Nelson v Carwin @ UFC 125?

[Lui Kang]

Fair enough, and I'm glad that there's atleast some thought behind your analysis...although I don't completely agree with it.

The problem I have with your analysis however, is that you make it sound like Lesnar absorbed absolutely no pain whatsoever. Smart defense or no smart defense, the fact of the matter is that when you take an asswhipping THAT badly, it WILL affect you...and it WILL drain your energy.

To say than an 'adrenaline rush' and going full throttle is less energy draining then getting your butt kicked, is completely fallacious. Lesnar recovered quickly after that because he's in tremendous shape...although you could still see that he was slightly dazed at the start of round 2.

Maybe a fair statement to make is that Carwin isn't in bad shape...but Lesnar is in far better shape.

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by Lui Kang Fair enough, and I'm glad that there's atleast some thought behind your analysis...although I don't completely agree with it. The problem I have with your analysis however, is that you make it sound like Lesnar absorbed absolutely no pain whatsoever. Smart defense or no smart defense, the fact of the matter is that when you take an asswhipping THAT badly, it WILL affect you...and it WILL drain your energy. To say than an 'adrenaline rush' and going full throttle is less energy draining then getting your butt kicked, is completely fallacious. Lesnar recovered quickly after that because he's in tremendous shape...although you could still see that he was slightly dazed at the start of round 2. Maybe a fair statement to make is that Carwin isn't in bad shape...but Lesnar is in far better shape.

Lesnar absorbed pain to get where he was, but once there, he did not. Getting punched in your arms isnt going to really drain you as we saw with him standing up at the end of the round.

Heres why you need to shut the fuck up. You clearly dont know how the body works. Fighting can be both an aerobic and anaerobic activity. Now aerobic means keeping your body around a peak heart rate and taking in sufficient oxygen while anaerobic means going way past that and not taking in sufficient oxygen. Now your body can fuction for a very long time aerobically if your in great condition, but you still cant go crazy. I mean look at gsp, hughes, velasquez and all the other guys known for great cardio, they still dont go ape shit like carwin did.

Now when you train for a fight, you generally will do conditioning drills that look like what carwin was doing to lesnar. The idea of the drill is to push yourself so hard that you have nothing left. Usually you do this for 30 second to minute bursts with about thirty seconds to a minute rest in between. Carwin went at it like that for close to 3 minutes without stopping. Then, only got about a minute to recover between rounds.

Now if you stay in an anaerobic state for too long, your body starts producing lactic acid everywhere because its not getting the oxygen it needs. Basically your body thinks its dying and this can cause your limbs to feel like jelly or very heavy and even cause painful cramping. This is to get you to stop using your muscles so that the oxygen that is being taken in, goes to your organs. To be able to recover you will need time at least equal to your time of exertion. Carwin did not have that. Making him a sitting duck in the next round to a relatively fresh lesnar.


OK? So go play somewhere else little boy, the men here are having a discussion.

[Krimzon7]

Originally Posted by Reavant Lesnar absorbed pain to get where he was, but once there, he did not. Getting punched in your arms isnt going to really drain you as we saw with him standing up at the end of the round. Heres why you need to shut the fuck up. You clearly dont know how the body works. Fighting can be both an aerobic and anaerobic activity. Now aerobic means keeping your body around a peak heart rate and taking in sufficient oxygen while anaerobic means going way past that and not taking in sufficient oxygen. Now your body can fuction for a very long time aerobically if your in great condition, but you still cant go crazy. I mean look at gsp, hughes, velasquez and all the other guys known for great cardio, they still dont go ape shit like carwin did. Now when you train for a fight, you generally will do conditioning drills that look like what carwin was doing to lesnar. The idea of the drill is to push yourself so hard that you have nothing left. Usually you do this for 30 second to minute bursts with about thirty seconds to a minute rest in between. Carwin went at it like that for close to 3 minutes without stopping. Then, only got about a minute to recover between rounds. Now if you stay in an anaerobic state for too long, your body starts producing lactic acid everywhere because its not getting the oxygen it needs. Basically your body thinks its dying and this can cause your limbs to feel like jelly or very heavy and even cause painful cramping. This is to get you to stop using your muscles so that the oxygen that is being taken in, goes to your organs. To be able to recover you will need time at least equal to your time of exertion. Carwin did not have that. Making him a sitting duck in the next round to a relatively fresh lesnar. OK? So go play somewhere else little boy, the men here are having a discussion.

Once again Reav, nicely put. I'm not going to get into the bashing, etc. I want to stay on topic. None of this will matter, Nelson cannot take too many of the punches from Shane...no matter where they land!

