One Mans Reaction to racial slur on Survivor Series

[Afterlife]

Um...Sarcasm, anyone?

[Afterlife]

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 It's the same way with any non/anti-American heel gimmick in the WWE. They play the race card because it sells. Are you saying that racism had NOTHING to do with this character? Are you saying that the WWE booked the terrorist angle thinking that NO ONE would find it offensive and racist, even though they looked and acted like terrorists? Whether they were planning on them NOT being terrorists later in the angle is moot, because at that time, they were clearly trying to get cheap heat by running something that can be very real, and something that a lot of (stupid) Americans see as what a real Arab is like.

Um, if you're going to make the same points I made, even after I give up on the conversation, could you read my original post, first?

[mrslackalack]

Anyone remember in WCW in Jan or Feb 2001 when Flair got in trouble for making a racial statement at Ernest Miller?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger I always thought the concept of this was fucking stupid. But oh well, people use it...so why can't Vince? Oh wait he's white. That's racism in itself right there.

To be fair, it's easy to not assume that a black guy is being racist when he says nigger.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight To be fair, it's easy to not assume that a black guy is being racist when he says nigger.

To be fair, I've seen people racist against their own people. As crazy as it sounds.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger This niggah thing is ridiculous. People use it all the time...OMG a rich white guy is using it...big fucking deal.

I personally find this to be an indication of just how little "race relations" have chnged since the time of Martin Luther King and the activism that supposedly made equal minorities.

Then again, here I sit from "white privelege" preaching this, so I'm sure I dont' have a lot of credibility.

I find it funny when white peole complain it's unfair they can't say nigger tho.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Destor To be fair, I've seen people racist against their own people. As crazy as it sounds.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Look at black Republicans.

*rimshot*

It happens everywhere. You think that's bad, look at gays. You know how many self-loathing faggots are out there?

[Afterlife]

I frind it droll when people bitch about racism.

[Afterlife]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight You think that's bad, look at gays. You know how many self-loathing faggots are out there?

See? Right there! I don't know KK too well, so I can't say wether he's making a joke or being a douche bag. But the point is, I don't give a damn.

I guess my big problem is I don't see why ppl let "slurs" offend them.

[Destor]

Yeah, but they are faggots. So why be offended?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Afterlife See? Right there! I don't know KK too well, so I can't say wether he's making a joke or being a douche bag.

Maybe a little of both.

[Stickman]

I think the letter writer is correct in his assessment. I'm a white guy and I completely agree with this guy. I grew up around successful businessmen and you know what, if they ever said the word "Nigger" or "Nigga" they'd lose any credibility they have. It's not ok to say those words. It is an offensive word. That's worse than going around calling everybody "asshole". It's not ok to say asshole but Niga is ok? Give me a break. Like he says, just because you hear god awful performers using it in their act or songs doesn't make it right. The only people I ever hear using the N word in real life are wannabe gansters. Classy people, educated people, decent people don't say it. How many college graduates use those words? That's what I thought.

I'm not going to take offence from Vince saying what he did because I personally do not care. But if I were a black man, you're damn right I'd care. Hence why I agree with the writer.

[Kane Knight]

And Vince's "KMA club," his bare ass on TV, his pulling JR's head out of his ass, his firing people for random reasons, these are the watermarks of a classy, educated, businessman?

[46 & 2]

Only white people can be racist. Just ask Al Sharpton. Seriously, though, all the "sensitivity training" videos out there always feature a white guy asking a black guy about basketball, an Asian guy about directions to a Chinese restaurant (the real kicker - he turns out to be JAPANESE!!!), and a Mexican about burritos. How's that for reverse stereotyping?

On a side note, I read a news story about a black judge with Tourette's syndrome, and he would occassionally (even during court proceedings) yell out "NNNIIIGGGAAAAAAAAA!!!!"

