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Old 12-15-2007, 09:58 PM   #1
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John Cena == The Rock
There is no difference. Both do good promos and both have about the same wrestling skills (Cena is slightly better in the ring). Both did "POOP"/"GAY" jokes a bit too often. The only difference is the writing - there's no difference between the men themselves.

Cena in Rock's position 10 years ago would have made no difference.

Discuss.

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Old 12-15-2007, 09:59 PM   #2
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Rock was electrifying. And that's not just a catchphrase, he brought a very exciting energy to the show. Cena does not.

The end.
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:59 PM   #3
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Disagree.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:00 PM   #4
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In fact, Cena > Rock.

Discuss.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:04 PM   #5
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It didn't matter if you loved or hated Rocky. And if I do recall around 2000 TPWW was FULL of people who HATED The Rock and said he was nothing more than WWE produced shit that was shoveled down our throats. Except they still watched Rock matches, they still watched Rock promos, they still checked out Rock's appearances on SNL and in movies...people don't do that with John Cena. People turn off their TVs when John Cena is around. The Rock captivated audiences, Cena has never come close to that.

In terms of character, style of promo, hell even matches they might be comparable, but as far as bringing that magical X-Factor, Cena doesn't cut it.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:04 PM   #6
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Devil's Advocate?
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One View Post
It didn't matter if you loved or hated Rocky. And if I do recall around 2000 TPWW was FULL of people who HATED The Rock and said he was nothing more than WWE produced shit that was shoveled down our throats. Except they still watched Rock matches, they still watched Rock promos, they still checked out Rock's appearances on SNL and in movies...people don't do that with John Cena. People turn off their TVs when John Cena is around. The Rock captivated audiences, Cena has never come close to that.

In terms of character, style of promo, hell even matches they might be comparable, but as far as bringing that magical X-Factor, Cena doesn't cut it.
*raises hand*

I wasn't THAT extreme, but I was definitely in that grouping.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:06 PM   #8
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Sure he does. WWE just fucked him over. Had they turned him heel, left him that way for a few years and turned him back he would be BIGGER and BETTER than Rock.

Just because WWE pushed him too hard doesn't mean he doesn't have "it", it just means they've had too much of "it" the way they don't want "it".

Do you honestly think that if they left Rock in the same Rocky Maivia face role for a year or two longer that he would have gotten over like he did?
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:07 PM   #9
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Nah, there's no comparison. Move on.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:10 PM   #10
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Nah, there's no comparison. Move on.
Yah, there is. Prove me wrong.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 View Post
Sure he does. WWE just fucked him over. Had they turned him heel, left him that way for a few years and turned him back he would be BIGGER and BETTER than Rock.

Just because WWE pushed him too hard doesn't mean he doesn't have "it", it just means they've had too much of "it" the way they don't want "it".

Do you honestly think that if they left Rock in the same Rocky Maivia face role for a year or two longer that he would have gotten over like he did?
Sure he has "it." I still disagree with him being interchangable with the Rock.

Could he be this era's equivalent? Sure, potentially.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:11 PM   #12
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How Cena has been booked in the last 2 years or so reminds me more of Hogan in the mid to late 80's than Rock ten years ago.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 View Post
Yah, there is. Prove me wrong.
No, I don't see any fit reason to. You know you are wrong and are bringing this up merely to spark conversation. There is no way in hell that you could ever think that Cena even holds a candle to the Rock. In the short time Rocky had as a professional, he became one of the best ever. He was shoved down our throats to make up for the lost time he wasn't on television. He was ready for his spot after a very short time. Cena has charisma, but is not and never will be even near the level of Dwayne Johnson. He was paulted to the top WAAAAY to soon and he can't handle it. Rocky COMMANDED audiences. They hung on his every word. Half of the audience hates Cena.

You know you are wrong and are trying to create an arguement where there isn't one. Stop being retarded.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:18 PM   #14
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Fuck people who think The Rock isn't good in the ring.

Seriously
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redoneja View Post
How Cena has been booked in the last 2 years or so reminds me more of Hogan in the mid to late 80's than Rock ten years ago.
That's really not what he's getting at, though.

And I get where he's coming from, I just don't agree.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:29 PM   #16
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Furthermore, I laughed at Rock's jokes most of the time. Cena has yet to say anything that I've laughed at that was meant to be funny.
Last edited by Nark Order; 12-15-2007 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:31 PM   #17
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Disagree.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 View Post
In fact, Cena > Rock.

