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Old 02-27-2011, 10:41 PM   #81
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And for somebody so insistent on Goldberg/Brock being the worst, I take it that means you've seen all of the WrestleMania's in their entirety?
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:43 PM   #82
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I agree to disagree with you and anyone else who has a different view. Goldberg/Lesnar is the worst match in 'Mania history in my opinion. I remember watching it live and thinking "I can't wait for this match to end." I have never felt that way about any other match at 'Mania that I have watched live.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:52 PM   #83
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It wasn't THE WORST MATCH IN WRESTLEMANIA HISTORY.

Remember the Gimmick Battle Royal?

Undertaker vs Giant Gonzalez?

We've seen worse.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:53 PM   #84
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I didn't think LT/Bam Bam or Taker/Bossman were THAT bad. Personally, Warrior/Helmsley is the worst match in WrestleMania history. Chavo/Kane gets a nod also.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:54 PM   #85
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There's a difference in watching a match live and watching a match that was done 5 years before you were born, or even a match that you watched so long after the event.

None of the other matches that have been talked about I have seen live.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:55 PM   #86
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Hell In A Cell - Undertaker vs. Big Boss Man - WM16

Craziest ending ever!!!
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
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There's a difference in watching a match live and watching a match that was done 5 years before you were born, or even a match that you watched so long after the event.

None of the other matches that have been talked about I have seen live.
You never saw the Gimmick Battle Royal? It was like 6 years ago or something.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:57 PM   #88
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Nopers. Didn't get 'Mania that year. Only ones I've seen live are 20, 24, 25, and 26. I went a few years without watching wrestling at all. I think it was during the McMahon-Helmsley era.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:00 PM   #89
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Nopers. Didn't get 'Mania that year. Only ones I've seen live are 20, 24, 25, and 26. I went a few years without watching wrestling at all. I think it was during the McMahon-Helmsley era.
Well, still...Goldberg/Lesnar wasn't the WORST. It was just a case of WWE putting a match together between two guys who couldn't call a match and had to be carried by a more knowledgeable opponent in order to look good.

The outcome, was the two of them being lost in the ring, not knowing how to start off the match.

That's all that happened.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:02 PM   #90
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I see where everyone is coming from.
Goldberg/Lesnar is the match that I've been the most disappointed in out of all 'Mania matches. It's hard for me to be really disappointed in any matches that I didn't watch live or wasn't even into wrestling when they happened.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:05 PM   #91
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Well, still...Goldberg/Lesnar wasn't the WORST. It was just a case of WWE putting a match together between two guys who couldn't call a match and had to be carried by a more knowledgeable opponent in order to look good.

The outcome, was the two of them being lost in the ring, not knowing how to start off the match.

That's all that happened.
I disagree. I think that given the right circumstance and the right frame of mind for both men that it could've been a great powerhouse wrestler type of match. The problem was that the crowd psyched them both out to the point that they really couldn't do anything. Both men had limitations inside the ring and the crowd fucked with their heads so badly that their limitations became their most prominent attributes. It could've been a great match but neither man "had it in them" that night.

Still isn't the worst match in Mania history though, by far. Playboy Pillow Fight anyone? Even some of the horribly thrown together tag matches from WM2000 were far worse. Lesnar/Goldberg is fun to watch if only for that "holy shit what a train wreck" feeling and the insanity of the crowd in MSG that night.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #92
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I disagree. I think that given the right circumstance and the right frame of mind for both men that it could've been a great powerhouse wrestler type of match. The problem was that the crowd psyched them both out to the point that they really couldn't do anything. Both men had limitations inside the ring and the crowd fucked with their heads so badly that their limitations became their most prominent attributes. It could've been a great match but neither man "had it in them" that night.

Still isn't the worst match in Mania history though, by far. Playboy Pillow Fight anyone? Even some of the horribly thrown together tag matches from WM2000 were far worse. Lesnar/Goldberg is fun to watch if only for that "holy shit what a train wreck" feeling and the insanity of the crowd in MSG that night.
In every match, there comes a point where one of the 2 guys has to lead, and neither Brock nor Goldberg had THAT "in them", since they were both pushed to the moon very quickly, having guys with more experience put them over as these "machines" who were indestructible. When the time came for them both to face each other, THAT was the difference.