For the most part, I feel people need to lighten the fuck up. Hate speech is hate speech, sure, but jokes are just jokes. Why are black people so tall? Because they're Negroes (their knee grows). Am I spreading hate here? I don't think so.

[NoRoolz]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight At what point in time has "Honky" ever been considered a slur on par with nigger?

True, but considering there's no real insult for white people, 'Honky' is about as harsh as it gets, it's a term that is used to insult white people, in the same way 'nigger' is used to insult black people. I know it's not considered a slur as bad as 'nigger' but technically it should be. But still Vince knows how uptight the world is about racism, and was stupid.

Also, I've always looked upon the Rock as white . Well more as a mixed-race but still not 'black' *shrugs*

[Funky Fly]

I understand the guy in Destor's post's feelings on the matter. It's hard to sit and watch jokes like that for some because they know what guys like Afterlife don't: racism is alive and well. And I'm not talking about cross burning ghosts either.

A lot of white people don't realize that they single non-whites out even in the littlest ways. The most common (and obvious) for black people is when a group of guys are shaking hands and when a white guy goes to shake the black guy's hand, he goes for the complex hand shake, instead of a normal one like he did with everyone else.

People don't say "hey look at that guy", they say "look at that black guy". It may be nothing to you, but it's subconscious descrimination that was programmed into you from an early age. Some non-whites can let it go. The guy in Destor's post can't. Because it has greater reaching effects than awkward social situations.

White people, you don't know how good you have it.

[Funky Fly]

BTW, I don't give a shit about SS. Jokes and jokes and jokes, niggers.

[ThruTheWire]

Ahah check this out, Booker calls Hogan a nigga.

http://thatvideosite.com/view/943.html

[Funky Fly]

He got wrapped up in playing a character. Booker wasn't like that through his singles career.

[The Gooch]

Didn't see the PPV.

Hate the N-word no matter who uses it.

I have a hard time saying it or writing it even in an intellectual conversation.

White guilt? Perhaps. I just don't think there is anything cool or liberating about its usage.

I grew up seeing racism being hurled at my sister who is Native. I'm may not have experience the pain of racism personally, but having to witness your little sister coming home all the time crying because of ignorant morons is not very fun.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by NoRoolz True, but considering there's no real insult for white people, 'Honky' is about as harsh as it gets, it's a term that is used to insult white people, in the same way 'nigger' is used to insult black people. I know it's not considered a slur as bad as 'nigger' but technically it should be. But still Vince knows how uptight the world is about racism, and was stupid.

Yeah, but that's just it. When you stack the two up, "nigger" looks worse.

Why? 150 years of slavery? Nearly 300 of racism? Hate crimes?

How can that possibly stack up to "Honky?" Honky was used by white folks before it was ever an "insult." "Honkies" never endured oppression under the term.

Me? I'm of two minds on the subject. One, he shouldn't have said it, and that's that. Furthermore, considering the pussy got rid of Hassan for something FAR less blatant, this is just stupid.

Two, While I appreciate the reasons for taking offense, I don't think it does any good to just hold on to the things that hold power over you. If you let shit like that have power over you, it means the racists are winning.

However, you can't ask people to get over racism and oppression overnight, espcially when it still exists. I mean, you can, but it's prety unreasonable.

[BigChris]

Originally Posted by Disturbed316 In all seriousness, people need to lighten up abit. If Booker T said it to Lashley, would there be this much of an outcry?

Booker T called Hulk Hogan a Nigga once, "Hulk Hogan... Were coming for you Nigga." - Booker T

That guy doesn't even know what he is talking about, I hate this s#$, you wanna talk about racist in Hollywood, go watch Crash. You can call me a cracker, or a honky, or whatever you want, but guess what, I DON'T GIVE A DAMN! So shut up, just because you call me something stupid doesn't mean I have to get all offended. Remember you are talking about a man that think pulling sh#$ out of another man's ass is funny, what did he expect from Vince? I could sit and talk for days about this, contradict everything you say, but I am not going to waste my time, because Smackdown! is now over and I can go dl'd it and watch it, since my damn cable company doesn't carry UPN, and I'd rather do that.

