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Old 11-30-2007, 10:39 PM   #521
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just read Barry Bonds took a piss. crap, I hope this doesn't mean his coming to the Yankees
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:57 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Ugh. Just read that Hughes has been offered by the Yanks. I don't really understand it at all. Why they would include him when Boston hasn't offered up Buchholz or Ellsbury is beyond me. I understand he's the best pitcher in baseball but still. It doesn't seem like the Twins have much choice if the offers remain at what they were.
I think the Yanks will pay more for him then the Sox, the difference is I think the Sox have more to deal with...

For the Yanks it's pretty simple, if the Sox get Santana and lock him up 5years, the Yanks will have little chance at a division title for the next 2-3years... I say 2-3, because Tek getting old, Mannys deal coming up, Papi getting older etc... so those will be question marks down the road, but the Sox pitching staff the next 5 years from starter to closer will be set w/ the exception of maybe some long relief or specialists

The sox wont part with Ellsbury, or if they do I'd be shocked.

But, the deal they had on the table last I heard was pretty impressive... Lester, their top Pitching prospect, top SS prospect and coco (great defense, avg bat and NOT a leadoff hitter).

I could see the sox upping the deal...

that being said, the Yanks are more desperate for him then the Sox are... plus, (and I'm asking you NYY guys cause I don't know) if they open the new stadium, and have little chance of a division title for 2-3years will that effect ticket sales?
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:06 PM   #523
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I hate to see the Red Sox trade away another homegrown SS, seeing how one they traded away is pretty sick now plus the last one they actually kept for a while wasn't so bad himself
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:22 PM   #524
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Just doesn't look right...

Now that the trade has settled in for a solid 9 hours...I mean, at first I guess I was too harsh. Ryan Church is a solid player...hit more doubles than anyone on the Mets and probably could hit around 20 or so home runs. And Brian Schneider's a damn good defensive catcher.

But Milledge? Is Johnny Estrada really that bad? Surely there must have been a solid defensive catcher in the FA market if that was the concern?

Hell if this deal was to any team other than an NL East one it wouldn't seem as bad...I just can't believe Milledge fell this far off the map in the eyes of other GMs. I was looking forward to him playing a full year in New York and now I bet he'll torch us every time we play Washington.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:23 AM   #525
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Bartolo Colon is gonna hit the FA Market

Given their history, I'm almost willing to bet Colon gets a 1-year deal with a performance option or something from the Mets. He'd be a great low-risk, high-reward pickup as a #5 starter...but if Omar picks up Colon and Livan and decides thats enough he'll be shitcanning 2008.
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:11 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sTiMa34 View Post
I hate to see the Red Sox trade away another homegrown SS, seeing how one they traded away is pretty sick now plus the last one they actually kept for a while wasn't so bad himself
I'll take Beckett and Lowell over Ramirez...

that and with the sox being pretty above average at most positions, having a journman SS that is a good fielder is fine with me.

That being said, their reporting NYY has added hughes to the deal... be funny if the Red Sox push it to try and make the yankees offer chamberlin then back away and go after Haren and get him for less then Santatna would cost and ok the sox he'd be a #2 or #3 pitcher which I'd be fine with.

I mean...

Beckett
Haren
Dice-K
Schilling
Wakefield or Lester or Buckholtz.. (depending on who'se left after the trade).
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:22 PM   #527
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Yeah the general consensus is that whoever loses out on the Santana sweepstakes is gonna get Haren. That's why Beane is waiting to trade until after Santana is traded.

Yankee fans are also pretty pathetic. On their message boards, they went from all wanting Santana to calling him "overrated" after Hughes has been added. Much like how they all called A-Rod "overrated" when he opted out only to rejoice saying "YAY we got the best player in the league back!!!" when he came crawling back for $305 million
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Old 12-01-2007, 01:29 PM   #528
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LOL well at least the Nationals will not be full of players that are completely boring to me now, maybe I'll actually have something to root for at a Nats game
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:18 PM   #529
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Milledge, 22, reportedly was offered with Aaron Heilman and Phillip Humber to the Orioles in a proposal that was rejected. Including Milledge did not make it more desirable to Baltimore, but one baseball official said, "You put Church or Gomez in place of Milledge in an offer and it might be a more attractive offer."

-----

Church, Heilman, and Humber for Bedard? Where the fuck do I sign?
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:28 PM   #530
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Yeah that would be a sick deal. Bedard will destroy the NL, wowwww
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:46 PM   #531
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Kaz Matsui is dead to me
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:47 PM   #532
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uh...where in that did it say it was for bedard? just saying
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Old 12-01-2007, 05:00 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AssMan View Post
uh...where in that did it say it was for bedard? just saying
Just took a clippit out of the article I was reading, it was for Bedard.

Hell...I'd go as far as trading Gomez, Heilman, and two of Pelfrey/Humber/Mulvey to grab Bedard. The Mets have like 3 of the first 35 or so draft picks this year so they can re-stock pitching.
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Old 12-01-2007, 05:05 PM   #534
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Quote:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.

He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here.
Hughes AND Kennedy? No. Please no.

