Nelson v Carwin @ UFC 125?

[MoFo]

UFC heavyweight contender Shane Carwin recently took to his Twitter account to announce his likely appearance on the upcoming New Year's Eve UFC card. In his post, he made a plea for an opponent and it seems as though the slot has now been filled. MMAFighting.com has learned from sources close to the fight that a heavyweight bout between Carwin and Roy "Big Country" Nelson is currently in the works for UFC 125. According to MMAFighting, the only possible hang up at this point in time is Nelson's recovery from knee surgery; which he underwent immediately on the heels of his UFC 117 fight with Junior dos Santos. Nelson and Carwin are both coming off of losses, with "Big Country" having posted a unanimous decision defeat to dos Santos and Carwin having been submitted in the second round of a June title fight against UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar. The two heavyweight fighters managed to cultivate a rivalry after going back-and-forth with insults fired off through their Twitter accounts. Carwin was recently implicated in a federally-investigated steroids conspiracy, appearing on a list of clients to Applied Pharmacy Services who have allegedly received steroids from the drug company. Carwin was named along with 21 other professional athletes as having purchased illegal performance enhancing drugs from APS; however, he has never tested positive for steroid usage. What, if any, impact this ongoing situation has on a prospective bout with Nelson is unknown.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Man, Dana really does hate Fat Country.

[RP]

Love it. I hope Big Country knocks him out.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Fat chance of that happening.

[Krimzon7]

Dana is going to make sure BIg Country looks like shit...then cut him

[The Mask]

I think it's a pretty good fight myself. Nelson should be up there in the UFC heavyweight rankings, and he should be fighting people on the level of dos santos and carwin so it's alright. he also got KO of the night 2 times running so I doubt dana hates him that much.

[The Show Off]

If this fight goes to Round 2 Roy Nelson wins.

That is a huge "if" however.

[Krimzon7]

I think we're selling Shane short. His match with Brock shouldn't even be counted when it comes to his 'gas tank'. If you threw a punch or a kitchen sink that stunned that big motherfucker...wouldn't you freak out trying to finish him?

[Johnny McNasty]

What ever came about Shane Carwin's name popping up in that steroid scandal?

[Nark Order]

Originally Posted by Krimzon7 I think we're selling Shane short. His match with Brock shouldn't even be counted when it comes to his 'gas tank'.

What? Of course it should. He's a professional fighter that wasn't in shape enough to make it past the first round.

[Nark Order]

I mean, I understand that it's the heavyweight division and it takes alot of oxygen to fuel those beasts but even so. I seem to remember Dos Santos and Big Country warring with each other for three rounds and Brock giving a relentless ass whipping to Heath Herring for three full rounds as well.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Narcissus I mean, I understand that it's the heavyweight division and it takes alot of oxygen to fuel those beasts but even so. I seem to remember Dos Santos and Big Country warring with each other for three rounds and Brock giving a relentless ass whipping to Heath Herring for three full rounds as well.

Warring? Nelson looked like utter shit in that fight, was gassed, and was pretty much Dos Santos' punching bag.

[Nark Order]

Well, Dos Santo's fists were warring with Big Country's head at least. His head unfortunately lost.

[Krimzon7]

I am not a fighter. but there have been times where I suffered an adrenaline dump. It is a taxing ordeal. Honestly, it has nothing to do with stamina and more to do with mental preparation.

I empathize with Carwin.

[Stickman]

I like this match up

[Lui Kang]

Originally Posted by Krimzon7 I think we're selling Shane short. His match with Brock shouldn't even be counted when it comes to his 'gas tank'.

Very moronic observation and I completely disagree. The fact of the matter is that Shane's lack of endurance is what ultimately cost him against Brock. Having said that, I take nothing away from Brock. Lesnar hung in there like none other, and I don't think anyone else would have been able to have done the same. However - lets not kid ourselves. Shane should have finished Brock off, but his lack of endurance let him down. Brock easily took Carwin down in the 2nd round as result. Such a huge difference in rounds = lack of endurance.