BAM!

[St. Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Pepsi Man That piss-poor writing makes it seem as though you're one of the blunt-rolling dropouts you speak of.

but kayne west makes millions

[Destor]

Crash was about how racist people are, it wasn't being racist but showing us how we are all the same using racism as the tool. Beautiful when you think about it. (BigChris)

[Dorkchop]

Have any balck people posted in this thread, or anyone not white? I'd love to hear their opinion on this subject, and have white guys point out how ok it is to drop the n bomb.

Now on to SS:
I understand the context of the joke. It was meant for Vince to look like a complete fool while trying to act really cool. I understand there was absolutely no intention of it being a racist comment. Personally, I see no harm in the joke. But that's just me. I'm all for pretty much anything being a huge joke.

I'm glad that there were some good points in this thread... Funky Fly and I forget who else.

[Funky Fly]

Originally Posted by Dorkchop Have any balck people posted in this thread, or anyone not white?

Originally Posted by Dorkchop I'm glad that there were some good points in this thread... Funky Fly and I forget who else.

Me = black.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Dorkchop Have any balck people posted in this thread, or anyone not white?

While I'm half white (Half Native), I still consider myself blacker than Funky Fly.

Anyway, wiseass comments aside, I may not know what it's like to be black, but I know what it's like to be a minority. People die in this country on a disturbingly regular basis for being "faggots," and many of them aren't even actually "faggots." And while I can't tell you exactly what he black experience is, I can guaran-damn-tee you one thing: Each "black" person's response will be different. There is no one reaction for blacks to nigger, any more than there is a gay response to faggot, a Jewish response to Kike, or an asian's response to the 5 million racial slurs they have.

I went down to Pearl Street last week, and got shot some dirty looks for the term "queer." Some gays don't care. Some hate the term. Some use it to ID themselves. And yes, there are blacks that do the same thing, it's called empowerment.

This is one of the reasons I use words like fag so damn often, because the more shit like this is used the less meaning it has and the less power it has over people. However, even some of my own friends disagree with me, and feel that the deaths of people like the iconicised Mathew Shepphard or however it's spelled are reason enough to take this shit seriously.

There is. No agreement. In any. Minority. Period.

We are all people who hold different ideals and different things rub us the wrong way.

[Hired Hitman]

The use of the word "Nigger/Nigga" could offend people, but anything could offend anybody.

If a black guy got called a nigger and complains about it, he sounds like a pussy who can't take an insult, if somebody calls you a name, you call them a name, battle them with wit, once it gets to a limit, punch them if you have to, but don't bitch about it, it wont make a difference. (unless you're not white)


...Who cares what people say, anyway?

[Funky Fly]

Originally Posted by Hired Hitman If a black guy got called a nigger and complains about it, he sounds like a pussy who can't take an insult[/COLOR]

Once again, white people don't know how good they have it.

You should be lucky if you call a black guy a nigger and all he does is complain. I know a good number of people who would curb stomp you for it.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Hired Hitman The use of the word "Nigger/Nigga" could offend people, but anything could offend anybody.

There's a difference between "Could" and "is expected to."

Blue could offend.

Nigger is expected to.

[Afterlife]

Originally Posted by Funky Fly I understand the guy in Destor's post's feelings on the matter. It's hard to sit and watch jokes like that for some because they know what guys like Afterlife don't: racism is alive and well. And I'm not talking about cross burning ghosts either. A lot of white people don't realize that they single non-whites out even in the littlest ways. The most common (and obvious) for black people is when a group of guys are shaking hands and when a white guy goes to shake the black guy's hand, he goes for the complex hand shake, instead of a normal one like he did with everyone else. People don't say "hey look at that guy", they say "look at that black guy". It may be nothing to you, but it's subconscious descrimination that was programmed into you from an early age. Some non-whites can let it go. The guy in Destor's post can't. Because it has greater reaching effects than awkward social situations. White people, you don't know how good you have it.