Quote:
Sources told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal that the Padres and Randy Wolf are close to agreeing to a one-year deal.
Great place for Wolf to pitch.

Quote:
According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Cardinals and Brewers are discussing a Scott Rolen trade, but they haven't decided how much money St. Louis will pick up or what players the Cards will get in return.

It appears safe to assume that Chris Capuano would be in the deal. The Brewers shouldn't need to give up much more talent in return for Rolen, assuming that they're willing to pay the majority of the $36 million the third baseman is owed for the next three years. If Rolen is acquired, Ryan Braun would move to left field, leaving Matt LaPorta wondering about his future role with the team
That would be a great deal for both sides.
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Old 12-01-2007, 05:13 PM   #535
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Wow, the Twins are just owning the Yankees in these discussions. First they give him an ultimatum that if they don't include Hughes, Santana will go to Boston. Who knows if that was true or not. Now they are pulling Kennedy away too? If that deal goes through the Yankees are the biggest idiots ever. The best deal out there was Lester, Crisp and the other two guys and the Yankees are gonna offer Hughes (which trumps that offer) and then throw in Kennedy? The Yankees are getting played for fools and I'd honestly rather not get Santana if this is the cost. Its not like there is a huge market for Johan, a select few teams can even afford him.
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Old 12-01-2007, 05:17 PM   #536
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:08 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippord View Post
Kaz Matsui is dead to me
I agree. He's fool if he's taking that Astros deal after the run the Rockies just had.

Besides the Yankees and Red Sox in the Santana sweepstakes, Mariners and Dodgers are also slightly involved. The Twins want Clayton Kershaw and Andre Etheir along with either James Loney or Jonathan Broxton from the Dodgers. Mariners only got Adam Jones to offer.

Insanity must run in Steinbrenner family. I'm really spooked if this goes through now.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:04 PM   #538
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Quote:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III essentially admitted he was guessing when he reported the Yankees were offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy to the Twins for Johan Santana.

Neal apparently had no inside info here, so there's still no reason to think the Yankees are willing to part with both Hughes and Kennedy. FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal said this afternoon that the Twins are targeting right-hander Alan Horne or defensive-minded shortstop Alberto Gonzalez as the third player along with Hughes and Cabrera. In his latest blog, ESPN's Peter Gammons seems to think it's almost a given that the trade will be completed.
Well, at least we're not losing both of them. I'm fine with dumping Horne or Gonzalez, preferably Gonzalez. I'm really going to miss Hughes
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:15 PM   #539
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Rumor has it the Dodgers are willing to take the package they were gonna offer Santana, and send it to the O's for Bedard.

---

Fuck. Guess the Mets gotta somehow get Haren or Blanton cause there's no way they can compete with the Dodgers' offer.

On top of that, I'm reading the Mets offered Gomez, Heilman, Humber, and an additional prospect for Bedard and they were rejected instantly.
Last edited by Evil Vito; 12-01-2007 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:49 PM   #540
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WHAT. I DO NOT want to lose Loney, or Broxton.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:46 AM   #541
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all these rumors are like half true/half false. there's way too much back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. don't believe half this crap. it's almost as bad as wrestling rumors sometimes.
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:06 AM   #542
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Your 'round the clock Johan Santana update.

The Red Sox are all but willing to put in Jacoby Ellsbury. However, they want something extra to come over with Santana. The big name flying around is Joe Nathan.

On the Yankees front. Cabrera and Hughes are pretty much locked in. It's all held up due to the third guy. Twins want either Austin Jackson or Alan Horne. Yankees are holding on that. Also, the Yanks might put a deadline on the deal. Time runs out or if the deal is rejected, they're gonna go hard after Dan Haren.
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Old 12-02-2007, 11:55 AM   #543
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Damn, the Mets didn't offer arbitration to Lo Duca...meaning we could have had another pick. I guess they didn't do it because they were afraid he'd accept the offer and force himself back on the team...but I doubt he would do that especially since there's no room for him.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:15 PM   #544
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Joe Nathan would be wasted talent on the Red Sox.
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:16 PM   #545
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I'm pretty stunned the Sox are willing to deal Elsbury. I mean, you won a championship. He became a fan favorite and the guy has amazing game.
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:26 PM   #546
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But who really kows if Elsbury will be the real deal in a full season. I like the guy a lot too. In fact he made me root for the RSox in the WS.
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:44 PM   #547
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I just want Johan to get traded already because a deal for Haren or Bedard won't happen until after
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:30 PM   #548
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I hate Jacoby Ellsbury

bastard and his domination of Rockies pitching
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:28 PM   #549
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I'd rather keep Ellsbury.

Letting other teams duke it out for Santana is sounding more appealing to me right now. Latest trade idea I heard for the Sox is Crisp, Lester, and Lowrie for Dan Haren. Haren is under contract for another 3 seasons, so they don't have to worry about a contract extension like they would with Santana. Also, it seems like Beckett would want a huge contract extension like Santana's if we signed him.

