Not sure where this goes... (Creative writing)

[gatoconbotas]

It's good.

I'd make a few minor changes -- unless you have a plan for the Sinn name to mean something, I'd get rid of it. It doesn't sound natural.

Speaking of natural, add some things for realism. When the kids where walking to the school, say they were trudging down "Insert Street Name Here" Don't put Main St. or anything like that, make it more realistic. Maybe name it the street you grew up on?

The next thing -- which is huge, imo, because it is the #1 complaint from Editors and Publishers alike:
Show, don't tell.

It sounds easy but it is hard.
Instead of telling me the guy is a regular, typical bum, show it. Use some of that concrete language that appeals to the senses: Did he smell? What color were his teeth, if he had any? What raggy clothes was he wearing? Things like that to show me that he's a bum, not tell me.

Same thing with Ben Sinn. Show me he's drunk at the table, don't tell me. It goes rather well after the beatings, but you tell me beforehand that he's drunk. Say he stumbled to the table, or after he spoke, instead of saying "he said" use "he slurred."

Show me that the school isn't Harvard. Say that windows are busted, books are 20+ years old, the water doesn't work in all the bathrooms, some random details like that.

Try to describe things more. Use concreate language:
Instead of "meatloaf made from scratch" you could use something like"
"Jennifer slaved over the heated, dirt-covered oven mixing hamburger and (whatelse goes into meatloaf?) until a warm, meaty aroma filled the air as the young children sat down and Benjamin stumbled towards the table.

My final thing -- and my biggest worry, is that you have the story in your head.

A plotline? Cool. You can have one to start out with, but don't have it set in stone. All you're going to do is limit yourself by having the story pre-planned. You have a great premise here, just let your fingers type and let your story develop from there.

I've met quite a few writers in my life, and a common question from many readers is "Why did you kill so-and-so? Why did the story end that way?"

The honest answer is a) they had to or b)they don't know. Because once they get started, the story should develop around the characters, not the characters around the story. The less you know about your story, the better it will be in the long run.

Keep us informed--looks like a good start!

[Fryza]

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas It's good.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas I'd make a few minor changes -- unless you have a plan for the Sinn name to mean something, I'd get rid of it. It doesn't sound natural.

Actually, the name is an important part (hint, the title). 'Sinn' is also a common last name (well, not common. There is a good sized family in my town with said name). It's a set-up for the story really.

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas Speaking of natural, add some things for realism. When the kids where walking to the school, say they were trudging down "Insert Street Name Here" Don't put Main St. or anything like that, make it more realistic. Maybe name it the street you grew up on?

I do like the realism, and I do include more of it in the second part. While I do make up things, I research New York and find locations and places and try to place things in a real area. I'll see if I can't add more to that.

Also, only way I'd add Main St. (unless I already did...) is if they were actually on 'Main St.'

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas The next thing -- which is huge, imo, because it is the #1 complaint from Editors and Publishers alike: Show, don't tell. It sounds easy but it is hard. Instead of telling me the guy is a regular, typical bum, show it. Use some of that concrete language that appeals to the senses: Did he smell? What color were his teeth, if he had any? What raggy clothes was he wearing? Things like that to show me that he's a bum, not tell me.

I love description, and believe it is one of the most important things in writing, however, I don't like to take TOO long and take up major space with description (a la Tolkien). I love to leave a little to the imagination, but I will probably redo a lot to this, so don't put it past me to add more to everything.

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas Same thing with Ben Sinn. Show me he's drunk at the table, don't tell me. It goes rather well after the beatings, but you tell me beforehand that he's drunk. Say he stumbled to the table, or after he spoke, instead of saying "he said" use "he slurred." Show me that the school isn't Harvard. Say that windows are busted, books are 20+ years old, the water doesn't work in all the bathrooms, some random details like that. Try to describe things more. Use concreate language: Instead of "meatloaf made from scratch" you could use something like" "Jennifer slaved over the heated, dirt-covered oven mixing hamburger and (whatelse goes into meatloaf?) until a warm, meaty aroma filled the air as the young children sat down and Benjamin stumbled towards the table.

Goes to what my friend called 'The Cake'. It's a chocolate cake with Mountain Dew, sprinkled with M & Ms, then covered in chocolate sauce, then layered with Gummy Bears- Thus becoming the Diabetics' worst nightmare.

I don't want to use too much description, but I do understand where you are coming from, and this is the first time ANYONE has ever pointed something like this out to me. I'll go through this later on when I have a free day and alter thing to do this.