This is basically ridiculous.

I worked in a high-scale casino in West Virhina for ten months, I know racism is alive and well. It actually had me rather sad after the first two weeks, but then I figure, what the hell, the guys were raised ignorant, perhaps I can help them. And you know what? They learned not to talk like a bunch of redneck scumbags when I was around. And not b/c I threatened them, I'm not tough guy. They just...learned. So yeah, racism is alive, but it can be controlled on certain scales.

And yeah, when the color comes up, I say "that black guy", b/c you instantly know which one I mean. If it was 30 black guys and a white guy, I'd say "that why guy". It's called simplification.

Oh, and as for handshakes....I shake hands with prospective employers. Other than that, I -- a white guy -- have my own complicated handshake that I invented for no reason at all that I show to all prospective friends, regardless of color.

I mean, come on. Just saying "White people have it so good" is the most racist thing I"ve heard in this thread, man. Couple years ago, at ten o'clock on a monday night, I was walking home from a class in downtown Pitt. A black guy on either drugs, booze or both tried to mug me. The only mugging I've ever experienced. His reason for mugging me?

"Only rich white boys be walkin' deze streets dis late all alone, nigga, don't you fuckin' lie to me."

Impressive argument. He was too messed up on whatever to threaten me, so I showed him my empty wallet. He then propsed that I accompany him to the drinking establishment of his choice and use my debit card to buy his drinks. I say no, I get punched in the head. Before I can return the favor, my friend pulls over to give me a lift.

So, basically, b/c I was white, I was autromatically rich, racist and superior. That kinda pisses me off. I'm white, so I have to defend myself from scumbags and thieves. I'm white, so I have to watch my language -- I'm white...so I'm the bad guy.

Man...this really IS the life.

[Funky Fly]

1. Some non-whites are racists too. I never said we are all saints.

2. Hundreds of years of indoctrinated racism tends to produce scummy guys like your mugger friend.

3. When I say white people don't know how good they have it, I mean it.

You're not nearly as likely to be turned down for a good job because of you're skin color (something that a law actually had to be passed to control ie Affirmative Action).

You can live in any nice neighborhood and not have to worry about realtors and neighbors trying to get you to move out, solely because of your appearance or accent (the Fair Housing Act had to be passed for that and is still ignored to this day).

People don't tell you that "you're so well spoken" just becaue you don't sound retarded.

You don't get pulled over by the cops as much for no reason at all.

I could go on. It's a different world for you and I. I'm not saying I hate you (white people in general, not just you) for advantages you were born with, and I truly believe you (you, individually) don't know just how different life is between whites and non-whites).

I'm sorry to hear you got mugged and all. It's not your (you, individually) fault that things are the way they are. The earlier generations of white people made this mess. It sounds racist coming from a black mouth, but fact is fact. White people killed off most of the Native Americans, enslaved large numbers of Africans, colonized Africa (and made a rather big mess of it) and the effects of that are still being felt today. And that's just North America and Africa. There's still a lot of Asia, Australia and South America as well.

Call me racist if you like. But I'm just stating fact.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

A few things.

First, I think we should differentiate between Vince the character, and Vince the businessman. The one who said Nigga was the character, and we should be able to distinguish between the character and real life.

As far as what FUnky is saying, he's right. I mean hell, even back in grade school, when I went to a primarly black grade school (Maybe 3% white) the principle, who was a middle age black lady, suggested highly that when I go to Jr. High, that I transfer into a whiter school. Not because she was worried about my safety or anything (which would have been bull, because contrary to what stupid people may say, I never once had a problem), but because I was a smart kid, and I would get better oppertunities and a bettr education from a whiter school.