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Reavant Lesnar absorbed pain to get where he was, but once there, he did not. Getting punched in your arms isnt going to really drain you as we saw with him standing up at the end of the round. Heres why you need to shut the fuck up. You clearly dont know how the body works. Fighting can be both an aerobic and anaerobic activity. Now aerobic means keeping your body around a peak heart rate and taking in sufficient oxygen while anaerobic means going way past that and not taking in sufficient oxygen. Now your body can fuction for a very long time aerobically if your in great condition, but you still cant go crazy. I mean look at gsp, hughes, velasquez and all the other guys known for great cardio, they still dont go ape shit like carwin did. Now when you train for a fight, you generally will do conditioning drills that look like what carwin was doing to lesnar. The idea of the drill is to push yourself so hard that you have nothing left. Usually you do this for 30 second to minute bursts with about thirty seconds to a minute rest in between. Carwin went at it like that for close to 3 minutes without stopping. Then, only got about a minute to recover between rounds. Now if you stay in an anaerobic state for too long, your body starts producing lactic acid everywhere because its not getting the oxygen it needs. Basically your body thinks its dying and this can cause your limbs to feel like jelly or very heavy and even cause painful cramping. This is to get you to stop using your muscles so that the oxygen that is being taken in, goes to your organs. To be able to recover you will need time at least equal to your time of exertion. Carwin did not have that. Making him a sitting duck in the next round to a relatively fresh lesnar. OK? So go play somewhere else little boy, the men here are having a discussion.

That's pretty much all correct, aside from your body "thinking" it's dying. Your body goes into metabolic acidosis (i.e. your blood pH becomes acidic) because of the amount of lactic acid and CO2 from anaerobic respiration, so to prevent tissue damage due to the build-up of acidic metabolites, your muscles send pain signals and give the feeling of fatigue so that you reduce the workload and your lungs can deliver more oxygen and remove the CO2 building up.

Essentially the more you train, the more efficient your heart becomes at delivering oxygenated blood to your tissues and this is what improves your ability to supply your muscles with energy. However, the more trained your muscles become, the more energy they need and elite athletes can have an issue where their muscles become so powerful that, when used at maximal exertion for an extended period of time, it's just not possible for their heart to supply the necessary oxygen. The whole point of endurance training and stuff like HIIT is to push up the ability of your heart to pump blood and so increase the amount of oxygen you can consume which each breath.

I think Carwin punched himself out. He was going all out, trying to finish the fight, but he wasn't picking his punches and wasn't doing much damage at all after the initial flurry (where I think the fight would have been stopped in other cases). Given the occasion he was probably massively hyped up too, which is where the adrenaline comes in, increasing energy consumption by his muscles beyond what his heart could deliver O2 to meet. I can't watch the fight back but there's a chance he may have held his breath too when he was trying to finish the fight, even a guy at his level may have stopped his breathing when in that situation. It's almost instinctive to hold your breath when fighting.

You can't really say he hasn't got a gas tank until he goes the distance in a fight. A guy like Roy Nelson, I would ignore punching him in the head for a while and just work his fat body. Savage body punches are almost worse than a head punch. Give him some awful punches to the ribs and kidneys. Sometimes I don't think they mix it up enough in UFC with the stand up, with those smaller gloves you could break a guy's rib with a well aimed uppercut under the tits.

[Lui Kang]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto That's pretty much all correct, aside from your body "thinking" it's dying. Your body goes into metabolic acidosis (i.e. your blood pH becomes acidic) because of the amount of lactic acid and CO2 from anaerobic respiration, so to prevent tissue damage due to the build-up of acidic metabolites, your muscles send pain signals and give the feeling of fatigue so that you reduce the workload and your lungs can deliver more oxygen and remove the CO2 building up.

Wrong.

What you are referring to is lactic acidosis not metabolic acidosis. Other than that though, you gave a good analysis. Just make sure to check your facts a little more closely next time.

[Reavant]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto You can't really say he hasn't got a gas tank until he goes the distance in a fight. A guy like Roy Nelson, I would ignore punching him in the head for a while and just work his fat body. Savage body punches are almost worse than a head punch. Give him some awful punches to the ribs and kidneys. Sometimes I don't think they mix it up enough in UFC with the stand up, with those smaller gloves you could break a guy's rib with a well aimed uppercut under the tits.

I dunno his gut is SO BIG that it might give him ample enough padding to keep his organs same. dos santos pounded his belly too and didnt kill him.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Reavant I dunno his gut is SO BIG that it might give him ample enough padding to keep his organs same. dos santos pounded his belly too and didnt kill him.

I mean hitting him a bit higher up. His gut is massive so he probably wouldn't even feel a punch there, especially since he probably has quite strong muscle underneath as a trained fighter, but absolutely no one likes getting hit in and just under the ribs and on the kidney area. Even just under the armpit. Those punches can finish a fight quicker than head punches, especially with a guy like Nelson who seems to have a Homer Simpson-like ability to take hits to the brain.