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas My final thing -- and my biggest worry, is that you have the story in your head. A plotline? Cool. You can have one to start out with, but don't have it set in stone. All you're going to do is limit yourself by having the story pre-planned. You have a great premise here, just let your fingers type and let your story develop from there.

I have the vague outline of what I want to do, how to set it up, what will go down, but I don't make any of it a complete fact. I have changed a LOT of things, including replacing things, subtracting them completely, etc etc. I've had to fix it to stay within a decent timeline to the other events, or the words came off campy.

I never fully set the story in stone, but only try to work in the things I want to have set out. From there, I'll try every angle to get it to work. It took me a full day and three different changes just to make the intro half decent, and it could still be better.

Originally Posted by gatoconbotas I've met quite a few writers in my life, and a common question from many readers is "Why did you kill so-and-so? Why did the story end that way?" The honest answer is a) they had to or b)they don't know. Because once they get started, the story should develop around the characters, not the characters around the story. The less you know about your story, the better it will be in the long run. Keep us informed--looks like a good start!

Character creation and development, to me, is the most important thing with movies, video games, comics, books, etc etc. You can have the world's greatest story, with the greatest descriptions and words ANYONE can understand, but if your characters are 2-D, hard to empathsize with, and can't be related to, you've lost focus.

I have the titular character that the story revolves around, and the stories are brought by his interactions with others and vice versa, not the stories interacting with him. Any time someone is killed off, I have a reason.

Thank you so much for reading through this and give one Hell of a go through. That makes me very ecstatic. I'll take this back to the writing board to fix it up a bit, and try to fix the first rough draft of the second part.

[gatoconbotas]

Actually, the name is an important part (hint, the title). 'Sinn' is also a common last name (well, not common. There is a good sized family in my town with said name). It's a set-up for the story really.

I figured as much with that name, that it'd be for the story, but I just wanted to check

I love description, and believe it is one of the most important things in writing, however, I don't like to take TOO long and take up major space with description (a la Tolkien). I love to leave a little to the imagination, but I will probably redo a lot to this, so don't put it past me to add more to everything.

I'm exactly the same way. I think too much description can take away from the story, but there has to be "padding" on the story.

Goes to what my friend called 'The Cake'. It's a chocolate cake with Mountain Dew, sprinkled with M & Ms, then covered in chocolate sauce, then layered with Gummy Bears- Thus becoming the Diabetics' worst nightmare. I don't want to use too much description, but I do understand where you are coming from, and this is the first time ANYONE has ever pointed something like this out to me. I'll go through this later on when I have a free day and alter thing to do this.

A way to do it without a lot of description is to have those traits show through thier actions and the way they speak. With Ben, the way that he speaks, the words he uses, and even the actions he takes against his son show that he has a lot of problems. In my opinion, you don't want to flat out say "he's an asshole" and show it. The narrator, since in third person, should be passive and let the characters speak for themselves, so to speak.

I have the vague outline of what I want to do, how to set it up, what will go down, but I don't make any of it a complete fact. I have changed a LOT of things, including replacing things, subtracting them completely, etc etc. I've had to fix it to stay within a decent timeline to the other events, or the words came off campy. I never fully set the story in stone, but only try to work in the things I want to have set out. From there, I'll try every angle to get it to work. It took me a full day and three different changes just to make the intro half decent, and it could still be better.

That's good. There's never one draft of a story and "that's it." Having an outline is great, and the fact that you've already changed things is giving yourself an open mind when it comes to writing it.

Character creation and development, to me, is the most important thing with movies, video games, comics, books, etc etc. You can have the world's greatest story, with the greatest descriptions and words ANYONE can understand, but if your characters are 2-D, hard to empathsize with, and can't be related to, you've lost focus. I have the titular character that the story revolves around, and the stories are brought by his interactions with others and vice versa, not the stories interacting with him. Any time someone is killed off, I have a reason.

The fact you realize, appreciate, and don't want some of those things is the greatest aspect of this new series you're writing.
Most authors never get or understand that.

One other thing I thought of, and this is mainly for Ben Sinn...is make sure that he's not just a dispicable character. Think of him as a real person; make sure something in his past, his religion, or something motivates him to act the way he does. Every character has to have a motive for thier actions.

There are very few people in this world that are born assholes. Something happened to them to change them and make them an asshole. Try to keep that in mind a bit when continuing with the story.

I love the Ben character thus far, but I can see where it would be easy to take him over the line and make him a characture instead of a character, you know what I mean?

I also apologize for any massive speling errors on here, i'm really drugged up and am in a hurry to go to work. Sorry!