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Old 02-27-2011, 10:14 PM   #1
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The crowd made Lesnar-Goldberg an amazing match even if the match itself was bland. The crowd showed no mercy to either wrestler with all the booing and taunting while Stone Cold got the loudest cheers when he stunned both guys after the match.

Much better than a "dead"/silent crowd going with a bland or boring match.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:20 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
The crowd made Lesnar-Goldberg an amazing match even if the match itself was bland. The crowd showed no mercy to either wrestler with all the booing and taunting while Stone Cold got the loudest cheers when he stunned both guys after the match.

Much better than a "dead"/silent crowd going with a bland or boring match.
Oh, you mean the crowd booing the whole match? Wow. Yeah. That makes an awesome match.

This was one of the most hyped matches in 'Mania history, and failed to deliver on so many levels.

All the other matches that have been mentioned were probably expected to be bad, or did not have the hype and expectation of the Lesnar/Goldberg match at 'Mania XX.

Therefore, as I said...WORST MATCH IN 'MANIA HISTORY. And I'll always stand beside that.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:37 PM   #3
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This was not 'one of the most hyped matches in 'Mania history' since just about everybody knew in the leadup and during the match that both guys were done with afterwards. If anything, once that stuff came out, it was all quite anti-climatic, hence them being booed out of the building. And even if you were right about hype, expectations etc, no matter how you tart it up, there is no chance in hell that Goldberg/Lesnar was worse than David Sammartino/Beefcake, Andre/Big John Studd, Wendi Richter/Leilani Kai/most of the divas matches ever, Adrian Adonis/Uncle Elmer, the 6 'man' from WM III, Khali/Kane, Show/Akebono, Taker/Gonzalez, Taker/Bossman, Hogan/Bundy etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc (the list could go on a bit)
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:41 PM   #4
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And for somebody so insistent on Goldberg/Brock being the worst, I take it that means you've seen all of the WrestleMania's in their entirety?
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:43 PM   #5
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I agree to disagree with you and anyone else who has a different view. Goldberg/Lesnar is the worst match in 'Mania history in my opinion. I remember watching it live and thinking "I can't wait for this match to end." I have never felt that way about any other match at 'Mania that I have watched live.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:52 PM   #6
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It wasn't THE WORST MATCH IN WRESTLEMANIA HISTORY.

Remember the Gimmick Battle Royal?

Undertaker vs Giant Gonzalez?

We've seen worse.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:53 PM   #7
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I didn't think LT/Bam Bam or Taker/Bossman were THAT bad. Personally, Warrior/Helmsley is the worst match in WrestleMania history. Chavo/Kane gets a nod also.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:54 PM   #8
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There's a difference in watching a match live and watching a match that was done 5 years before you were born, or even a match that you watched so long after the event.

None of the other matches that have been talked about I have seen live.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eklipse View Post
There's a difference in watching a match live and watching a match that was done 5 years before you were born, or even a match that you watched so long after the event.

None of the other matches that have been talked about I have seen live.
You never saw the Gimmick Battle Royal? It was like 6 years ago or something.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:15 AM   #10
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You never saw the Gimmick Battle Royal? It was like 6 years ago or something.
Close try 10. (WM X-7)
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by XL View Post
Seriously though, I'm more hyped about this Mania than I ever have been.

WWE has the best chance it's ever gonna get to push some of the "new"/"younger" talent.

Having said that, if I don't get wins for Miz & Rhodes and to a lesser extent Del Rio/Barrett/etc my opinion could change.
I'm not more hyped than I've ever been, but it doesn't look bad.

Last year had me hyped because even if everything else sucked, there was HBK/Taker. It's rare to have a match that excites me that much, but at the same time, this year lacks that same sort of "big" match.

So far the only thing that's got that "big" feel is a retired wrestling-cum-movie star returning, and he's not even wrestling. That's not to say this won't be a good Mania, or that there won't be great matches, mind. I'm seriously not out to tear down this year's event.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:57 PM   #12
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So far the only thing that's got that "big" feel is a retired wrestling-cum-movie star returning, and he's not even wrestling. That's not to say this won't be a good Mania, or that there won't be great matches, mind. I'm seriously not out to tear down this year's event.
Heh. Rock's return (and those of Austin or Trish or anyone else really) doesn't excite me all that much. Bringing him in is looking backwards, I want this Mania to look to the present/future.