[Reavant]

he spazed on lesnar to try and finish him off and shot his wad right away. you cant anaerobically explode like that for that long of a time and not be gassed when your done. It was not his "gas tank" it was his head not telling him to pick his shots... only kill

[Reavant]

basically all the people on this forum that ACTUALLY TRAIN have been saying it wasnt his gas tank so much as a bad adrenaline dump, and everyone else goes on saying your retarded if you think he was in shape... just saying

[Krimzon7]

Again, I don't wish to turn this into another 'does carwin actually have cardio' debate...so I'll just say: "You've gotta be there" to understand

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by Reavant basically all the people on this forum that ACTUALLY TRAIN have been saying it wasnt his gas tank so much as a bad adrenaline dump, and everyone else goes on saying your retarded if you think he was in shape... just saying

Not just anybody who trains would know, anybody who has played sports would know.

[Lui Kang]

Originally Posted by Reavant basically all the people on this forum that ACTUALLY TRAIN have been saying it wasnt his gas tank so much as a bad adrenaline dump, and everyone else goes on saying your retarded if you think he was in shape... just saying

It's a stupid argument. While it's true that someone does experience an emotional letdown after having had an 'adrenaline dump', how the hell do you think a guy feels after he's had his ass kicked for 'x' number of minutes?
Carwin might have been worn down, but Lesnar was FAR more worn down after the ass-whipping he received in the 1st round. During the 1st round break, both men had a chance to recouperate a little. Lesnar got his wind back to a very large extent. Carwin did not. What the heck does that tell you?

For a Mixed Martial Arts competitor, you don't seem to know very much about conditioning.

[Reavant]

HAHA WHAT?! your seriously barking up the wrong tree.

It has nothing to do with emotional let down. Its a physiological issue with the entire body at that point.

Lesnars ass whooping did nothing to his cardio. He was covering up the entire time. He even said he could feel carwin shooting his wad and waited it out. What that tells me is he was extremely intelligent about it and wasted very little energy while carwin wasted a lot. Did you happen to miss how lesnar got back to his feet and pinned carwin against the cage to end the round.

It is clear you are completely ignorant towards conditioning and how the human body works.

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by Stickman Not just anybody who trains would know, anybody who has played sports would know.

your right... its just that the people here i know train (me, ecg, krimson) are all the ones who have attested to the idea of an adrenaline dump.

[Stickman]

I know, it's pretty obvious some people here have never done anything physical in their life.

[Kris P Lettus]

Carwin's cardio will def be better than the Lesnar fight.. I see him KO'ing Nelson early though..

[Lui Kang]

Originally Posted by Reavant Lesnars ass whooping did nothing to his cardio.

Did I say or imply that Lesnar's asswhopping affected his cardio? Give your head a shake. All I said was that Lesnar should have been far more 'worn down' than Carwin after the ass-whipping he received. Instead - it was Lesnar who was the fresher of the two when round two commenced. Or maybe in your world, an "Adrenaline Dump" is more of a physiological issue than having had your ASS KICKED for 2 minutes straight. LOL.

You might be a moron, but you're an entertaining moron...I'll give you that much.

[Nark Order]

Reavant is an MMA fighter. I'd probably trust his take on the issue over a fan. Dunno.

[Lui Kang]

Good for you then.

Maybe next time you're in a fight and you're getting the shit kicked out of you, you can take solace in the fact that your opponent will tire himself out while you sit there like a schmuck curled up in ball (while not losing any energy mind you...you'll be completely fresh!)

[SuperSlim]

Originally Posted by Lui Kang Did I say or imply that Lesnar's asswhopping affected his cardio? Give your head a shake. All I said was that Lesnar should have been far more 'worn down' than Carwin after the ass-whipping he received. Instead - it was Lesnar who was the fresher of the two when round two commenced. Or maybe in your world, an "Adrenaline Dump" is more of a physiological issue than having had your ASS KICKED for 2 minutes straight. LOL. You might be a moron, but you're an entertaining moron...I'll give you that much.

Dude,

Carwin DID clock Lesnar a couple of good times to get him down to that position BUT the problem there is that Carwin just pretty much unleashed punch after punch after punch for about 2 minutes straight. Lesnar had his head and face covered and Carwin mainly punched Lesnar's hands, arms, shoulders, and I would say very seldom was able to get through to the face. Carwin didn't pace himself at all because the adrenaline was running high. It wasn't that his cardio just absolutely sucked cause he was a Division II wrestling champion. I doubt your cardio can suck and be a wrestling champion no matter what Division it is.

