The Kliq is overrated

[CSL]

I wouldn't call the tag division 'reinvigorated'.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by CSL I wouldn't call the tag division 'reinvigorated'.

I wouldn't call Triple H the greatest heel of all-time.

Hyperbole aside, London & Kendrick did get a great run with the belts, and did get some great matches in there. Reinvigorated? Hell no. You need teams for that. But they deserve just as much kudos for doing what they did as Sean Waltman does for jumping around in the mid-nineties.

[Zen v.W.o.]

HHH the greatest heel ever? Surely Piper protests. That guy got stabbed, started riots, and never had to get himself in with the boss's family in order to stay at the top.

HBK oversells, and isnt nearly the wrestler nor stroyteller of say, a Bret Hart. Bret at the age of 42 was still putting on clinics. HBk is in his early 40's now and well, he has had some great chopfests.

Owen was the greatest pure athlete of all time. He learned something, anything with ease. He ushered in the new generation of wrestling.

Hart Foundation..greatest tag team of all time.

Nash inside the ring bombed, unless he got to wrestle the Hitman. He would basically place his oppponent in the corner..dish out a few elbows and knees, and then do his amazing focus a camera lens on the guy thing and then dish out another great elbow. No wonder fans got bored during his title run.
Nash is good on the stick and that's about it.

X-pac was so great that he's got the distinction of being a guy who was willingly let go of his contract to go someplace else.

Hall was decent, I dont have much bad things to say about him.

nWo got big because Hogan turned heel. Without Hogan, it doesnt do the business it did.

IN CONCLUSION:

I RESPECT HBK and HALL...the others I dont even really have much of a problem with...except for Trips, who I think is the most underserving, overrated, untalented sack of crap there has ever been, at least in the main event scene.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o. HHH the greatest heel ever? Surely Piper protests. That guy got stabbed, started riots, and never had to get himself in with the boss's family in order to stay at the top.

Hardly a qualifier. Piper was a heel in an entirely different atmosphere; the end of the time when a lot of the audience were drunk 25-40 something men who didn't take much convincing to believe that wrestling was real. HHH had to get himself over as a heel in a time where you had to be more than loud and obnoxious to be a great heel, and a time when if you weren't careful, you might get cheered.

HBK oversells, and isnt nearly the wrestler nor stroyteller of say, a Bret Hart. Bret at the age of 42 was still putting on clinics. HBk is in his early 40's now and well, he has had some great chopfests.

Hart a better storyteller than Michaels... no. Hart tells one story regardless of the circumstances: "I'm the greatest ever and I'm a crybaby when I lose." And that's just kayfabe. Clinics do not good storytelling make, and if you have a problem with overselling, you must have a problem with Ric Flair.

Owen was the greatest pure athlete of all time. He learned something, anything with ease. He ushered in the new generation of wrestling.

There is a whole thread about Owen's overratedness. He was a part of something big, but he ushered in nothing.

Hart Foundation..greatest tag team of all time.

Pheh. If Bret's career had ended when the Foundation did, he would be largely forgettable as a guy who wore pink.

Nash inside the ring bombed, unless he got to wrestle the Hitman. He would basically place his oppponent in the corner..dish out a few elbows and knees, and then do his amazing focus a camera lens on the guy thing and then dish out another great elbow. No wonder fans got bored during his title run. Nash is good on the stick and that's about it.

Nash's title run was boring because the WWF was boring at the time. He won the title out of the blue, had no good feuds and no real competition. But the man moves with purpose in the ring and is the best big man champion WWF had for a long time.

X-pac was so great that he's got the distinction of being a guy who was willingly let go of his contract to go someplace else.

Waltman was excellent in the role of a runty little sidekick, either as a greasy little punk or a greasy little prankster. As soon as he tried to get over without his big brothers, he became annoying and useless.

Hall was decent, I dont have much bad things to say about him.

The general opinion of Hall seems to be that he's good, and could have been great if he could only have gotten over his personal problems. Very sad, but in this case I think everyone agrees.

nWo got big because Hogan turned heel. Without Hogan, it doesnt do the business it did.

By the same principle though, it doesn't do the business without Hall and Nash. I'm sick of this "Hogan made the nWo" bullshit; it was what it was because of EVERYONE involved at the top; without Hall and Nash and the Kliq attitude they brought with them, nWo ends up being a failed Hogan heel turn.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Originally Posted by DarthTedious Hardly a qualifier. Piper was a heel in an entirely different atmosphere; the end of the time when a lot of the audience were drunk 25-40 something men who didn't take much convincing to believe that wrestling was real. HHH had to get himself over as a heel in a time where you had to be more than loud and obnoxious to be a great heel, and a time when if you weren't careful, you might get cheered. Hart a better storyteller than Michaels... no. Hart tells one story regardless of the circumstances: "I'm the greatest ever and I'm a crybaby when I lose." And that's just kayfabe. Clinics do not good storytelling make, and if you have a problem with overselling, you must have a problem with Ric Flair. There is a whole thread about Owen's overratedness. He was a part of something big, but he ushered in nothing. Pheh. If Bret's career had ended when the Foundation did, he would be largely forgettable as a guy who wore pink. Nash's title run was boring because the WWF was boring at the time. He won the title out of the blue, had no good feuds and no real competition. But the man moves with purpose in the ring and is the best big man champion WWF had for a long time. Waltman was excellent in the role of a runty little sidekick, either as a greasy little punk or a greasy little prankster. As soon as he tried to get over without his big brothers, he became annoying and useless. The general opinion of Hall seems to be that he's good, and could have been great if he could only have gotten over his personal problems. Very sad, but in this case I think everyone agrees. By the same principle though, it doesn't do the business without Hall and Nash. I'm sick of this "Hogan made the nWo" bullshit; it was what it was because of EVERYONE involved at the top; without Hall and Nash and the Kliq attitude they brought with them, nWo ends up being a failed Hogan heel turn.

I had to stop when I got to the point where you wrote Piper was hardly a qualifier, and then even tried convincing me HHH was a better heel than him.

After getting that out of the way, all you need to do is watch HBK...his matches are just less realistic than a guy like Brets...HBK jumps around, exposing the business at times...yeah that's showmanship, but I prefer the guys that get down with it..that take it to you..not only that but HBK gives the same half ass chops to guys like the fucking big show, as he would to Rey Mysterio...Hart tries to take it to guys of various sizes and stregths differently, as would most smart wrestlers...and he's HBK having fucking chopfests with giants. His psychology has always been a bit overrated.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o. I had to stop when I got to the point where you wrote Piper was hardly a qualifier, and then even tried convincing me HHH was a better heel than him.

You know, Kliq fan though I may be, I never thought I'd be sticking up for HHH like this. Frankly, I'm sick of all this "Piper=Best Heel Ever" nonsense. What I meant about qualifiers was that you can't say Piper was such a great heel because he started riots and got stabbed. Piper was a heel in the time when all you needed to do to be one was to be loud, obnoxious, and insulting, and he was the most loud, obnoxious, and insulting of them all. The fans in HHH's day all understand that the man is giving an act. I don't even buy Piper as the best heel of the 80s; I'd be far more inclined to give that distinction to Ted Dibiase.