[Pete]

The thing about the word 'nigga' is that it has been popularised as a greeting by blacks themselves, to my knowledge Jews don't go around saying to each other 'whatup Kyke'. Also as the article mentions some blacks differentiate between the word 'nigga' and 'nigger'. To a certain extent I think the 'cat is out of the bag' with regard to the word being used by other ethnicities.

For my own part I don't think Vince should have said it and as I have black relatives myself I dislike hearing the word tossed around lightly because of the harm I have seem first hand that it can cause but at the same time I understand why he may have thought it was acceptable to use it. If I was the guy who wrote the article I would direct more of my ire at rappers/others who put the word into the public domain rather than Vince McMahon, especially when it was obvious he had the cooperation of two black people in the skit.

In repsonse to Funky Fly, racism is Far from confined to whites, I mean look at a movie like 'Guess Who' where the cntral joke is the black fathers racism towards the white fiance, if the roles were reversed it wouldn't be treated as a comedy and if it was there would probably be a huge uproar about it.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Originally Posted by Pete The thing about the word 'nigga' is that it has been popularised as a greeting by blacks themselves, to my knowledge Jews don't go around saying to each other 'whatup Kyke'. Also as the article mentions some blacks differentiate between the word 'nigga' and 'nigger'. To a certain extent I think the 'cat is out of the bag' with regard to the word being used by other ethnicities. For my own part I don't think Vince should have said it and as I have black relatives myself I dislike hearing the word tossed around lightly because of the harm I have seem first hand that it can cause but at the same time I understand why he may have thought it was acceptable to use it. If I was the guy who wrote the article I would direct more of my ire at rappers/others who put the word into the public domain rather than Vince McMahon, especially when it was obvious he had the cooperation of two black people in the skit. In repsonse to Funky Fly, racism is Far from confined to whites, I mean look at a movie like 'Guess Who' where the cntral joke is the black fathers racism towards the white fiance, if the roles were reversed it wouldn't be treated as a comedy and if it was there would probably be a huge uproar about it.

Not trying to argue here, just adding a few quick points.

It's not like all black people use the word like that. IN fact, I'd be surprised if more than 50% did commonly.

I really don't think it should be used openly at all, especially by other races.

Chris Rock had a bit where he talks about the difference between black people and "niggers" It's funny, and arguablly true.

"Guess Who." Is a remake of "Guess who's coming to dinner" which was made back in the day. In the film, a white girl brought a black man home for the holidays.

So what's everyone's stance on quoting movie or song lines with the word in it? Always made me hella uncomfortable.

[Funky Fly]

Originally Posted by Pete In repsonse to Funky Fly, racism is Far from confined to whites, I mean look at a movie like 'Guess Who' where the cntral joke is the black fathers racism towards the white fiance, if the roles were reversed it wouldn't be treated as a comedy and if it was there would probably be a huge uproar about it.

First of all, I already said that non-white racists exist too. See the first line of my last post.

Second, "Guess Who" is a remake of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" (which by the way, was released in 1967, when it was somewhat more relevant) with the roles reversed.

[Funky Fly]

WWKD is quicker on the daw.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Flunky Fly 1. Some non-whites are racists too. I never said we are all saints. 2. Hundreds of years of indoctrinated racism tends to produce scummy guys like your mugger friend. 3. When I say white people don't know how good they have it, I mean it. You're not nearly as likely to be turned down for a good job because of you're skin color (something that a law actually had to be passed to control ie Affirmative Action). You can live in any nice neighborhood and not have to worry about realtors and neighbors trying to get you to move out, solely because of your appearance or accent (the Fair Housing Act had to be passed for that and is still ignored to this day). People don't tell you that "you're so well spoken" just becaue you don't sound retarded. You don't get pulled over by the cops as much for no reason at all. I could go on. It's a different world for you and I. I'm not saying I hate you (white people in general, not just you) for advantages you were born with, and I truly believe you (you, individually) don't know just how different life is between whites and non-whites). I'm sorry to hear you got mugged and all. It's not your (you, individually) fault that things are the way they are. The earlier generations of white people made this mess. It sounds racist coming from a black mouth, but fact is fact. White people killed off most of the Native Americans, enslaved large numbers of Africans, colonized Africa (and made a rather big mess of it) and the effects of that are still being felt today. And that's just North America and Africa. There's still a lot of Asia, Australia and South America as well. Call me racist if you like. But I'm just stating fact.

