you think they are gonna do? No facts? Someone is lying to themselves big time.

LOL, wow. You think because I don't agree with you I'm on the otherside of the fence. You're a bright one.

I've been pretty nuetral. Maybe they get them, maybe they don't. But it's IDIOTIC to sit here proclaim failure when it could just as easily go the other way.

And yeah, no facts. You don't know how much this PPV is going to cost them or the consumer, and with out those two numbers, you don't know shit except for what you assume.

Keep pretending though, people are buynig into it.

[Better Than You]

Personally I just hope they break even and keep me watching RoH on PPV for years to come.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Better Than You LOL, wow. You think because I don't agree with you I'm on the otherside of the fence. You're a bright one. I've been pretty nuetral. Maybe they get them, maybe they don't. But it's IDIOTIC to sit here proclaim failure when it could just as easily go the other way. And yeah, no facts. You don't know how much this PPV is going to cost them or the consumer, and with out those two numbers, you don't know shit except for what you assume. Keep pretending though, people are buynig into it.

How exactly can it "easily go the other way"? I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong.

TNA has 100 times the resources ROH does plus a far more over roster to the average fan and they don't make money on PPV. Never have and at the rate they are going, never will. How is ROH possibly gonna do better than them? They run live shows and have an average of about 35,000 people buying their PPV's. Gabe should be spunking his pants if 10,000 people buy a ROH PPV and that's not happening.

ROH lose money running house shows. They only make anything on DVD sales.

How do you know that I don't know what running PPV costs either?