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Old 02-12-2009, 05:09 PM   #241
Triple Naitch
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They should just bring back the Cruiserweight title and have it defended on ECW
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:28 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
No, what? Most people's problem was that he was being teased to be part of a brothers vs brother feud that harkens back to the glory days of WWE and instead we get Christian just being thrown on ECW with no warning and no heads up. Just flipping through the channels, and then I see Christian v Jack Swagger, what the hell? This is how they bring him back?
Yeah, when was that teased?
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:30 PM   #243
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What good would hyping Christian's return have actually done?
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:36 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
What good would hyping Christian's return have actually done?
If you really have to ask that, then there is no point in talking wrestling with you ever.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:42 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RatedGSuperstar View Post
For those that missed it:









Oh god.

It's even worse than I thought.

[[[[[EDIT - I just listened to the music....I actually don't mind his new theme]]]]]]]

I was under the impression that Christian simply had made a blind-side attack....and hadn't debuted yet in the WWE.

This is an absolute joke.

I mean fuck - if you're going to push Christian as a face, then why not have him go against Jericho at Mania? Perhaps Flair introducing Christian to Jericho would've been a little "too over the top" (i.e. An argument can be made that Christian isn't THAT big a star to warrant Flair introducing him) but still.....that would've been WAY better.



Hopefully - Christian doesn't stay in ECW for very long...if at all.
Last edited by Heyman; 02-12-2009 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:48 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
If you really have to ask that, then there is no point in talking wrestling with you ever.
No, really. It's not like we're talking the return of The Rock here. Christian is an upper mid-carder. And even then, the occasional surprise return is fantastic. People watching the show got a massive reward for tuning in, and any good that hyping Christian's return would have done will be achieved via Christian's return to the brand, anyway.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:49 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
Oh god.

It's even worse than I thought.

What the hell did they do to Christian's music?!?!?! Why not keep the original version of it? (and if it's a copywright issue, why just give him a crappier watered down version of the original?).

I was under the impression that Christian simply had made a blind-side attack....and hadn't debuted yet in the WWE.

This is an absolute joke.

I mean fuck - if you're going to push Christian as a face, then why not have him go against Jericho at Mania? Perhaps Flair introducing Christian to Jericho would've been a little "too over the top" (i.e. An argument can be made that Christian isn't THAT big a star to warrant Flair introducing him) but still.....that would've been WAY better.



Hopefully - Christian doesn't stay in ECW for very long...if at all.
So something that makes even less sense is better??
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:49 PM   #248
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I agree with Triple Hindu, that was poor.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:53 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
No, really. It's not like we're talking the return of The Rock here. Christian is an upper mid-carder. And even then, the occasional surprise return is fantastic. People watching the show got a massive reward for tuning in, and any good that hyping Christian's return would have done will be achieved via Christian's return to the brand, anyway.
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating. By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.

It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:55 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
Oh god.

It's even worse than I thought.

What the hell did they do to Christian's music?!?!?! Why not keep the original version of it? (and if it's a copywright issue, why just give him a crappier watered down version of the original?).

I was under the impression that Christian simply had made a blind-side attack....and hadn't debuted yet in the WWE.

This is an absolute joke.

I mean fuck - if you're going to push Christian as a face, then why not have him go against Jericho at Mania? Perhaps Flair introducing Christian to Jericho would've been a little "too over the top" (i.e. An argument can be made that Christian isn't THAT big a star to warrant Flair introducing him) but still.....that would've been WAY better.



Hopefully - Christian doesn't stay in ECW for very long...if at all.
I don't mind Christian's new music. I think the idea with changing it is that, while it was undeniably a good song, the female vocalist added a sort of passive quality to the theme. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I'm thinking that may be why they did it. A male vocalist adds some bass, and makes Christian look more dominant? If not in a kick-ass way, then it just makes him look less like a "CLB" (that's "Creepy Little Bastard," if you don't remember).

It sounds way better on the television than it does in that video. It's much more distorted there. I've heard a lot of mixed views on the theme. The general consensus is that people generally like it, but don't like the intro. Personally, I think it just needs a longer instrumental lead-in, and it'll be fine.

As far as Christian's promo went, personally, I thought it was awesome. Christian just oozes of charisma, and the "I'm interrupting your promo" bit just reeked of Edge & Christian talking about doing a run-in from the commentary table back in the day. Also, I genuinely marked out a little on the inside when Christian said he was out there to save Jack Swagger's life. The way he said that was perfect. Damn, that is a charismatic man. The fans also bought in hook, line and sinker. He was just on fire in that segment, and played his character perfectly.

