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View Poll Results: Why has MH been spazzing?
To further a gimmick 3 14.29%
Hes nuts 18 85.71%
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:23 PM   #41
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Sting hasn't been a real main eventer since WCW collapsed.
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:25 PM   #42
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Sting hasn't been a real main eventer since WCW collapsed.
In that same logic, you can say Sting hasn't really been a wrestler since WCW collapsed.
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:33 PM   #43
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Really, I'll be honest...does any World Championship matter. I mean Jeff Hardy won the WWE Championship last night, and I still don't care. It might have something to do with the shitty looking belt encrusted with diamonds, the spinning WWE logo, and the world "Champion" being shortened to "Champ", or maybe something to do with the shitty, overdone wrestling matches. But hey that's me...

EDIT: I know I'm going on a rant here, but you people are arguing that one fake championship means more than another fake championship. I bet if this conversation went from "Does the ECW Championship mean as much as the WWE Championship" to "Does the WWE Championship mean anything", you would realize you are bitching about apples and oranges.
Last edited by JT; 12-15-2008 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:34 PM   #44
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By that logic, you could argue that nobody's been a main eventer since the boom period ended.
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:07 PM   #45
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World Championships matter to the extent that if you have one or are feuding for one you are probably on tv, and if so good for you, but other than that their prestige has been done away with the fact that there are three of them for one company.
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:18 PM   #46
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Where's that McDonalds championship? I bet if I won that I'd get more respect than the ECW champ. No knock against the title itslef, but WWE treats it like the IC Title at best.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:21 AM   #47
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I just want to say, the ECW Title is more credible as a World Title than the TNA Title since it's been bereft of the NWA status. And seriously, ever since the McMahon run and Lashley's stripping, the ECW Title has been a decent belt. Yes, even Henry's run was not entirely without merit.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:55 AM   #48
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Argue all you want but Matt Hardy is a legit world wrestling champion. TNA had the NWA title when it meant nothing and nobody said that their champion wasn't a world champion. Matt Hardy also defends a "world title" across the world. Something that a hell of a lot of other wrestling world champs can't say they have done.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:30 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Argue all you want but Matt Hardy is a legit world wrestling champion. TNA had the NWA title when it meant nothing and nobody said that their champion wasn't a world champion. Matt Hardy also defends a "world title" across the world. Something that a hell of a lot of other wrestling world champs can't say they have done.
Rob knows
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:04 AM   #50
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I love the "no detours" thing. Because losing your job, losing your push, getting handed the world and blowing it certainly wouldn't count as a detour.

But KooSH is right. The ECW is no less valid than The HHH and John Cena championships.

I think he meant "deterred".
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:59 AM   #51
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Sorry for the Jeff Hardy marks, (I know I'm one too.) But who thinks Jeff will lose the belt at the Royal Rumble, or No Way Out.

Right now, I want to say NWO, then he's gonna get pissed about losing, and cut a promo about how he wants the WWE title back and blah blah blah. Then get into the MITB match and win, then cash it in on some random day and we'll see what happens.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:39 PM   #52
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I'd like to think that the whole reason Edge won the title from HHH is so that Jeff can finally beat HHH for the belt at Wrestlemania. I think this run will be short for Jeff, but that it's the dry run to see if he can take the weight on his shoulders before they hand it over to him on the big stage.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Argue all you want but Matt Hardy is a legit world wrestling champion. TNA had the NWA title when it meant nothing and nobody said that their champion wasn't a world champion. Matt Hardy also defends a "world title" across the world. Something that a hell of a lot of other wrestling world champs can't say they have done.
Seriously... the TNA title has left the USA like, what, one time?
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:54 AM   #54
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Seriously... the TNA title has left Florida like, what, 3 time?
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:00 PM   #55
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Follow up question, for a title to be a world title, which is more important, to be defended across the world, or for the competitors holding and or challenging for the belt to be of multiple nationalities? I.E. If just say Americans fought for the title in its history, but it was done all across the world, or if people of any nationality fought for the title, but it was soley done in America, which would more of a world championship?
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:05 PM   #56
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A World Title has nothing to do with actually being "world". It is the company's top titles. In WWE, this is the WWE AND the World Title. While the ECW Title, despite being called a "world title" is not treated as such. So within the confines of its own company, it is not as legit.
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:11 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Follow up question, for a title to be a world title, which is more important, to be defended across the world, or for the competitors holding and or challenging for the belt to be of multiple nationalities? I.E. If just say Americans fought for the title in its history, but it was done all across the world, or if people of any nationality fought for the title, but it was soley done in America, which would more of a world championship?
For me, a world title has to be a real title. I don't really give a shit about a wrestling prop but for argument sake, I'm more impressed when it's defended in more places than Nashville and Orlando. I'm also more impressed when it's not a glorified indy title defended infront of 600 members of the trench coat mafia who hate everything remotely popular outside of their jerk circle.
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:48 PM   #58
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I'd have to say both are important, but I'd say that defending it against wrestler's of other countries is more important. A world title defended only against people from America, but defended around the world is still rather exclusive. Likewise, if you defend it against peeps from other countries, but your belt has no exposure outside of America, same thing.

Ultimately, most "World Titles" are simply the highest title of a company/brand. On that note, TNA's is a joke.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:43 PM   #59
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A world title is a title with granted world title status. It's not up for debate among fans. The ECW World Title is a title because the WWE and the industry consider it to be so, it is called such, and is defended among the world. It's the highest ranking title in it's "promotion" since there are brands.