You go out there, you play sports, you have that adrenaline rush and it's like there is not a thing that can slow you down, nothing that can stop you. Once it's depleted/dumped then it isn't like you're going to be able to pick right back up and go full throttle. Which is why it's not smart to go into a fight full of rage because once that rage is gone... you're pretty much done for. It isn't that your cardio is gone because it's still there but that high that you were on is gone.

And that's what happened to Carwin. He was on that high and he didn't get his punches where they needed to be. Lesnar remained calm, alert, and defended well enough so that he was "fresher" when the second round started and was able to take down Carwin and lock in the submission.

I would say re-watch the fight and see what Carwin did in there. The first time I watched it I was like Carwin just dominated Lesnar... no way Lesnar should have survived or even had the round end. Second time I watched it I saw that Lesnar was defending very well and knew what he was doing which was why he was able to survive the onslaught and perform the way he did afterward.

But... I dunno... you seem rather set in your way of thinking and believe everyone else is wrong no matter what they say. I'm just saying re-evaluate your stance.

[Lui Kang]

Fair enough, and I'm glad that there's atleast some thought behind your analysis...although I don't completely agree with it.

The problem I have with your analysis however, is that you make it sound like Lesnar absorbed absolutely no pain whatsoever. Smart defense or no smart defense, the fact of the matter is that when you take an asswhipping THAT badly, it WILL affect you...and it WILL drain your energy.

To say than an 'adrenaline rush' and going full throttle is less energy draining then getting your butt kicked, is completely fallacious. Lesnar recovered quickly after that because he's in tremendous shape...although you could still see that he was slightly dazed at the start of round 2.

Maybe a fair statement to make is that Carwin isn't in bad shape...but Lesnar is in far better shape.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

i find i've experienced said dump in a rugby match before. start off full throttle then blow my wad, and i've got nothing left in the tank.

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by Lui Kang Did I say or imply that Lesnar's asswhopping affected his cardio? Give your head a shake. All I said was that Lesnar should have been far more 'worn down' than Carwin after the ass-whipping he received. Instead - it was Lesnar who was the fresher of the two when round two commenced. Or maybe in your world, an "Adrenaline Dump" is more of a physiological issue than having had your ASS KICKED for 2 minutes straight. LOL. You might be a moron, but you're an entertaining moron...I'll give you that much.

He got knocked down yes but he recovered on bottom where he didnt take any legit damage. Because had he, the fight might have been stopped, but he blocked all of carwin's punches. Did you watch the fucking fight?

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by Lui Kang Fair enough, and I'm glad that there's atleast some thought behind your analysis...although I don't completely agree with it. The problem I have with your analysis however, is that you make it sound like Lesnar absorbed absolutely no pain whatsoever. Smart defense or no smart defense, the fact of the matter is that when you take an asswhipping THAT badly, it WILL affect you...and it WILL drain your energy. To say than an 'adrenaline rush' and going full throttle is less energy draining then getting your butt kicked, is completely fallacious. Lesnar recovered quickly after that because he's in tremendous shape...although you could still see that he was slightly dazed at the start of round 2. Maybe a fair statement to make is that Carwin isn't in bad shape...but Lesnar is in far better shape.

Lesnar absorbed pain to get where he was, but once there, he did not. Getting punched in your arms isnt going to really drain you as we saw with him standing up at the end of the round.

Heres why you need to shut the fuck up. You clearly dont know how the body works. Fighting can be both an aerobic and anaerobic activity. Now aerobic means keeping your body around a peak heart rate and taking in sufficient oxygen while anaerobic means going way past that and not taking in sufficient oxygen. Now your body can fuction for a very long time aerobically if your in great condition, but you still cant go crazy. I mean look at gsp, hughes, velasquez and all the other guys known for great cardio, they still dont go ape shit like carwin did.

