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Old 01-22-2007, 02:32 PM   #1
dablackguy
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Some RVD Thoughts
So last night I threw in SummerSlam 2001. One of the matches that really got my attention was the RVD/Jeff Hardy ladder match. I liked this match a lot, lots of creative use of the ladder, some crazy spots and it was like you could feel what both guys were going through to win this match. In my opinion, the match stole the show, showcasing the talents of RVD and Jeff Hardy. It showed me that Jeff Hardy had (has) the potential to be a solid mid to upper card wrestler despite what some (Vince) would perceives as his small size.

On to RVD. I believe it was KK who said in another thread that no one came into WWE hotter than RVD. He was right, at the time he was insanely over and had a moveset as diverse as anyone at the time.

I look at RVD now. Yeah, some people say that he is getting a bad deal from WWE cause he never held the world title. Yeah, he's been held back blah blah blah, but I look at him now, he's a shell of himself. Its not even close to what he was 5 years ago. I'll be honest and say I don't watch ECW much but from what I've seen of the guy he doesn't exactly scream giving full effort anymore. This is a guy who's as athletically gifted as anyone yet looks like he's running through the motions.

Perhaps we should consider that as a reason he never made it to the top of WWE. When he came in, he was the RVD we all knew and loved, but was somewhat reckless and injured a few people in the ring. (None serious) Now we have what appears to be RVD just milking it to the end of his contract. Yes I expect to hear drug referances, but the drug thing was the final nail in the coffin, not necessarily what killed him early on




The question isn't:

Who's Next?
Who's First?
Who's There?

It isn't even Who's Left?

The question is, who gives a shit?
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:50 PM   #2
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I used to be a huge RVD mark. I saw the match for the Hardcore title between RVD and Jeff Hardy live at InVasion, and I think that was the match of the night there, too. I can't really pinpoint where it all went downhill....oh wait, yes I can. When he started teaming with Kane. That was fucking awful. Almost as bad as X-Pac and Kane.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:50 PM   #3
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He probably lost all faith that they were going to push him right then and there.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:55 PM   #4
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RVD is my third favourite wrestler of all time (behind Benoit and Jericho), and right now at this moment I'd love to see him in TNA.

RVD has constantly been over since his debut, yet for some reason has never been a "big name" for the company. We all know that he was the only Alliance member to be cheered. We all know he SHOULD have won the title from Triple H at Unforgiven 2002. Sure, they did finally give him the title and he screwed up... let's not get into that again though.

RVD (in my opinion) should have been a proper main eventer since his debut. None of this lame mid-card tag stuff with Kane, Booker T and Rey Mysterio...
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:06 PM   #5
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I used to mark for X-Pac and Kane...

But yea, RVD gave up. And WWE gave up on him. Its like a player who doesn't want to be on a team. I would say he went downhill sometime in 2002 actually, maybe 2003. Probably around the time he realized he was just gonna be fed to HHH and (like Jericho) be used as a go to for the IC division and never really get a break.

He had the occasional good match here and there when it counted. His ladder match with Christian was great, and the TLC raw match among others. But other than that WWE probably told him to tone it down, coupled with him throwing the towel in. He looked good when he came back this year but after the arrest he obviously was going nowhere and gave back up. I would say TNA would be the best place for RVD if he still has a few matches in him. I'm happy with what hes done in the WWE, I'm glad he made it there and won all the titles and had some great matches. But theres nothing left for him and us there. He still has another title reign and a handful of great fueds left in him before he hangs it up.

On his dvd I have he responds to fans saying "I can still do all those moves I just don't always use them, but I bust them out once in a while" Thats obviously his way of saying, I can't do that shit anymore cuz vince told me not to.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:09 PM   #6
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Where is this RVD DVD you speak of?
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:09 PM   #7
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And please tell me it's called 'The RVDVD'.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:10 PM   #8
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Also, I miss seeing all his cool stuff like the Van-Terminator, which he doesn't do coz Shane O'Mac does it , and that running Van-Terminator he did.

Come to think of it, when was the last time he did a Van-Daminator? I don't recall seeing that in a while.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Where is this RVD DVD you speak of?


Unfortunately this was released a few years ago, so no world title win on it.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:12 PM   #10
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BOOOOOO
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:17 PM   #11
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I did point it out, but so have dozens of other people. So it's not like it's anything spcial I've come up with. For the record.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:31 PM   #12
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What?
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:42 PM   #13
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Let me suggest something crazy here:

RVD got everything he deserved

Now I don't necessarily have this opinion, but I think its worthy of consideration. The guy comes in,and expects to be pushed to the moon, which given his talent level, isn't unreasonable. However, he goes out on the main event stage and if I remember correctly, busts Austin's lip (required stitches) and gave Angle a concussion, something of that sort.

Vince punishes him as a way to show that he's gotta be less reckless.

02 rolls around and he's finally in a main event feud with HHH. A feud we ALL know he should walk out of with the world title. HHH allegedly uses his pull to keep the title despite RVD still being majorly over.

RVD becomes frustrated, give a little less each time after every crappy tag team and feud he's put in. This when you have guys who have been with the company 8,10,12 years and don't so much and come close to the world title.

This continues until 05-06. The idea of bringing back ECW shows some change in him, as we see a different RVD. In 05, though he's hurt he still shows up at ONS, in 06 he wins the then WWE title from John Cena. We see more vintage RVD than recent RVD.

Then the incident with Sabu occurs.

Let's be honest and I don't know the ages of the posters on this board, but for those of you 15-21 you understand that marijuana use is very prevalent in our society. I'm 23 and I get that. But I also realize that if I test positive for marijuana at my job, I'm not demoted, I'm not depushed, my ass is fired, period. So in that respect I feel he's lucky to still be where he is.