Goldberg fought Hogan for the Title in the Georgia Dome in front of, what, 80 thousand people or something? He had been in front of huge crowds before, as had Lesnar.

It was just a case of them not having someone to lead.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:25 PM   #93
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Who needs Meltzer when you have the expert inside analysis from Rated R Classic
Good one. Somebody obviously has never seen a Goldberg match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eklipse
So anyone that says that an un-talented, un-charismatic persona such as Goldberg can "save" a WrestleMania card that is in no way "lacking," needs to have their head examined.
But it wouldn't hurt. He's still a big name.

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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw
I like how you are saying one match is not official, while putting forth yet another match that is not official.
If the WWE ever wants to induct Goldberg, this would be the best time. Considering the man lives in Atlanta and won his first world title in the Georgia Dome. If the money is right, Goldberg will be willing to appear and have another match. Goldberg vs. Sheamus in Atlanta would be massive. Not official, sure.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:30 PM   #94
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Goldberg's press slam into a spinebuster alone makes the match far from the worst ever. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen anybody do in a wrestling ring. The fact that a crowd that were trying their hardest to shit on the match and bury it still popped tells you everything about how impressive that was.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:33 PM   #95
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Good one. Somebody obviously has never seen a Goldberg match.
What are you banging on about? Are you going for typical dickhead internet insinuation that Goldberg was worthless? Which wouldn't make sense since you've mentioned Goldberg god knows how many times. And not to mention my comment was aimed at your 'factual information' about Daniel Bryan's Mania plans.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:35 PM   #96
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Fucking muties
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:41 PM   #97
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Goldberg had exciting matches.

End of.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:45 PM   #98
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Quote:
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Goldberg's press slam into a spinebuster alone makes the match far from the worst ever. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen anybody do in a wrestling ring. The fact that a crowd that were trying their hardest to shit on the match and bury it still popped tells you everything about how impressive that was.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:00 AM   #99
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Quote:
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What are you banging on about? Are you going for typical dickhead internet insinuation that Goldberg was worthless? Which wouldn't make sense since you've mentioned Goldberg god knows how many times. And not to mention my comment was aimed at your 'factual information' about Daniel Bryan's Mania plans.
How in the world did I insinuate that Goldberg was worthless? It's a fact that Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus still isn't official. Plain and simple.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:32 AM   #100
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Is the 2011 version of "MAKE IT OR BREAK IT"?
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:36 AM   #101
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Is the 2011 version of "MAKE IT OR BREAK IT"?
It's not quite that retarded.

But I'm gonna throw this out now: Wrestlemania will never take off. Mark my words.

(Wonder if Krispy is retarded enough to feel the need to correct that one< TOO)
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:45 AM   #102
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Seriously though, I'm more hyped about this Mania than I ever have been.

WWE has the best chance it's ever gonna get to push some of the "new"/"younger" talent.

Having said that, if I don't get wins for Miz & Rhodes and to a lesser extent Del Rio/Barrett/etc my opinion could change.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #103
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Quote:
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Nopers. Didn't get 'Mania that year. Only ones I've seen live are 20, 24, 25, and 26. I went a few years without watching wrestling at all. I think it was during the McMahon-Helmsley era.
So it's the worst match in the history of those four Manias?
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:15 AM   #104
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You never saw the Gimmick Battle Royal? It was like 6 years ago or something.
Close try 10. (WM X-7)
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:28 PM   #105
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Seriously though, I'm more hyped about this Mania than I ever have been.

WWE has the best chance it's ever gonna get to push some of the "new"/"younger" talent.

Having said that, if I don't get wins for Miz & Rhodes and to a lesser extent Del Rio/Barrett/etc my opinion could change.
I'm not more hyped than I've ever been, but it doesn't look bad.

Last year had me hyped because even if everything else sucked, there was HBK/Taker. It's rare to have a match that excites me that much, but at the same time, this year lacks that same sort of "big" match.

