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Old 12-05-2007, 10:36 AM   #641
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if that report is true, then the Yankees are pretty stupid for not doing that. Have they looked at thier weakest spot lately. Did they see the post season? They need pitching. Who knows how long Petttie will hold up. Wang still hasn't proven himself to be a #1 guy and no offense to Phil and Ian, but they are not proven in the majors yet. Getting Santana would of put some comfort into that staff.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:46 AM   #642
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The Tigers are basically the Marlins right now.

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis
Edgar Renteria
Gary Sheffield
Ivan Rodriguez
managed byyyyyyyyyy Jim Leyland
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:49 AM   #643
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Here's how I rank the top AL teams as of now:
Boston
Detroit
New York
Los Angeles
Cleveland

Detroit is just behind Boston because their bullpen isn't anywhere near as good. The Yanks are missing a true ace and the pen has questions. The Angels would have probably been second if they got Cabrera. Cleveland hasn't done anything that substantial to improve the team outside of grabbing some bullpen arms so they're the odd team out at this point.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:21 AM   #644
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Wow, I can't believe those two guys held up a Santana trade. Cashman better be right in Hughes or else this is was a very stupid thing to do. I wasn't for trading Hughes at first but I kind of didn't mind either way it ended. We either got Santana or kept Hughes/Cabrera. It doesn't seem like either team is too enamored with the price tag Santana will bring. I still think he's gonna end up in Boston though.
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:01 PM   #645
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Cashman blew a golden opportunity there. The only good for the Yankees that comes out of that is now the price for Santana could be higher for the Red Sox.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:15 PM   #646
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Apparently it had something to do with the money (or maybe he just didn't want to deal Hughes in the first place). I can kind of understand that since the payroll is almost at 200M already for next season. But after next season we lose around 80M in payroll and garbage contracts.

Giambi - 21
Pavano - 10
Mussina - 11
Farnsworth - 5.5

And then possibly Abreu at 16 million and Pettitte at 16 million. So pretty much all it would do is replace Giambi's terrible contract. I dunno, Cashman says its about the money but I think it had more to do with dealing Hughes. He better hope Hughes turns into something really special for us.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:18 PM   #647
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Now the Twins are speaking to other teams who were previously viewed as "out of it", including the Mets

I dunno...maybe I just don't know much about the backend guys the Sox are offering but I'm not sure how Ryan Church, Carlos Gomez, Aaron Heilman and Mike Pelfrey are not on par with Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie.

I honestly think after all this the Twins are just gonna hold onto Johan and go for it in '08 if they don't feel they are getting enough in return.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:25 PM   #648
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The Twins would be stupid to try and go for it in 2008, especially after Cabrera/Willis just went to the Tigers. I could see them doing that though, it just doesn't make much sense unless they try to resign him.
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:44 PM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG View Post
So, Marlins dealt Cabrera and Willis to the Tigers, who gave up WAY too much.

Also, I guess the O's are looking for a Santana-like package for Bedard from the Dodgers. FUCK THAT. We are so loaded with young talent.
We did give up a lot but it was not too much. Let me lay it down for you.

Andrew Miller, whereas he is a good pitcher, was going to be a 3 at best in Detroit. Because of the fact that you have Verlander and Bonderman, plus you have Porcello waiting in the wings now that they signed him. Cameron Maybin is a great prospect but the fact is the Tigers are still loaded in the OF without him. He was made to be a centerfielder, but that position will never be availble because of Curtis Granderson. You could say you could move him over to RF when Magglio leaves but the problem is that the casual fan sees that that move could happen. The Detroit Tiger fan sees that that move cannot happen because of what happened when Maybin played Left field this year. His play was shaky at best, making costly errors in games where the Tigers should have won. The other 4 prospects that the Tigers sent out were good, but the team wants to win now. And to gain Cabrerra and Willis, two proven guys, two guys with post season experience and World Series rings, you have to take them at whatever cost. Willis solidifies your bullpen and with the acquisition of Cabrerra, it shifts Inge out of town. And I would much rather have Cabrerra and his power at 3rd then a great defensive 3rd baseman, but a .240 hitter in Inge. It makes sense all around.
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:02 PM   #650
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Someone just told me that the Marlins payroll is as much is what the Yankees pay A-Rod per week. lol, is that true?
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:32 PM   #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor View Post
The Tigers are basically the Marlins right now.

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis
Edgar Renteria
Gary Sheffield
Ivan Rodriguez
managed byyyyyyyyyy Jim Leyland
+ Todd Jones

This might have something to do with the fact that Detroit's President/CEO/GM Dave Dombrowski used to be the President/GM of the Florida Marlins. He's just doing all the things he learned how to do except now he has a budget.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:37 PM   #652
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Quote:
According to ESPN's Peter Gammons, there's a sense that the Twins will hold on to Johan Santana for now.

That's been the general feeling all morning. The least they could do is come out and say they've rejected Boston's proposal, providing some sort of conclusion to the current round of talks. This isn't something that's going to go away until Santana is eventually dealt or agrees to a contract extension with the Twins. If anything, the Twins have even more incentive to move him than they did yesterday, as the Miguel Cabrera addition in Detroit would seem to give them less of a chance of making the postseason next year.
Just stay away from Boston plzzzzz
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:54 PM   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
Someone just told me that the Marlins payroll is as much is what the Yankees pay A-Rod per week. lol, is that true?
Week? No

Year, yes. Tehy are around 28 million, maybe less now with the trade
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Old 12-05-2007, 06:12 PM   #654
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I like how Hank Steinbrenner has already taken over the role of trying to be a hard ass, but when in reality he just looks like an idiot (much like his father has for the last few decades)
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:46 PM   #655
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The Mets and the Twins are not only talking...but they are discussing trades that do NOT involve trading Reyes.

