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Old 07-09-2005, 05:21 PM   #121
Joey Slugs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Oh Shit...

VINCE MCMAHON IS BEHIND AL QAEDA!

And he probably shot tupac. I mean, there were five terrorists in the ring, plus HAssan and Davari...A stable of 7 men...
Don't forget his involvement in the murder of B.I.G., JFK's death, the 2000 election, the Holocaust, and countless other "Ratings Makers".
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Old 07-09-2005, 05:55 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
friend of Shadow's?
I don't know him LC so "Highly" unlikely, but you never know I don't know everything about Shadow as shown last night!
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:01 PM   #123
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So are you posting as Morgan or Amaroqwolf right now?
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:04 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I mean, garrotting a wrestler is so close to bombing a subway.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that it was.

However it IS reminiscent of, for example, Americans being kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq.

I think it was deeply tasteless to use the "war on turrism" as an angle on a day when large numbers of people died in a terrorist attack. I think they could and should have cut the show short.

Part of the reason I feel this is that is stirs up anti-muslim feeling. Part of the reason is that it cheapens a tragedy.

Screening "the pope must die" on the day John Paul II snuffed would have been in bad taste.

Screening a wrestling show where an "Arab-American" gets a group of men in desert camoflage pants, black tops and black balaclavas (intended obviously to be dastardly Arabs) to beat up the crowd favorite on a day when a Muslim group is suspected of planting bombs in the London Underground was poor taste.
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:37 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
Honestly, what's the difference between Muhammad Hassan orchestrating a scripted attack on The Undertaker and any episode of "24?"
Or episodes of CSI dealing with terrorist threats, or episodes of any other TV show that dealt with 9-11, hostage situations, etc.?
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:41 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
I don't think anyone was suggesting that it was.

However it IS reminiscent of, for example, Americans being kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq.
Which is, of course, why the disclaimers said "Due to the tragedy in London..."

Because it was reminiscent of a completely different set of incidents? I'm confused here, Lammy. Nobody here HAD to suggest that, UPN felt it was enough of an issue to make a disclaimer which related this not to beheadings in Iraq, but the bombings in London.

Do you think there would have been four threads on this if the Bombing happened on Friday instead of Thursday? The reaction id deeply related to the bombings.
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:47 PM   #127
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If you want to go after anyone in this incident, go after UPN. The WWE had released their tape to UPN before this tragedy struck. They didn't know that the bombings were going to happen. I'm positive that if this happened on a Monday, the whole thing would have been scrapped on RAW.
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:58 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Which is, of course, why the disclaimers said "Due to the tragedy in London..."

Because it was reminiscent of a completely different set of incidents? I'm confused here, Lammy. Nobody here HAD to suggest that, UPN felt it was enough of an issue to make a disclaimer which related this not to beheadings in Iraq, but the bombings in London.

Do you think there would have been four threads on this if the Bombing happened on Friday instead of Thursday? The reaction id deeply related to the bombings.
I don't have the faintest clue what your point is.

Of COURSE the reaction is related to the London bombing. Nobody ever suggested it wasn't. The point I was making in the post you quotemined was that the image of "Arab" terrorists garrotting a fan favorite is REALLY FUCKING UNHELPFUL on a day when anti-muslim feeling will probably be running high amongst some people anyway. The fact that this image was reminiscent of some of the beheading videos only strengthens the blind jingoism.

Excuse me for being disgusted by the promotion of hatred.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:00 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Or episodes of CSI dealing with terrorist threats, or episodes of any other TV show that dealt with 9-11, hostage situations, etc.?
The difference is that no episode of 24 was shown on the night of the London bomb.

It's a common courtesy for TV channels to pull or reschedule possibly "objectionable" content on the day of a tragedy. It's something that happens all the time and should have happened here.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:02 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
The difference is that no episode of 24 was shown on the night of the London bomb.
At least three Episodes of CSI were, any one of which may have been offensive...

Wait...At least four.

-EDIT- Anyone know where one could find a listing of what TV was on Thursday night? I'd like to see what all else might have been offensive that night that was not yanked.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:09 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
I don't have the faintest clue what your point is.

Of COURSE the reaction is related to the London bombing. Nobody ever suggested it wasn't. The point I was making in the post you quotemined was that the image of "Arab" terrorists garrotting a fan favorite is REALLY FUCKING UNHELPFUL on a day when anti-muslim feeling will probably be running high amongst some people anyway. The fact that this image was reminiscent of some of the beheading videos only strengthens the blind jingoism.