So far the only thing that's got that "big" feel is a retired wrestling-cum-movie star returning, and he's not even wrestling. That's not to say this won't be a good Mania, or that there won't be great matches, mind. I'm seriously not out to tear down this year's event.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:30 PM   #106
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Close try 10. (WM X-7)
Well, I wasn't sure, just threw a number out there
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:57 PM   #107
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So far the only thing that's got that "big" feel is a retired wrestling-cum-movie star returning, and he's not even wrestling. That's not to say this won't be a good Mania, or that there won't be great matches, mind. I'm seriously not out to tear down this year's event.
Heh. Rock's return (and those of Austin or Trish or anyone else really) doesn't excite me all that much. Bringing him in is looking backwards, I want this Mania to look to the present/future.

Ideally it's time for "Cena's generation" to "pass the torch" to the next set of guys. So I'm looking for (but by no means expecting) wins for Miz, Rhodes, Punk, ADR, etc.

Plus, I think HHH v Taker has the potential to rival HBK v Taker in terms of build. For all the talking up of these "new/young" guys, I do like this match up.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:03 PM   #108
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Thing that can save Mania

Goldberg vs Gillberg.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:09 PM   #109
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The Brooklyn Brawler vs Gillberg.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:11 PM   #110
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Well, I wasn't sure, just threw a number out there
No sweat, just backin ya up.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:26 PM   #111
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lol: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/genera...stlemania.html
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:45 PM   #112
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A same night MITB cash-in by Christian on Del Rio would make this Mania for me. It'd be like WrestleMania X when Bret won the WWF Title and Owen stared at him like "I beat you earlier you fucker!"

Christian wins MITB, Edge gets screwed out of the World Title by Del Rio, Christian cashes in and we have a kick-start to an Edge VS Christian program.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:45 PM   #113
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So it's the worst match in the history of those four Manias?
Those are the only ones I've seen live. I've seen all, I think...if not most. I used to have the 'Mania dvd set.

Anyway, yeah. Of all 'Mania matches I've seen, I think Lesnar/Goldberg is the worst. I've stated my reasons for feeling that way, and don't feel like giving them anymore.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:56 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
A same night MITB cash-in by Christian on Del Rio would make this Mania for me. It'd be like WrestleMania X when Bret won the WWF Title and Owen stared at him like "I beat you earlier you fucker!"

Christian wins MITB, Edge gets screwed out of the World Title by Del Rio, Christian cashes in and we have a kick-start to an Edge VS Christian program.
I like the idea of Christian cashing in to make it a Triple Threat, mainly cos we've seen the "instant cash in" already with Kane (although not at Mania) but cashing in to "right a wrong" against his former partner (not brother) is just as good.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:13 PM   #115
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Heh. Rock's return (and those of Austin or Trish or anyone else really) doesn't excite me all that much. Bringing him in is looking backwards, I want this Mania to look to the present/future.

Ideally it's time for "Cena's generation" to "pass the torch" to the next set of guys. So I'm looking for (but by no means expecting) wins for Miz, Rhodes, Punk, ADR, etc.

Plus, I think HHH v Taker has the potential to rival HBK v Taker in terms of build. For all the talking up of these "new/young" guys, I do like this match up.
The next generation is so "meh." Can't really give a shit.

And there's a strong fan correlation there, too.

Now, I know how TPWW logic works, so let's just get it out of the way. It goes somethign like this.

"I like so and so, so they're successful. I found a bunch of like-minded people in a very limited aspect of the overall community to agree, so it's justified."

It's dumb. And the problem is, it doesn't play with the overall crowd.

If the idea here is to pass the torch, they're doing it wrong. And part of it is not really having a group who's going to carry that torch.

...Okay, okay, except with the aforementioned TPWW logic of "but I like him, so...."

And that's, in a nutshell, why we have a "save Wrestlemania" thread.

And honestly, "Cena's Generation" is in no way old enough to need to pass it. Don't be daft. And there's such a bizarre overlap. It'd be like talking abotu passing the Torch to Batista, a man who was older than many of the öld guard" of the day.

Guys like triple H and Undertaker should be passing the torch. Oh, look. Those two are facing each other. Well, shit. That really blew that idea.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:41 PM   #116
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Maybe "sharing the torch" would be more apt. Y'think we can get that phrase going KK?