The match itself was really good. I liked some of the spots they worked in. The springboard flying sunset flip, and Christian swinging on the ropes to kick Swagger in the face were two spots I really enjoyed. And the German suplex from the apron tease was pretty intense. Given that they were no doubt holding back for a later match, I thought this was more than fine.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:56 PM   #251
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More people watch ECW than TNA, so either way it's a step up.

Plus, anyone who was like "Oh shit, Christian returned and he's on ECW!" will most likely start watching ECW, so either way ratings go up.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:58 PM   #252
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Execpt the problem is that they don't really recap ECW on the other 2 shows.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:58 PM   #253
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Yeah that match itself was good, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, if Christian would've went over on Swagger cleanly, it would've made Swagger look weak.

Seems like you guys are just reacting rather than looking at the big picture here.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:59 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Execpt the problem is that they don't really recap ECW on the other 2 shows.
Somehow, I doubt the return of Christian will go unmentioned on either this weeks Smackdown or next weeks Raw. I could be wrong though.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:00 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating. By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.

It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
If people give a shit about Christian, they will probably feel more urgency to tune in now that he's debuted, and they're missing him being awesome. Whether you hype it or not, the end result is that Christian is a part of ECW. People who watch RAW or SmackDown! are going to find out, and the same thing will be achieved. But it just so happens it also rewards viewers of the show, and of the WWE, who tune in loyally each week in hopes that something good will happen.

I do think they should have announced Christian having some sort of role at No Way Out, though. A backstage segment between Theodore Long and Christian were they discussed Christian being at the PPV to scout, or just something so that RAW or SmackDown! fans who missed his return would be coerced into buying the PPV.

Also, how does this program not make sense? Theodore Long signed Christian to an ECW contract because Christian wants to come back and make an impact by winning the ECW Title? Yeah, Christian returning after three years to run around with old rivals makes a lot more sense.

They can do that later, when Christian is both more established and more comfortable.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:01 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Execpt the problem is that they don't really recap ECW on the other 2 shows.
Um, pretty sure they will make an exception this time.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:02 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
Yeah that match itself was good, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, if Christian would've went over on Swagger cleanly, it would've made Swagger look weak.

Seems like you guys are just reacting rather than looking at the big picture here.
That is exactly it. You and Jeri are spot-on in this thread.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating.

By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.

It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
Couldn't agree any more.

Juan - Granted...my Flair introducing Christian scenario would've been somewhat illogical (I even admitted as such), but atleast it would have put Christian over big time.....although admittedly, there MIGHT have been a lukewarm/slightly disappointed crowd reaction if the fans were expecting Flair to introduce a bigger name. Still - my point remains.

It's just mind numbingly stupid to waste Christian's return on ECW. Hopefully - the 3 people that actually watch ECW on a weekly basis are happy.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:04 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
Somehow, I doubt the return of Christian will go unmentioned on either this weeks Smackdown or next weeks Raw. I could be wrong though.
I just checked the spoilers of Smackdown for friday, it has recaps of other things mentioned, but not ECW or Christian. Now, they might add something, but I'm from missouri, the show me state, so I won't believe it until it happens.

Noid, shut up. You understand nothing about wrestling.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:04 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
More people watch ECW than TNA, so either way it's a step up.

Plus, anyone who was like "Oh shit, Christian returned and he's on ECW!" will most likely start watching ECW, so either way ratings go up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
Yeah that match itself was good, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, if Christian would've went over on Swagger cleanly, it would've made Swagger look weak.

Seems like you guys are just reacting rather than looking at the big picture here.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:07 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
Couldn't agree any more.

Juan - Granted...my Flair introducing Christian scenario would've been somewhat illogical (I even admitted as such), but atleast it would have put Christian over big time.....although admittedly, there MIGHT have been a lukewarm/slightly disappointed crowd reaction if the fans were expecting Flair to introduce a bigger name. Still - my point remains.

It's just mind numbingly stupid to waste Christian's return on ECW. Hopefully - the 3 people that actually watch ECW on a weekly basis are happy.
i don't get it.

If they would have hyped up his debut in ECW, people would give a shit, but now, since he just randomly debuted on ECW, the people who would have watched ECW for his debut wont watch when they eventually find out he has already debuted???
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:09 PM   #262
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If you're a Christian fan, you're gonna start watching ECW regardless of whether or not his return was hyped.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:09 PM   #263
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Let me put it this way:

If it was rumored that The Rock was making a WWE comeback, what should would YOU make him appear on?