Excuse me for being disgusted by the promotion of hatred.
Promotion of hatred?

Okay. Yeah. Why are you even watching wrestling?

Have you watched some of the things La Res said in the past? OR paid attention to the Hassan gimmick at all? Or the resounding way they always bring the war on terror back in, even when there's no arab wrestler?

Where have you been over the past 20 or so years? Chest thumping, bigoted Americanism has been a part of wrestling for a long long time, and THIS of all things gets your nipples twisted?

Oh wait, the timing. Right. Let's yank all programming that generically might have had something to do with the London boming.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:16 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
I don't have the faintest clue what your point is.

Of COURSE the reaction is related to the London bombing.
Then please, get off your pedantic high horse and stop trying to LECTURE me on it if you don't know what it is.

Don't rant if you don't get it. Fucking ask. You're not stupid. Don't be so God damned retarded when you're trying to argue against someone.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:21 PM   #133
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Would it have been okay if the WWE showed this angle at another time? Let's just say that it happens to fall on a day when 100 or so Iraqis die in Iraq and it's not over-publicized in the media. Should the WWE/UPN pull it then?
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:23 PM   #134
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YEah, it's okay to "mock a kidnapping and beheading" as long as you don't air it on the same day a bombing hits.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:25 PM   #135
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nono... if it happens to America or one of their allies then it's bad to air anything cause it may be "offensive"

have it happen to the other countries and folsk would be like wow that was awesome did you see that segment that was cool how they did that.

damn I cna't stand stuff like that.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:27 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Oh wait, the timing. Right. Let's yank all programming that generically might have had something to do with the London boming.
I'm going to use your debating technique now. Bear with me because I'm new at this:

You're absolutely right. We shouldn't ever give a fuck whether something could offend people or not.

Next week Hassan should debut a finisher called the "Number 30" where he dropkicks his opponent in the face. See, it's like he's blowing their top half off! That would be edgy and exciting, and anyone who says otherwise is a whiny crybaby.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:27 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSlim
nono... if it happens to America or one of their allies then it's bad to air anything cause it may be "offensive"

have it happen to the other countries and folsk would be like wow that was awesome did you see that segment that was cool how they did that.

damn I cna't stand stuff like that.
You mean like all those bombings in Iraq? Yeah, fuck those guys. Who cares? I mean, IT HAPPENED TO LONDON!!!!!1111!1!!!!!11!

HALT THE FUCKING TV!
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:31 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
You're absolutely right. We shouldn't ever give a fuck whether something could offend people or not.
Billy and Chuck could have offended the gays, but did the WWE give two shits? Nope.

The Triple H/Katie Vick angle could have offended anyone, but did the WWE give two shits? No.

The Undertaker crucifying Orlando Jordan could have offended anyone, especially blacks, but did the WWE care? No.

The Hassan gimmick could offend anyone. Did they care? No.

Since when does the WWE give a fuck if something will offend a part of their viewership?
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:38 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
Billy and Chuck could have offended the gays, but did the WWE give two shits? Nope.

The Triple H/Katie Vick angle could have offended anyone, but did the WWE give two shits? No.

The Undertaker crucifying Orlando Jordan could have offended anyone, especially blacks, but did the WWE care? No.

The Hassan gimmick could offend anyone. Did they care? No.

Since when does the WWE give a fuck if something will offend a part of their viewership?
they don't cause they have grasped the concept of ENTERTAINMENT.

It's entertainment. Not all entertainment is going to be all nice and pretty. Some of it may be "offensive."
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:41 PM   #140
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yea, nothing shocks me anymore in wrestling. I've seen it all and I really don't care.

The only time I actually felt offended and felt that what they did was real low was when they showed the Nation's dressing room and it had all those hate remarks spray painted on the wall. It was assumed to be the Hart's, but it was DX. Remember that?

I thought that was real fucked up.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:42 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
I'm going to use your debating technique now. Bear with me because I'm new at this:


How the mighty have fallen when it hits close to home.

I haven't read your PM Lammy, and I pobably won't. You've turned into a complete asshole in this thread, and are probably bent out of shape because this DOES hit close to home. Your normally even demeanor isn't present, and you're seriously flopping here trying to tell me why I should take offense because of tangential happenings.

Hey, here's an idea. You can go join Clear Channel, and never have to worry about offense again. Join their march for a PG world. or is it PC?

I don't care.