We can choose to acknowledge this in our own worlds or not, but it's a world title. It's as much of a world title as the original ECW title was. I'm not saying I like it more, but it is.
It's also as much of a world title as TNA or ROH. Same views apply.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:45 PM   #60
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:12 PM   #61
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Quote:
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A world title is a title with granted world title status. It's not up for debate among fans. The ECW World Title is a title because the WWE and the industry consider it to be so, it is called such, and is defended among the world. It's the highest ranking title in it's "promotion" since there are brands.

We can choose to acknowledge this in our own worlds or not, but it's a world title. It's as much of a world title as the original ECW title was. I'm not saying I like it more, but it is.
It's also as much of a world title as TNA or ROH. Same views apply.
Psh, how do you expect to be taken seriously when you compare the TNA title to... anything.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:51 PM   #62
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Well the original ECW Title wasn't considered a "World Title" until Shane Douglas won the NWA Title (and subsequently threw it down declaring the ECW Title as a World Title).

Therefore, if you consider the old ECW Title as a "World" belt you surely must have to extend the same courtesy to the NWA Title when TNA used it (and thus the TNA World Championship as it stands now).

Personally, I don't consider the ECW Title in it's current form to be a "World Title" and I don't think many others around here did until Matt Hardy mentioned it as such.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:44 AM   #63
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WWE recognizes all the guys in the original ECW to be former champions, so to me, as shitty as it's been booked at times, the current ECW title has always been a world title.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:17 AM   #64
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Incidentally I think we should consider that "World" status stopped being an official and governable status for a title when wrestling stopped being a sport and became sports entertainment. When it was a sport, "World" status was subject to sporting review boards, now it's subject to creative teams.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:28 AM   #65
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For me, a world title has to be a real title. I don't really give a shit about a wrestling prop but for argument sake, I'm more impressed when it's defended in more places than Nashville and Orlando. I'm also more impressed when it's not a glorified indy title defended infront of 600 members of the trench coat mafia who hate everything remotely popular outside of their jerk circle.
Exactly.

And that's why the ECW Title is more legit than TNA and ROH title's.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:11 AM   #66
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Exactly.

And that's why the ECW Title is more legit than TNA and ROH title's.
That's like saying "And that's why John Wayne Gacy was a better man than Osama Bin Laden."
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:20 PM   #67
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Not really
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:49 PM   #68
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Well, I certainly find your rebuttal to be reasoned and logical...
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:11 PM   #69
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Just don't have the energy to get into it, but its not really comprable
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:13 PM   #70
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Well, I certainly find your rebuttal to be reasoned and logical...
About as logical and reasonable as your initial comparison.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:21 PM   #71
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It's fallacy
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:08 PM   #72
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The ECW Championship is on par with the Intercontinental and United States Championships. I don't give a damn if they do occasionally refer to it as a World Title, it's not anywhere near the prestige or respect of the World Heavyweight or WWE Championship belts.

According to the logic of some here, it's a World Title because the WWE said it's a World Title. Since when did that mean anything?

Look at the level of talent that goes after the ECW Title: Mark Henry, Kane, Finlay, Matt Hardy... it's a freakin' mid-card title, no matter what they say.

Matt can delude himself and say that he and his brother are both World Champions, and to some extent it's true, but he knows, we know, and everyone else knows that Matt Hardy's championship status is not on par with that of John Cena or Jeff Hardy, atm.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:43 PM   #73
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Where does Matt Hardy go from here?
Do you think his recent push complete with wins over his brother and new ring attire is actually going to go somewhere? Honestly, he is looking pretty legit now. I know he's been hitting the gym to try to complete his new image and I hope he gets a bit more cut. He's one of those guys that has always been solid in the ring and can hold his own on the mic (granted he still needs a bit more work on the stick). He isn't afraid to go for the big spots but doesn't need to rely on them to have a good match. Is it possible that he'll ever get a main event push or do you see him staying under the glass ceiling forever?

Narcissus spite tour of 2020. I have kids.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:46 PM   #74
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He'll always be second to Jeff. Upper carder for sure, even fill-in main event feuds for down times, but I never see him getting much more than a token title run.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:47 PM   #75
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Upper mid-card 4 life!
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:49 PM   #76
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Yeah, I tend to agree but I still don't exactly know why. He is a better mic worker than his brother and is overall better in the ring. Jeff has charisma in a different way and has the "everyman" look going for him but I'll never understand why fans attach to him so much in comparison to Matt. More spots?
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:55 PM   #77
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As far as I'm concerned, They're both good, but lack that untangible "it" factor. Above average, but just.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:56 PM   #78
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Jeff has "It". Matt doesn't.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:04 AM   #79
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To me, it seems that the WWE seems to sway back and forth on which Hardy brother they really want to push. It looks like one gets themselves into such a good position, and the other is so far behind that there's no way they can catch up, and then boom -- suddenly the other one is moving up and the other is staying stoic.

I'm not going to say that Matt Hardy has "it." Hardy is the better of the two, though, no doubt in my mind. Matt can cut a better promo, can play a better character, and is a better worker and more reliable talent overall. Matt Hardy has all the tools to be a World Champion in the WWE -- at least on paper.

I'm sort of hoping that we get the World Heavyweight Title match of Edge vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Christian vs. Matt Hardy at WrestleMania 26.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:06 AM   #80
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Raw.
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