Ideally it's time for "Cena's generation" to "pass the torch" to the next set of guys. So I'm looking for (but by no means expecting) wins for Miz, Rhodes, Punk, ADR, etc.

Plus, I think HHH v Taker has the potential to rival HBK v Taker in terms of build. For all the talking up of these "new/young" guys, I do like this match up.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Volare View Post
Close try 10. (WM X-7)
Well, I wasn't sure, just threw a number out there
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:11 PM   #14
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Well, I wasn't sure, just threw a number out there
No sweat, just backin ya up.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:55 PM   #15
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Hell In A Cell - Undertaker vs. Big Boss Man - WM16

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Old 02-27-2011, 10:57 PM   #16
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Nopers. Didn't get 'Mania that year. Only ones I've seen live are 20, 24, 25, and 26. I went a few years without watching wrestling at all. I think it was during the McMahon-Helmsley era.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eklipse View Post
Nopers. Didn't get 'Mania that year. Only ones I've seen live are 20, 24, 25, and 26. I went a few years without watching wrestling at all. I think it was during the McMahon-Helmsley era.
Well, still...Goldberg/Lesnar wasn't the WORST. It was just a case of WWE putting a match together between two guys who couldn't call a match and had to be carried by a more knowledgeable opponent in order to look good.

The outcome, was the two of them being lost in the ring, not knowing how to start off the match.

That's all that happened.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:05 PM   #18
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Well, still...Goldberg/Lesnar wasn't the WORST. It was just a case of WWE putting a match together between two guys who couldn't call a match and had to be carried by a more knowledgeable opponent in order to look good.

The outcome, was the two of them being lost in the ring, not knowing how to start off the match.

That's all that happened.
I disagree. I think that given the right circumstance and the right frame of mind for both men that it could've been a great powerhouse wrestler type of match. The problem was that the crowd psyched them both out to the point that they really couldn't do anything. Both men had limitations inside the ring and the crowd fucked with their heads so badly that their limitations became their most prominent attributes. It could've been a great match but neither man "had it in them" that night.

Still isn't the worst match in Mania history though, by far. Playboy Pillow Fight anyone? Even some of the horribly thrown together tag matches from WM2000 were far worse. Lesnar/Goldberg is fun to watch if only for that "holy shit what a train wreck" feeling and the insanity of the crowd in MSG that night.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #19
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I disagree. I think that given the right circumstance and the right frame of mind for both men that it could've been a great powerhouse wrestler type of match. The problem was that the crowd psyched them both out to the point that they really couldn't do anything. Both men had limitations inside the ring and the crowd fucked with their heads so badly that their limitations became their most prominent attributes. It could've been a great match but neither man "had it in them" that night.

Still isn't the worst match in Mania history though, by far. Playboy Pillow Fight anyone? Even some of the horribly thrown together tag matches from WM2000 were far worse. Lesnar/Goldberg is fun to watch if only for that "holy shit what a train wreck" feeling and the insanity of the crowd in MSG that night.
In every match, there comes a point where one of the 2 guys has to lead, and neither Brock nor Goldberg had THAT "in them", since they were both pushed to the moon very quickly, having guys with more experience put them over as these "machines" who were indestructible. When the time came for them both to face each other, THAT was the difference.

Goldberg fought Hogan for the Title in the Georgia Dome in front of, what, 80 thousand people or something? He had been in front of huge crowds before, as had Lesnar.

It was just a case of them not having someone to lead.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Nopers. Didn't get 'Mania that year. Only ones I've seen live are 20, 24, 25, and 26. I went a few years without watching wrestling at all. I think it was during the McMahon-Helmsley era.
So it's the worst match in the history of those four Manias?
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:45 PM   #21
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So it's the worst match in the history of those four Manias?
Those are the only ones I've seen live. I've seen all, I think...if not most. I used to have the 'Mania dvd set.