So next year's rotation would look like this

Beckett
Haren
Dice-K
Schilling
Wakefield or Buchholz
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:36 PM   #550
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Either way it is going to be a fucking slugfest this year between the Yankees and Sox.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:52 PM   #551
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Everyone says the loser of the Santana sweepstakes (between the Sox and Yanks) is gonna grab Haren. But I dunno, if the Red Sox get Santana I think the Yanks might stand pat with what they've got and focus on grabbing an arm for the bulllpen.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:58 PM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP View Post
I'd rather keep Ellsbury.

Letting other teams duke it out for Santana is sounding more appealing to me right now. Latest trade idea I heard for the Sox is Crisp, Lester, and Lowrie for Dan Haren. Haren is under contract for another 3 seasons, so they don't have to worry about a contract extension like they would with Santana. Also, it seems like Beckett would want a huge contract extension like Santana's if we signed him.

So next year's rotation would look like this

Beckett
Haren
Dice-K
Schilling
Wakefield or Buchholz
Yeah, but the thing with other teams fighting over Santana is that the Yankees are the biggest players to land him besides the Sox. If either the Sox or Yankees drop out of the running then Minnesota loses a ton of leverage with the other team. And I would imagine that would cause a little trouble with Beckett. Beckett signed a cheap extension with the Sox before (for what, 10-11 million a year I think) and then Santana comes in and would be making 20-25 million a year.
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:01 PM   #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 View Post
Everyone says the loser of the Santana sweepstakes (between the Sox and Yanks) is gonna grab Haren. But I dunno, if the Red Sox get Santana I think the Yanks might stand pat with what they've got and focus on grabbing an arm for the bulllpen.
Yeah, I definitely agree. If it ends up with the Sox grabbing him then it pretty much is letting the young guys do their thing. And pray like hell that Pettitte decides to come back for one more year. With Santana it seems to be just the Yankees and Red Sox really involved (from all reports anyway). With Haren there will be a ton of teams and it wouldn't surprise me if Beane wants more for Haren then Minnesota wanted for Santana.
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:49 PM   #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Yeah, I definitely agree. If it ends up with the Sox grabbing him then it pretty much is letting the young guys do their thing. And pray like hell that Pettitte decides to come back for one more year. With Santana it seems to be just the Yankees and Red Sox really involved (from all reports anyway). With Haren there will be a ton of teams and it wouldn't surprise me if Beane wants more for Haren then Minnesota wanted for Santana.
Yeah that's what I'm hearing also...and its what makes me a little doubtful that the Mets are gonna land Haren or Bedard. If the Sox do get Santana, and the Yanks elect to stand pat...the futures of Haren and Bedard are basically gonna be decided by the two LA teams who are duking it out for Miguel Cabrera (who is probably gonna cost 4 top prospects).

If the Angels get Cabrera, the Dodgers easily have the most to offer for a Haren or Bedard and can take their pick. But if the Dodgers get Cabrera, the Angels still need a bat more than they need pitching and would probably try to get Tejada or something. Plus after that you have to worry about the D-Backs wanting to get involved or the O's successfully locking Bedard up to an extension.
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:19 PM   #555
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Ok gentlemen. We may have a final decision tomorrow.

The Latest.

Alan Horne and Austin Jackson are now untouchables on the Yankees. Along with Ian Kennedy, Jose Tabata, and Dellin Betances. Brian Cashman has given Twins GM Bill Smith a list of players to chose as the third guy.

Buster Olney reports that the Red Sox have included Jacoby Ellsbury in the deal, but pulled out Jon Lester.

Ken Rosenthal reports Johan Santana won't waive his no-trade clause during the season.

And finally, the Yanks set a deadline of the end of the day on Monday.
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Old 12-02-2007, 11:08 PM   #556
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I like that the Yankees are supposedly drawing a line somewhere but it doesn't make much sense. If the Yankees stick to their word the only player is pretty much Boston.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:45 AM   #557
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I don't think anyone buys that deadline. Remember when we said we wouldn't negotiate with A-Rod if he opted out?
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:00 AM   #558
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Yeah I think they are trying to scare the Twins because if the Yankees really did back off then other teams won't have to give up as much
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:46 AM   #559
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LOL man. Santana is really screwing the Twins here. Apparently he has said he won't waive his no trade clause during next season if the Twins try to trade him then. Pretty much meaning its trade him now or let him leave after next year and get a couple draft picks. Then he came out and said he'd only waive his no-trade to Boston and NY this offseason. That doesn't really change the main runners for him but it eliminates every other team.

Honestly, if I was the Yankees or Sox I would take Ellsbury and Hughes off the table. Go back to the lesser offers they were gonna give before and Minnesota would have no choice but to take one. Unless they want him to just walk next year and get nothing at all.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:01 AM   #560
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Honestly if I were the Twins I'd keep Johan. They have a chance to compete this year. And if they are godawful come July 31 I wouldn't be shocked if he has a change of heart. And they wouldn't really be getting "nothing" for him...I wouldn't underestimate the value of draft picks.

The plus side for the Mets is that Johan hitting free agency means we've got a chance to got him for 2009 with Delgado, Pedro, El Duque, Alou, and others coming off the payroll. Doesn't help their chances any for landing someone for 2008 though.

----

In other news, Peavy is close to an extension that would keep him in San Diego through 2012.
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