Not saying I believe all that, but its all somewhat valid.
Last edited by dablackguy; 01-22-2007 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:49 PM   #14
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How many times have other people fucked up and nothing happened? Macho, Hogan, Nash, even Sabu was given a push after his involvement in the incident. RVD was never pushed properly because he wasn't born and raised in the WWE. Same story with Dreamer, Raven, Taz(z), Awesome, and all the other talent the WWE bought but then wouldn't put over its own. Of course RVD has given up. It's way too late for him to be credible in the WWE.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:54 PM   #15
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I think Sabu was 'pushed' out of necessity. There wasn't really anybody else for The Big Show to face. Look at Sabu now. I think he definitely felt the effects.
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Old 01-22-2007, 04:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy
On to RVD. I believe it was KK who said in another thread that no one came into WWE hotter than RVD.
Chris Jericho would probably argue with you there.
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Old 01-22-2007, 04:28 PM   #17
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Plus, Sabu wasn't representing the company as its champion at the time of getting arrested.
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Old 01-22-2007, 04:30 PM   #18
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RVD giving it his all = Held down

RVD performeing by watered down standards = Wins the WWE Title off of Cena

Hogan, Nash, Cena, Sid, Yoko...how many times does it take before people realise, Vince pushes who he thinks can get him some cash, not who's putting on the best show.
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Old 01-22-2007, 05:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dablackguy
Let me suggest something crazy here:

RVD got everything he deserved

Now I don't necessarily have this opinion, but I think its worthy of consideration. The guy comes in,and expects to be pushed to the moon, which given his talent level, isn't unreasonable. However, he goes out on the main event stage and if I remember correctly, busts Austin's lip (required stitches) and gave Angle a concussion, something of that sort.

Vince punishes him as a way to show that he's gotta be less reckless.

02 rolls around and he's finally in a main event feud with HHH. A feud we ALL know he should walk out of with the world title. HHH allegedly uses his pull to keep the title despite RVD still being majorly over.

RVD becomes frustrated, give a little less each time after every crappy tag team and feud he's put in. This when you have guys who have been with the company 8,10,12 years and don't so much and come close to the world title.

This continues until 05-06. The idea of bringing back ECW shows some change in him, as we see a different RVD. In 05, though he's hurt he still shows up at ONS, in 06 he wins the then WWE title from John Cena. We see more vintage RVD than recent RVD.

Then the incident with Sabu occurs.

Let's be honest and I don't know the ages of the posters on this board, but for those of you 15-21 you understand that marijuana use is very prevalent in our society. I'm 23 and I get that. But I also realize that if I test positive for marijuana at my job, I'm not demoted, I'm not depushed, my ass is fired, period. So in that respect I feel he's lucky to still be where he is.

Not saying I believe all that, but its all somewhat valid.
So...Do we know he was arrogant backstage?

Last I checked, around inVasion, wrestling hadn't yet been entirely watered down. injuries happened. Still do, even with a "safer" wrestling. Ask Bobcore how safe things are. And this happens even with "safe" WWE workers who don't work stiff.

Why would you punish the guy who was bordering on the next Austin, when the other guys didn't get punished?

As for latter day RVD, he did it all to himself, I agree. But early?
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
So...Do we know he was arrogant backstage?
Well you go on the information at the time, which was that he had a chip on his shoulder in the locker room. Dispute the info if you want, the only people that absolutely know for sure are the wrestlers and management. Why do you think I said HHH allegedly used his pull to keep the title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Why would you punish the guy who was bordering on the next Austin, when the other guys didn't get punished?
Good question. Something to do with the fact of being in a triple threat with Austin and Angle, 2 of the top 3 or 4 stars in your company and injuring both of them in the same match. Hell, I remember something about Kurt's wife coming out and bitching that people backstage thought RVD was reckless. Take that for whatever you think its worth. Yeah, he could have been the next top dog, but it doesn't help when you injure the current top dog in your first true showing in the main event scene.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:15 PM   #21
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Again, however, that's selective enforcement.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:25 PM   #22
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Also, I did a search for info on Kurt getting a concussion, and found reports of three concussions that year, none of which were by RVD. I may have missed one, I couldn't remember the PPV, nor do I care enough to search in-depth.

It strikes me, however, that Kurt is seriously injury prone, and that being injured by people like Triple H (Pedigree through a table) should probably be considered as serious.
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:23 AM   #23
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RVD's work, imo, has gotten sloppier and sloppier every passing year.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:12 AM   #24
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RVD sucks now, he matches are the same since he got to WWE and he uses the same lame ass boring moves. Fuck you RVD, go to hell. Piece of shit.
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:40 PM   #25
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I think he lacks the motivation to stay good. I don't completely blame him, but he certainly isn't as good or hungry as he was a couple years ago. Has the WWE used him properly? Yes and no.

Technically, hes accomplished everything he could. He's had stints where he was being used well, and others where it was crap (more often). He was never going to be used as the top guy, its just not him. Like Benoit, I think RVD over the years could have been pushed harder and booked into a greater star, but its not like they've buried them to hell. I agree that they've been misused on occasion and not pushed to the heights they could have. But a guy like Jericho or Christian are another story because they could have been huge but they got screwed, so screaming bloody murder there is completely justified.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:18 PM   #26
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To play devil's advocate about the RVD giving up thing... sure he was disappointed at being depushed in 02/03, but no one should be surprised. Wrestling has never been an ethical sport, so one should never expect the "shoulds" to actually happen.

Or else Bret Hart might still be wrestling.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:00 PM   #27
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And by now, statistically, he might have drawn a dime.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:40 PM   #28
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I don't think anyone can deny he was mis-used after the Invasion angle. He was pretty much consistently having the best match of the night, no matter who he was wrestling.
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