Anyway, yeah. Of all 'Mania matches I've seen, I think Lesnar/Goldberg is the worst. I've stated my reasons for feeling that way, and don't feel like giving them anymore.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:02 PM   #22
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I see where everyone is coming from.
Goldberg/Lesnar is the match that I've been the most disappointed in out of all 'Mania matches. It's hard for me to be really disappointed in any matches that I didn't watch live or wasn't even into wrestling when they happened.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:30 PM   #23
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Goldberg's press slam into a spinebuster alone makes the match far from the worst ever. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen anybody do in a wrestling ring. The fact that a crowd that were trying their hardest to shit on the match and bury it still popped tells you everything about how impressive that was.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:45 PM   #24
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Goldberg's press slam into a spinebuster alone makes the match far from the worst ever. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen anybody do in a wrestling ring. The fact that a crowd that were trying their hardest to shit on the match and bury it still popped tells you everything about how impressive that was.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:35 PM   #25
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Fucking muties
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:41 PM   #26
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Goldberg had exciting matches.

End of.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:32 AM   #27
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Is the 2011 version of "MAKE IT OR BREAK IT"?
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:36 AM   #28
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Is the 2011 version of "MAKE IT OR BREAK IT"?
It's not quite that retarded.

But I'm gonna throw this out now: Wrestlemania will never take off. Mark my words.

(Wonder if Krispy is retarded enough to feel the need to correct that one< TOO)
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:45 AM   #29
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Seriously though, I'm more hyped about this Mania than I ever have been.

WWE has the best chance it's ever gonna get to push some of the "new"/"younger" talent.

Having said that, if I don't get wins for Miz & Rhodes and to a lesser extent Del Rio/Barrett/etc my opinion could change.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:03 PM   #30
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Thing that can save Mania

Goldberg vs Gillberg.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:09 PM   #31
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The Brooklyn Brawler vs Gillberg.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:26 PM   #32
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lol: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/genera...stlemania.html
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:45 PM   #33
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A same night MITB cash-in by Christian on Del Rio would make this Mania for me. It'd be like WrestleMania X when Bret won the WWF Title and Owen stared at him like "I beat you earlier you fucker!"

Christian wins MITB, Edge gets screwed out of the World Title by Del Rio, Christian cashes in and we have a kick-start to an Edge VS Christian program.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:56 PM   #34
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A same night MITB cash-in by Christian on Del Rio would make this Mania for me. It'd be like WrestleMania X when Bret won the WWF Title and Owen stared at him like "I beat you earlier you fucker!"

Christian wins MITB, Edge gets screwed out of the World Title by Del Rio, Christian cashes in and we have a kick-start to an Edge VS Christian program.
I like the idea of Christian cashing in to make it a Triple Threat, mainly cos we've seen the "instant cash in" already with Kane (although not at Mania) but cashing in to "right a wrong" against his former partner (not brother) is just as good.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:41 PM   #35
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Maybe "sharing the torch" would be more apt. Y'think we can get that phrase going KK?

Guys like Miz and Morrison and Rhodes won't ever be seen on the same level as a Cena or an Orton unless they start beating those guys. And doing it fairly legitimately (or as much as being a heel allows for legit wins).

With Takers streak, there's little point putting it on the line against the likes of Barrett or Sheamus. We all know the outcome of the match. And whilst it might be possible to "make a star" even in a losing effort against Taker, I honestly can't remember the last time that happened (if in fact it ever has).

And I'm not using this TPWW Logicİ you speak of here. I don't really go in for the bandwagon jumping that it appears a lot of guys around here do. There are some guys in this "generation" that I see as "worthy" and I'd like them to be presented as such.

Where's the benefit in Mysterio beating Rhodes? Or Cena getting ANOTHER WrestleMania Moment?
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:59 PM   #36
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Or Cena getting ANOTHER WrestleMania Moment?
...A HUGE payday.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:01 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Maybe "sharing the torch" would be more apt. Y'think we can get that phrase going KK?

Guys like Miz and Morrison and Rhodes won't ever be seen on the same level as a Cena or an Orton unless they start beating those guys. And doing it fairly legitimately (or as much as being a heel allows for legit wins).