Actually the slave trade couldn't have happened without the cooperation of Blacks in africa, it was blacks who captured the slaves in africa and handed them over to europeans in the west african ports. There was plenty of discord in africa before the arrival of the europeans and europe's colonisation of america was made possible by the cooperation if native allies. You only have to consider the numbers of europeans vs the number of africans/natives to realise that 'the white man' didn't create the mess you speak of alone.

Sorry I just kind of sick of the whole 'the white race is solely responsible for all the bad shit thats ever happened ever' stuff.

At least as a black person you have the right to be proud of your ethnicity, any sort of discussion of what it means to be white (if anything) has been hijacked by the far right

That being said I have to agree with you 100% about whites having it good, my sister is black and I've sene the bullshit she's been through, getting turned down for jobs and shit and having stuff said to her just because she is the only black face in town pretty much. The thing is, and this is a fucking depressing fact, that if the situations were reversed and blacks were the majority whites would get treated the same becuase most people are too fucking stupid to embrace diversity, you only have to look at places like Birmingham, there are areas where if you aren't asian you are in danger of getting a kicking.

The sooner everyone is the same dull grey colour the better.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Funky Fly First of all, I already said that non-white racists exist too. See the first line of my last post. Second, "Guess Who" is a remake of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" (which by the way, was released in 1967, when it was somewhat more relevant) with the roles reversed.

Yes I am aware of it being a remake, I would argue that is less relevant today though acceptably exoressed attitudes towards minorities by whites was very different then (note ACCEPTABLY, I'm not saying racism doesn't exist just that to exporess it publicly is far less acceptable) whereas minority to white racism is still funny, its still making a joke out of racism whihc doesn;t really strike me as progress

[Funky Fly]

Originally Posted by Pete Actually the slave trade couldn't have happened without the cooperation of Blacks in africa, it was blacks who captured the slaves in africa and handed them over to europeans in the west african ports. There was plenty of discord in africa before the arrival of the europeans and europe's colonisation of america was made possible by the cooperation if native allies. You only have to consider the numbers of europeans vs the number of africans/natives to realise that 'the white man' didn't create the mess you speak of alone. Sorry I just kind of sick of the whole 'the white race is solely responsible for all the bad shit thats ever happened ever' stuff.

Yes, rival tribes sold each other off to be slaves, but the colonial folk were playing a game called divide and conquer. Those tribes were all suckered in the end and after colonizaion ended, to this day you still have regions in Africa where tribes still hate each over it (ie. Rwanda).

Originally Posted by Pete At least as a black person you have the right to be proud of your ethnicity, any sort of discussion of what it means to be white (if anything) has been hijacked by the far right

Yes and no. I am proud to be African, and I am proud to be black (they're not one in the same). That said, there are several things I am not so proud of, concerning blacks and Africans. I'll go into detail someone wants, but I'm about to sleep, so it'll have to be tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Pete That being said I have to agree with you 100% about whites having it good, my sister is black and I've sene the bullshit she's been through, getting turned down for jobs and shit and having stuff said to her just because she is the only black face in town pretty much. The thing is, and this is a fucking depressing fact, that if the situations were reversed and blacks were the majority whites would get treated the same becuase most people are too fucking stupid to embrace diversity, you only have to look at places like Birmingham, there are areas where if you aren't asian you are in danger of getting a kicking. The sooner everyone is the same dull grey colour the better.

Couldn't put it better about the world of grey