I do think that we should mind other people's feelings. I also think that if you expected sensitivity from the company who continued after Owen got his skull split; that millked 9-11, the french and the war on terrorism; that has always run with intolerant storylines and endorsed some pretty hateful things, that you are a fucking idiot. Whether it is the great Lamuella or the lowliest n00b.

If you want sensitivity and caring, go watch Lifetime. You won't find any in the WWE, because that's not what they sell. They even fucking warned you all that it'd be offensive. SPECIFICALLY in light of recent happenings.

How many brown people do you think have died on nights where they did that? What? They don't matter to you Lammy? That's right, it's okay to do this stuff on a night where several probably died in Iraq...To run an ongoing storyline while people get limbs blown off, get tortured, or get killed by terrorists and soldiers...

...BUT NOT IF IT HITS SOME PLACE THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS BAH GAWD STUNNER 911 BBQ!
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:44 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
Billy and Chuck could have offended the gays, but did the WWE give two shits? Nope.

The Triple H/Katie Vick angle could have offended anyone, but did the WWE give two shits? No.

The Undertaker crucifying Orlando Jordan could have offended anyone, especially blacks, but did the WWE care? No.

The Hassan gimmick could offend anyone. Did they care? No.

Since when does the WWE give a fuck if something will offend a part of their viewership?
And why trash only one form of intolerance?

I've benn through this once with another hypocrite in this thread. This might offend...As opposed to the other 9,000,000 examples. But no, this one is different. IT's always different.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:44 PM   #143
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let me ask this question:

do you accept the concept that something can be more offensive if it happens very close to something shocking?

To pick one of your examples, if Undertaker had "crucified" Orlando Jordan the day after a lynching, that would have been more offensive than at another time.

If Hurricane Francis (to pick a name out of the air) killed 2000 people in Florida, Shane Helms probably wouldn't have a big role on RAW that night.

Do you accept this concept?

If you do, then picture this particular scene.

I woke up at 7:15 on Thursday morning after a phonecall from my mother in law saying London had been bombed. I turned on the TV, but because right now I only have broadcast TV I had to watch about tornadoes because there was a tornado warning in the area. It wasn't until I got to work that I could find out whether my friends who work in the city centre were alive or not.

One of the things that set my mind at rest most during the day was that London is multicultural enough that there wasn't any anti-muslim feeling even though most suspected Al-Quaeda of the bombing.

I was feeling a little emotionally sensitive still, especially as my best friend was walking towards Russell Square when the bomb went off.

Then I watched the Hassan segments of Smackdown. It depressed me as much as anything else, because it made me think that existing anti-muslim feeling would be aggravated by stupid shit like this.

I wasn't offended because of anything to do with September 11th, I wasn't offended because garrotting someone is like blowing up a bus, I didn't somehow thing this had anything to do with the beheadings in Iraq apart from the costumes and behaviour being reminiscent of this.

I was offended because this was EXACTLY the wrong time to show something like this.

WWE or UPN must have at least suspected it was the wrong time to show something like this. Otherwise they wouldn't have given their disclaimer.

If you can't or won't understand this, then that's just fine, but don't make out I'm somehow stupid or laughable for feeling the way I do.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:49 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
yea, nothing shocks me anymore in wrestling. I've seen it all and I really don't care.

The only time I actually felt offended and felt that what they did was real low was when they showed the Nation's dressing room and it had all those hate remarks spray painted on the wall. It was assumed to be the Hart's, but it was DX. Remember that?

I thought that was real fucked up.
It was fucked up, but it was entertaining. Not because it was like "Yeah, that'll show them thurr niggers!" But because it advanced a storyline in which DX played one stable off another.

This is one in which the heel needs to advance a feud with the undertaker. It's not like there are a lot of options to build a credible feud. Is this the most tasteful thing they could have done? No, but if I was looking for non-offensive programming I wouldn't be watching wrestling (or any other show with more beeped out words than an Eminem record). I wouldn't be watching a show with rapists, murderers, terrorists, vandals, necrophilliacs, violent offenders, racists, and the glorification of VIOLENCE SOLVING EVERYTHING.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:50 PM   #145
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by the way, the argument that I can't take exception to this because I didn't take exception to 21 out of the 43 things on your laundry list of tragedy doesn't hold water.

Call me a hypocrite if you like. Put forward the strawman that I somehow didn't care about whatever your atrocity-of-the week is.

know this, though: I never said that YOU had to be offended by anything at all. I merely expressed the fact that I WAS offended.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:51 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
let me ask this question:

do you accept the concept that something can be more offensive if it happens very close to something shocking?
Yes. I also find it horribly hypocritical.