-Would it be RAW? If so - why?
-Would it be Smackdown? If so - why?
-Would it be ECW? If so - why?
-Would it be at a PPV? If so -why?

If I had to guess, most 'marketing experts' would say 'RAW' or 'PPV'.

Bottom line? There is just no way a MAJOR superstar would "re-debut" on ECW.

Granted - Christian is not The Rock (or even close), but why basically ADMIT to the public that, "We don't think Christian is a big enough star to automatically re-debut on our #1 flagship show."

As far as I'm concerned, the only 'salvage' point here is if Christian defeats Swagger to become the new ECW champ......and then takes the ECW belt with him to RAW right afterwards.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:13 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
Granted - Christian is not The Rock (or even close), but why basically ADMIT to the public that, "We don't think Christian is a big enough star to automatically re-debut on our #1 flagship show."
Because the last time we saw Christian he was a mid carder.

Unless you're taking into account his tenure in TNA, which would be ridiculous seeing as how WWE has never even acknowledged TNA in any form.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:14 PM   #265
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In what world does a mid carder leave for three years and come back a MAJOR star?
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:15 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
i don't get it.

If they would have hyped up his debut in ECW, people would give a shit, but now, since he just randomly debuted on ECW, the people who would have watched ECW for his debut wont watch when they eventually find out he has already debuted???
It has nothing to do with whether people knew about his debut or not.

My whole point is that him being a part of the ECW roster is mind numbingly stupid....when you consider the fact that almost no one watches ECW.

Instead of 3 people watching ECW, perhaps 4 will now watch due to Christian's presence.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:15 PM   #267
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He was feuding with Cena.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:17 PM   #268
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He was feuding with Cena.
Yeah, but come on, you can't honestly say he was a main eventer at that point.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:18 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post
In what world does a mid carder leave for three years and come back a MAJOR star?
None.

But you're missing my point - why basically admit to the public that 'Christian is average' by making him re-debut on the 'C' show.

Christian was by no means a main-event star, but the guy was very well known and way over.

Although it would've been a stretch, having Flair introduce Christian to a surprised Jericho would've gone over very well.....and atleast would have made Christian look "significant."

p.s. I have a feeling that we might be running around in circles here with this argument. If you don't get what I'm saying, then I'm not really if I can explain myself further here.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:21 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
It has nothing to do with whether people knew about his debut or not. :




Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating.

By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.


It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
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Couldn't agree any more.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:22 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
None.

But you're missing my point - why basically admit to the public that 'Christian is average' by making him re-debut on the 'C' show.
I dunno, maybe to establish ECW as more than just a "C show" ??

Probably the same reason they put Matt Hardy in ECW.

I think you're being terribly close minded about this whole thing. You're basically saying that you think this whole thing with Christian sucks just because it's ECW, which is unfair. ECW is a damn good show.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:25 PM   #272
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This thread is ridiculous.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:26 PM   #273
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This thread is ridiculous.
I agree
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:27 PM   #274
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I bet this is how people who tried to convince other people that the Earth was round and not flat felt.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:29 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
Instead of 3 people watching ECW, perhaps 4 will now watch due to Christian's presence.
Then I shall be number four.

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This thread is ridiculous.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:32 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
He was feuding with Cena.
His feud with Cena was so high priority that they never had a one-on-one match, and Christian was soon shipped off to SmackDown! so they could edit out his face pops and put him in a feud that dragged out over the south.

Also, I get what you're trying to say, Heyman, but I just cannot agree. The Rock is going to draw; Christian is not. It's just the way it is. If The Rock were coming back, you'd market him instantly to put him in the biggest position available. Hell, if The Rock came back, he'd probably win the World Heavyweight Championship at the first available PPV.

As you said, Christian is nowhere near that level. If you asked me where I'd debut Christian, I would go with either RAW or ECW for the brand. Not SmackDown!, because it's not live, and people can read up on what they want to regarding what he does. The live atmosphere creates that surprise factor.

ECW seems like a weird choice, but the more I think about it, the more I'd go with it. Mainly because there are so many benefits to putting Christian on ECW:

1) ECW desperately needs a top face. With Matt Hardy leaving, the best three guys they have are probably Finlay, Tommy Dreamer and Evan Bourne. The WWE are going to chew through those guys so fast. Christian adds an adding something to that mix.

2) The talent exchange means he can appear on RAW and SmackDown!, anyway. Think of this as the ultimate way for Christian to get exposure, as well as paying some dues for walking out on the company. Hell, I wouldn't put it past the WWE to have Christian show up and even wrestle a match on RAW next week. No one has said he's going to be locked away and kept exclusively on ECW.