Guys like Miz and Morrison and Rhodes won't ever be seen on the same level as a Cena or an Orton unless they start beating those guys. And doing it fairly legitimately (or as much as being a heel allows for legit wins).

With Takers streak, there's little point putting it on the line against the likes of Barrett or Sheamus. We all know the outcome of the match. And whilst it might be possible to "make a star" even in a losing effort against Taker, I honestly can't remember the last time that happened (if in fact it ever has).

And I'm not using this TPWW Logicİ you speak of here. I don't really go in for the bandwagon jumping that it appears a lot of guys around here do. There are some guys in this "generation" that I see as "worthy" and I'd like them to be presented as such.

Where's the benefit in Mysterio beating Rhodes? Or Cena getting ANOTHER WrestleMania Moment?
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:59 PM   #117
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Or Cena getting ANOTHER WrestleMania Moment?
...A HUGE payday.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:08 PM   #118
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Wrestlemania now needs to be saved because Sting didn't show?

Personally I think The Rock returning after 7 years is pretty damn good. Especially based on how people clammored for it over the past years. And they're making the best of it thus far.
But now it's here and it's not enough for some, I guess.

I think fans are way spoiled when it comes to Wrestlemania. Every year people expect more and more out of the cards, and it's because since WWE bought WCW, they've given it.
Look at Wrestlemania pre-17. It's a wrestling show. Yes, it's supposed to be the best of the year, but they should do their best with what they have on the roster, and provide hot storylines and matchups that serve the current direction.
But now people want multiple dream matches, and every star from the 90s.

The past year has been a huge youth movement. The matchups aren't dream matches because this early in a generation you just aren't going to have dream matchups.
If you ever want to see dream matchups and hugely anticipated feuds again, there is going to have to be a period where they are forged.

That's how it was at the beginning of the attitude era, and there are only so many years and matchups left in the tank from that generation.
It's time to let the new guys stand on their own. The Rock and HHH/Taker seems like more than enough veteran presence.

I also don't think Goldberg showing up is in any way going to "save" a show that The Rock is already on.
It would be a nice addition, but hardly make or break.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:16 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Wrestlemania now needs to be saved because Sting didn't show?

Personally I think The Rock returning after 7 years is pretty damn good. Especially based on how people clammored for it over the past years. And they're making the best of it thus far.
But now it's here and it's not enough for some, I guess.

I think fans are way spoiled when it comes to Wrestlemania. Every year people expect more and more out of the cards, and it's because since WWE bought WCW, they've given it.
Look at Wrestlemania pre-17. It's a wrestling show. Yes, it's supposed to be the best of the year, but they should do their best with what they have on the roster, and provide hot storylines and matchups that serve the current direction.
But now people want multiple dream matches, and every star from the 90s.

The past year has been a huge youth movement. The matchups aren't dream matches because this early in a generation you just aren't going to have dream matchups.
If you ever want to see dream matchups and hugely anticipated feuds again, there is going to have to be a period where they are forged.

That's how it was at the beginning of the attitude era, and there are only so many years and matchups left in the tank from that generation.
It's time to let the new guys stand on their own. The Rock and HHH/Taker seems like more than enough veteran presence.

I also don't think Goldberg showing up is in any way going to "save" a show that The Rock is already on.
It would be a nice addition, but hardly make or break.

That's why fans are so stupid.

They had been clamoring for Bret Hart to return to the WWE for YEARS. Once he did last year, it was "He looks old", "He can't move", "He looks like Ozzy Osbourne", etc.

This year, after so much bitching and moaning for YEARS, The Rock is back in the WWE, and it's not enough for some. They (fans) went along with rumors about Sting going to WWE, something WWE NEVER publicized, and all of a sudden who cares if The Rock is back? Sting didn't go to WWE, so now all of a sudden the WWE is the bad guy, and WrestleMania is in trouble.

Pfft.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:19 PM   #120
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I'm pretty sure that the fans who care about the undercard are the ones who will order/watch Mania regardless.

The average and casual fan really only cares about the main attractions, and that will involve the names The Rock, John Cena, HHH, Undertaker and possibly Shawn Michaels (ref).
That'll do. It's hardly in trouble.
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