Weren't you the guy who always spouted "Equal rights for all, or equal rights for none?"

K, so it doesn't apply to other things, just as long as you get YOUR way.

Right.

I'm sick to my stomach now, so you can get the last word or whatever. I don't give a shit anymore.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:52 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamuella
by the way, the argument that I can't take exception to this because I didn't take exception to 21 out of the 43 things on your laundry list of tragedy doesn't hold water.

Call me a hypocrite if you like. Put forward the strawman that I somehow didn't care about whatever your atrocity-of-the week is.

know this, though: I never said that YOU had to be offended by anything at all. I merely expressed the fact that I WAS offended.
And you're whining because it's wrong now that YOU'RE offended.

Good.

Glad you're more than happy to say I can call you a hypocrite, because that's pretty textbook right there.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:53 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Yes. I also find it horribly hypocritical.

Weren't you the guy who always spouted "Equal rights for all, or equal rights for none?"

K, so it doesn't apply to other things, just as long as you get YOUR way.

Right.

I'm sick to my stomach now, so you can get the last word or whatever. I don't give a shit anymore.
Please tell me what you're talking about. I'll stay away from the high horse for the moment, I just don't understand your post.

I don't get it. You told me to ask if I didn't get it. Would you mind explaining?
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:54 PM   #149
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And since I said I wouldn't respond anymore, I'll stick to that promise. You're killfiled Lammy. Be a hypocrite, "If it offends me, I'll act just like the right wingers" SOB, Lammy. The beautiful thing about TV and the internet is if you don't want to see it, you can ignore it.

Your self centered arguments disgust me. So instead of whining about how horrible it is and how it shouldn't be on my monitor, I'm going to remove it.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:55 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
And you're whining because it's wrong now that YOU'RE offended.
No.

I'm expressing my opinion that they shouldn't have shown this at this time.

I really fail to see how this makes me a hypocrite. Or at least how this makes me more of a hypocrite than everybody else on the planet.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:57 PM   #151
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Can someone who doesn't have me killfiled somehow explain how this turned into kk assuming I was a disgusting out of control hypocritical monster? I feel like I skipped a few chapters by mistake.
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Old 07-09-2005, 07:57 PM   #152
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Seriously as a Muslim, I know that it's 'sport entertainment' and I know that it's fake but it pisses me off that he was portrayed in this way. I loved the whole Arab American who felt hated gimmick because he was just an 'everyday guy' but now this has changed.

I tell you what let's get some White Christians and make a KKK stable.
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Old 07-09-2005, 08:01 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Electric
Seriously as a Muslim, I know that it's 'sport entertainment' and I know that it's fake but it pisses me off that he was portrayed in this way. I loved the whole Arab American who felt hated gimmick because he was just an 'everyday guy' but now this has changed.

I tell you what let's get some White Christians and make a KKK stable.
Just bring back the Truth Commission. White Sumpremacists.

Actually, I like your idea better, because the TC came from South Africa. Whereas The KKK could come from all across America, and probably get serious face heat for lynching people and talking about how God hates Fags.

And that would make me laugh, because the "eye for an eye concept" had totally backfired.
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Old 07-09-2005, 08:40 PM   #154
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lol
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Old 07-09-2005, 08:44 PM   #155
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Well, I mean, they're primarily still marketing to rednecks. The people who think Iraq has WMDs and attacked the US. A lot of these people might very well CHEER the whitehoo---Errrr...Hats...
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Old 07-09-2005, 08:52 PM   #156
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Yeah, that is a good point.
I know people say 'who cares' and at least this gives Hassan even more heel heat but it's scary because of the death threats that have already been given.
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Old 07-09-2005, 09:01 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Electric
Yeah, that is a good point.
I know people say 'who cares' and at least this gives Hassan even more heel heat but it's scary because of the death threats that have already been given.
Against Magnus (HAssan), or death threats against Muslims/Arabs because of this sort of shit?
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Old 07-09-2005, 09:03 PM   #158
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Against Magnus, I think it was Daviari who had recieved some.
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Old 07-09-2005, 11:13 PM   #159
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It's horrible, but remember that other people have been threatened without being the antithesis of American society.

I won't say it's acceptable, but shit does happen. Look at all the things Eddie's been through, as an example. This is less about the gimmick, and more about stupid people being allowed to roam free.
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Old 07-10-2005, 09:06 PM   #160
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And also, given Heat, where they were talking about Slaughter's heel turn, I'd say death threats are unsurprising.
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