That would fucking own, but I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic because I kinda think they are just using the Mets to get leverage and trying to get the Red Sox or Yankees to give up more.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:50 PM   #656
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Holy shit at this.

Big 3 way trade rumored.

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey to A's
Mets send Hector Pellot to Twins
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets
Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:51 PM   #657
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Also. Blue Jays and Paul Lo Duca might be close on a deal.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:56 PM   #658
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What the hell are The Mets gonna do with Dan Johnson?
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:13 PM   #659
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I've heard that rumor posted, no way it'll happen. They have nothing to do with Johnson, and are simply not trading Reyes. Also, don't really see what the Twins would do with Haren other than trade him right off as well.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:50 PM   #660
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142696

Guillen is on that HGH
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:05 PM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockShot View Post
Also. Blue Jays and Paul Lo Duca might be close on a deal.
Been a big fan of Greg Zaun's hard nose play, truly a class act character guy. But.
But he can't throw out base runners nor can hit with much power. I could live with less production if he was a better defensive catcher, but he's not. I would be happy for the Jays/sad for him, but I think it's high time.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:07 PM   #662
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Jose Guillen is a bit of a head case. I think the guy's talented enough, he just needs to keep his head on straight.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:07 PM   #663
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Paul Lo Duca is the man, you want him on your team
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:09 PM   #664
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...Also he signed a 3 year 36 mill deal with the Royals. Not bad... 12 mill a year for a guy noone seems to want. M's could have retained him with a team option @ 9 mill
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:09 PM   #665
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I like the cut of your jib
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:10 PM   #666
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Longest post ever in tpww history right there?
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:13 PM   #667
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What the H?
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:14 PM   #668
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That was 23 posts at once. I deleted 22 of them
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:15 PM   #669
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You are a goddamn prince
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:16 PM   #670
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Anyone else see the story about how personal awards can't be triggers for salary bonuses starting in 2013? Stuff like MVP, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year but I guess World Series MVP can still be one. I think he has to do with who votes on them, I only caught the story real quick.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:18 PM   #671
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SNY reporting the Mets may, believe it or not, be at the top of the Johan stakes. This is surreal.

However, I'm hearing they want Oliver Perez. I mean from a Mets standpoint it'd kinda suck because they'd still have the same 2 spots to fill in the rotation...but obviously Johan > Ollie. But why would the Twins even want Perez? He can be a FA after 2008 and his agent works for Scott Boras.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:27 PM   #672
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Perez is the most frustrating pitcher ever OMG. Normal game is like 7 BB 7 K then he throws in some 8 inning 4 hit 14 K 1 ER game followed by him giving up 6 runs on 9 walks the next start.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:38 PM   #673
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Yeah. Obviously, if he's required to get Santana, you gotta do it. Still find it hard to believe tho that the Twins would ask for Perez and not Maine or something (which, call me crazy, I'm not sure I'd trade Maine AND a ton of prospects for Johan...I really love Maine)
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:43 PM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockShot View Post
Holy shit at this.

Big 3 way trade rumored.

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey to A's
Mets send Hector Pellot to Twins
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets
Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot
That is a giant clusterfuck trade
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:57 PM   #675
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Santana would probably throw 300 K's in the NL.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:44 PM   #676
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I've also heard that the Tigers are very open to trading Willis right back out, and the Mets are linked to him AND Santana and may even try for both. Going into fantasy baseball mode:

Mets get LHP Johan Santana for LHP Oliver Perez, OF Carlos Gomez, RHP Aaron Heilman, RHP Kevin Mulvey

Mets get LHP Dontrelle Willis for OF Fernando Martinez (replace Maybin as superstar OF prospect), RHP Joe Smith, RHP Mike Pelfrey, C Johnny Estrada, cash (its been said the Tigers don't want to pay Ivan Rodriguez so cash would help)

Potentially Heilman and Smith flipped between the deals.

2008 ROTATION: Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, John Maine, Dontrelle Willis, Phillip Humber/Livan Hernandez/El Duque/Bartolo Colon/someone else

Fucking scary. It'd rape the minor league system to nothing...but having 3 of the first 33 picks this year can only help.
Last edited by Evil Vito; 12-05-2007 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:15 AM   #677
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Just more pitchers for Pat Burrell to own
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:36 AM   #678
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:13 AM   #679
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Dodgers land Andruw Jones. 2 years, 36 million... kinda risky. Also, since he is taking over center... Is Pierre gonna go to left? Kemp stays in right... Where does this leave Gonzo?

But yeah, that's a good problem to have. Andruw is the big bat we have been waiting to get for a long time.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:54 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 View Post
I've also heard that the Tigers are very open to trading Willis right back out, and the Mets are linked to him AND Santana and may even try for both. Going into fantasy baseball mode:

Mets get LHP Johan Santana for LHP Oliver Perez, OF Carlos Gomez, RHP Aaron Heilman, RHP Kevin Mulvey

Mets get LHP Dontrelle Willis for OF Fernando Martinez (replace Maybin as superstar OF prospect), RHP Joe Smith, RHP Mike Pelfrey, C Johnny Estrada, cash (its been said the Tigers don't want to pay Ivan Rodriguez so cash would help)

Potentially Heilman and Smith flipped between the deals.

2008 ROTATION: Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, John Maine, Dontrelle Willis, Phillip Humber/Livan Hernandez/El Duque/Bartolo Colon/someone else

Fucking scary. It'd rape the minor league system to nothing...but having 3 of the first 33 picks this year can only help.
I'd like to see your source on the Tigers trading Willis again. Because according to multiple sources in Detroit, there is no way Detroit is letting either of these 2 go for a long time
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