With Takers streak, there's little point putting it on the line against the likes of Barrett or Sheamus. We all know the outcome of the match. And whilst it might be possible to "make a star" even in a losing effort against Taker, I honestly can't remember the last time that happened (if in fact it ever has).
Orton got a bit of a bump after his Mania match against Taker at WrestleMania 21, if only for looking like a bad ass after his chokeslam reversal into the RKO.

But I agree with you. There's no way to make the new generation into legitimate stars until they start getting legitimate wins. Even CM Punk hasn't really reached "that level" yet, despite being a former World Champion and PPV main eventer. I think the only legit wins he's gotten over main eventers were against Jeff Hardy, and that's not that much to brag about. They need to not be afraid of having their top guys like Cena, Orton, Taker and Triple H lose clean from time to time. There's nothing interesting about a face versus heel match if you don't feel like the heel has a chance of winning the thing. When Jeff got a couple clean wins over Triple H in the build-up to his WWE Title push it did wonders for him. Why can't they do the same for their bad guys, too?
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:08 PM   #38
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Wrestlemania now needs to be saved because Sting didn't show?

Personally I think The Rock returning after 7 years is pretty damn good. Especially based on how people clammored for it over the past years. And they're making the best of it thus far.
But now it's here and it's not enough for some, I guess.

I think fans are way spoiled when it comes to Wrestlemania. Every year people expect more and more out of the cards, and it's because since WWE bought WCW, they've given it.
Look at Wrestlemania pre-17. It's a wrestling show. Yes, it's supposed to be the best of the year, but they should do their best with what they have on the roster, and provide hot storylines and matchups that serve the current direction.
But now people want multiple dream matches, and every star from the 90s.

The past year has been a huge youth movement. The matchups aren't dream matches because this early in a generation you just aren't going to have dream matchups.
If you ever want to see dream matchups and hugely anticipated feuds again, there is going to have to be a period where they are forged.

That's how it was at the beginning of the attitude era, and there are only so many years and matchups left in the tank from that generation.
It's time to let the new guys stand on their own. The Rock and HHH/Taker seems like more than enough veteran presence.

I also don't think Goldberg showing up is in any way going to "save" a show that The Rock is already on.
It would be a nice addition, but hardly make or break.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Wrestlemania now needs to be saved because Sting didn't show?

Personally I think The Rock returning after 7 years is pretty damn good. Especially based on how people clammored for it over the past years. And they're making the best of it thus far.
But now it's here and it's not enough for some, I guess.

I think fans are way spoiled when it comes to Wrestlemania. Every year people expect more and more out of the cards, and it's because since WWE bought WCW, they've given it.
Look at Wrestlemania pre-17. It's a wrestling show. Yes, it's supposed to be the best of the year, but they should do their best with what they have on the roster, and provide hot storylines and matchups that serve the current direction.
But now people want multiple dream matches, and every star from the 90s.

The past year has been a huge youth movement. The matchups aren't dream matches because this early in a generation you just aren't going to have dream matchups.
If you ever want to see dream matchups and hugely anticipated feuds again, there is going to have to be a period where they are forged.

That's how it was at the beginning of the attitude era, and there are only so many years and matchups left in the tank from that generation.
It's time to let the new guys stand on their own. The Rock and HHH/Taker seems like more than enough veteran presence.

I also don't think Goldberg showing up is in any way going to "save" a show that The Rock is already on.
It would be a nice addition, but hardly make or break.

That's why fans are so stupid.

They had been clamoring for Bret Hart to return to the WWE for YEARS. Once he did last year, it was "He looks old", "He can't move", "He looks like Ozzy Osbourne", etc.

This year, after so much bitching and moaning for YEARS, The Rock is back in the WWE, and it's not enough for some. They (fans) went along with rumors about Sting going to WWE, something WWE NEVER publicized, and all of a sudden who cares if The Rock is back? Sting didn't go to WWE, so now all of a sudden the WWE is the bad guy, and WrestleMania is in trouble.

Pfft.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:19 PM   #40
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I'm pretty sure that the fans who care about the undercard are the ones who will order/watch Mania regardless.

The average and casual fan really only cares about the main attractions, and that will involve the names The Rock, John Cena, HHH, Undertaker and possibly Shawn Michaels (ref).
That'll do. It's hardly in trouble.
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