3) It gives ECW a proper WrestleMania program, instead of a retread of a previous angle. It'll be great to actually give ECW a proper match at Mania, won't it?

4) Christian doesn't fade away this route. If he weren't on ECW, I'd maybe expect Christian to face Big Show, or something, at Mania. Not only would that match not have as much heat as Christian going for a "World Title," but the match quality itself would be fairly low. It'd be like how the WWE put Chris Jericho and JBL together for their program, which I still think was horrible.

The other option is that Christian could have represented RAW in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match, or something, which could have been good, but Christian still would have been presented as a mid-carder heading into it. Given that he'd be a fireball off returning (hopefully), it would also pretty much make Christian a lock to win the match, which ruins some of the fun, and means you get another face win in the match. Christian not being in the match frees up a guy like Shelton Benjamin, who could really use the win, to take it.

At least from a creative standpoint, I think inserting Christian into the Land of Extreme is by far the best move the WWE could have done. Especially considering he'll likely only be there until the draft happens, which is like the week after WrestleMania.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:36 PM   #277
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Honestly,

I truly do hope that Christian's presence on ECW makes a significant amount of more people tune in.

Although I personally don't think it will make that much of a difference, I hope I am wrong.

Time will tell.

p.s. Speaking of Matt Hardy, I wonder how many fans know what Hardy has been up to this past year on ECW? Curiously enough, I also wonder why Matt defected to Smackdown to begin his program with Jeff. Why not have Jeff defect to ECW? After all - a Jeff/Matt feud on ECW would surely make it more than just a 'C' show....right?
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:38 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
None.

But you're missing my point - why basically admit to the public that 'Christian is average' by making him re-debut on the 'C' show.

Christian was by no means a main-event star, but the guy was very well known and way over.

Although it would've been a stretch, having Flair introduce Christian to a surprised Jericho would've gone over very well.....and atleast would have made Christian look "significant."

p.s. I have a feeling that we might be running around in circles here with this argument. If you don't get what I'm saying, then I'm not really if I can explain myself further here.
I think that Ric Flair/Christian idea steps on others creatively, though. I'm fairly certain the WWE wants Chris Jericho to work with Mickey Rourke, Ric Flair or Stone Cold Steve Austin at WrestleMania. All three of those matches would be much bigger than the WrestleMania repeat of Chris Jericho vs. Christian.

Also, why would Ric Flair go to Christian? Of all people, that Creepy Little Bastard is going to be the guy that Flair chooses to defend the honour of Hall of Famers? You could maybe make it work by having Christian talk about how he went away, won the NWA Championship twice, and now has a respect for tradition, but that means the WWE would have to acknowledge the NWA Championship as something that still exists.

Yeah Christian was over, and yeah he was well known, but I think that is why they are easing him back into ECW, reminding everyone of who he is, letting them get to know this face persona of Christian, and possibly giving him the ECW Championship just over a month into his return with the company. Long-term, I think this is going to work out really well, and that all this doubt will be for nothing.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:40 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post
Honestly,

I truly do hope that Christian's presence on ECW makes a significant amount of more people tune in.

Although I personally don't think it will make that much of a difference, I hope I am wrong.

Time will tell.

p.s. Speaking of Matt Hardy, I wonder how many fans know what Hardy has been up to this past year on ECW? Curiously enough, I also wonder why Matt defected to Smackdown to begin his program with Jeff. Why not have Jeff defect to ECW? After all - a Jeff/Matt feud on ECW would surely make it more than just a 'C' show....right?
I think the reason they switched Matt Hardy to SmackDown! is for the potential inclusion of Edge and Christian in the feud. They also want to devote a lot of time to it, and that's something that ECW doesn't really have.

Also, I think the plan is to get Matt Hardy closer to the WWE Championship rather than Jeff Hardy closer to the ECW Championship, which is unmistakeably less prestigious than the WWE Title. It's somewhere between the IC/US Titles and the World Titles, which is why Christian is probably going to win it before he moves up to the SmackDown! scene.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:45 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Heyman Hindu View Post

p.s. Speaking of Matt Hardy, I wonder how many fans know what Hardy has been up to this past year on ECW? Curiously enough, I also wonder why Matt defected to Smackdown to begin his program with Jeff. Why not have Jeff defect to ECW? After all - a Jeff/Matt feud on ECW would surely make it more than just a 'C' show....right?
Maybe, but I don't think there's enough room for that feud on ECW.
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