Now when you train for a fight, you generally will do conditioning drills that look like what carwin was doing to lesnar. The idea of the drill is to push yourself so hard that you have nothing left. Usually you do this for 30 second to minute bursts with about thirty seconds to a minute rest in between. Carwin went at it like that for close to 3 minutes without stopping. Then, only got about a minute to recover between rounds.

Now if you stay in an anaerobic state for too long, your body starts producing lactic acid everywhere because its not getting the oxygen it needs. Basically your body thinks its dying and this can cause your limbs to feel like jelly or very heavy and even cause painful cramping. This is to get you to stop using your muscles so that the oxygen that is being taken in, goes to your organs. To be able to recover you will need time at least equal to your time of exertion. Carwin did not have that. Making him a sitting duck in the next round to a relatively fresh lesnar.


OK? So go play somewhere else little boy, the men here are having a discussion.

[Krimzon7]

Originally Posted by Reavant Lesnar absorbed pain to get where he was, but once there, he did not. Getting punched in your arms isnt going to really drain you as we saw with him standing up at the end of the round. Heres why you need to shut the fuck up. You clearly dont know how the body works. Fighting can be both an aerobic and anaerobic activity. Now aerobic means keeping your body around a peak heart rate and taking in sufficient oxygen while anaerobic means going way past that and not taking in sufficient oxygen. Now your body can fuction for a very long time aerobically if your in great condition, but you still cant go crazy. I mean look at gsp, hughes, velasquez and all the other guys known for great cardio, they still dont go ape shit like carwin did. Now when you train for a fight, you generally will do conditioning drills that look like what carwin was doing to lesnar. The idea of the drill is to push yourself so hard that you have nothing left. Usually you do this for 30 second to minute bursts with about thirty seconds to a minute rest in between. Carwin went at it like that for close to 3 minutes without stopping. Then, only got about a minute to recover between rounds. Now if you stay in an anaerobic state for too long, your body starts producing lactic acid everywhere because its not getting the oxygen it needs. Basically your body thinks its dying and this can cause your limbs to feel like jelly or very heavy and even cause painful cramping. This is to get you to stop using your muscles so that the oxygen that is being taken in, goes to your organs. To be able to recover you will need time at least equal to your time of exertion. Carwin did not have that. Making him a sitting duck in the next round to a relatively fresh lesnar. OK? So go play somewhere else little boy, the men here are having a discussion.

Once again Reav, nicely put. I'm not going to get into the bashing, etc. I want to stay on topic. None of this will matter, Nelson cannot take too many of the punches from Shane...no matter where they land!

[SuperSlim]

Yeah as far as the fight goes... Nelson has a chance if he can connect with a few. But I'm thinking Shane is going to have the overall strength advantage as well as speed. And in the end Shane is going to come out with a KO victory at the end of round one.

[Krimzon7]

I would normally say that if nelson can get this to the ground then he'd have a chance. But what have we seen out of Nelson's Highly touted Jiu Jitsu? He's got a gut, and uses it for a very dominant Side Control/Saliverry. But, how is he off his back? I've heard about how he dominated Mir in a No Gi tourney, but can he get it to the ground and GIT ER DUN???

[Reavant]

Prolly not on bottom

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by The Show Off If this fight goes to Round 2 Roy Nelson wins. That is a huge "if" however.

Allow me to clarify this point...

I'm not saying that Shane doesn't have a gas tank, I'm saying that I think Roy Nelson is savvy enough of a fighter that if you let him stick around long enough he'll find a way. He has better stand up than Shane so I think if he gets out of the first round he can work on out pointing Shane in the stand up. And if for some reason Roy Nelson can get Carwin on the ground Carwin will be in heaps of trouble.

[Krimzon7]

Originally Posted by The Show Off Allow me to clarify this point... I'm not saying that Shane doesn't have a gas tank, I'm saying that I think Roy Nelson is savvy enough of a fighter that if you let him stick around long enough he'll find a way. He has better stand up than Shane so I think if he gets out of the first round he can work on out pointing Shane in the stand up. And if for some reason Roy Nelson can get Carwin on the ground Carwin will be in heaps of trouble.

makes a lot of sense.

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by Reavant Prolly not on bottom

Anyone on the bottom of Shane Carwin in is a lot of trouble the guy has devestating ground and pound.