Discuss.
I hate you, and everything that you stand for.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:34 PM   #19
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Alls that I'm gonna say is Rock was way smarter than Cena could ever hope to be, and used a 1000 times more ring physcology.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:35 PM   #20
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LMAO at Cena being a better in ring performer. And I usually give Cena more credit than most.

The Rock can go, it's evident from his matches and many of the most gifted and respected in ring wrestlers of all time will testify to this.
Last edited by Jeritron; 12-15-2007 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
LMAO at Cena being a better in ring performer. And I usually give Cena more credit than most.

The Rock can go, it's evident from his matches and many of the most gifted and respected in ring wrestlers of all time will testify to this.
Cena's displayed a lot of ring skill. Just not post main event push.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Cena's displayed a lot of ring skill. Just not post main event push.

Yea, he also is very athletic and has gifts. He can hold his own in the ring, and doesn't usually get credit where it's due. However, I think it's no coincidence that his good matches in the past few years have only been with the likes of Shawn Michaels, Edge, and several others...I don't want to say he was completely carried, but I don't feel the quality of these matches were his doing.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Cena's displayed a lot of ring skill. Just not post main event push.
Word. That's the whole point of watering something down to sell to the kiddies.

Rock captivated an audience that was primarily male 18-34. Cena captivates an audience comprised of chicks and kids. WWE is pushing him as a watered down cash cow, but at least his natural charisma shines through when given freedom to promo however he wants. He could be as almost as good as The Rock if he were treated like any other main eventer instead of being Hoganized. He's just too bland for his own good.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:03 PM   #24
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lol...come the fuck on. The rock was entertaining, Cena is not. The difference is the rock was in it to entertain, cena only cares about whether he's the no.1 guy with the title or not.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL View Post
lol...come the fuck on. The rock was entertaining, Cena is not. The difference is the rock was in it to entertain, cena only cares about whether he's the no.1 guy with the title or not.
Cena can be entertaining. When he found his groove as a tweener and then as a face in 2003, man he was fucking awesome. They gayed it all up, tho to sell crap to kids and women.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL View Post
lol...come the fuck on. The rock was entertaining, Cena is not. The difference is the rock was in it to entertain, cena only cares about whether he's the no.1 guy with the title or not.

Although I agree with the first part of your statement (Rock being entertaining and Cena not being) I don't know how much that's really worth since entertainment is a case to case thing.

Some people enjoy watching CSPAN book readings and that's why it's on, I do not.
More people enjoy Soccer worldwide than any other sport, I however am hardly interested.

But, even though I agree with you personally, that kinda isn't fair. Rock did entertain MORE people, including you and I. That's true. Based on measurements like ratings, buyrates, merchandise sales and obvious things like popularity and mainstream success.

As for the last part of that statement, come on now... How do you know which each are in it for? Cenas given the title and pushed with it, how do you know that's all he cares about? And how do you know Rock was only in it to entertain? Where is he now?
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:18 PM   #27
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Yea, he also is very athletic and has gifts. He can hold his own in the ring, and doesn't usually get credit where it's due. However, I think it's no coincidence that his good matches in the past few years have only been with the likes of Shawn Michaels, Edge, and several others...I don't want to say he was completely carried, but I don't feel the quality of these matches were his doing.
Ever watch any of the Harry Potter movies?

(If so, I apologise up front)

The supporting cast in that series is comprised of a lot of well-known actors who have gone from great performances to chewing the scenery. I don't blame the actors, I blame the director.

Cena's an actor. He's beed told to play Superman. He's doing the best with a role he's given. This is why I get what Xero's saying, even though I disagree. Cena's wrestling to the desires of management.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:25 PM   #28
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I've only seen two of the Harry Potter movies an don't really follow them.

But I get what you're saying. Cena is definitely a talent, and his major failings over the past couple years are mainly to do with his job.

I say it quite often, it's not that I hate Cena it's that I hate the way he's booked. This, as you said, is the fault of the director (in this case Vince-creative). I agree Cena is just an actor doing his job.

I don't understand the hate directed towards him for holding the belt and not losing the matches. Do people honestly except the guy to refuse this? It's like asking someone to turn down the top position in their company and be content making a lower wage in a mid level position because they don't want dirty looks or lost respect from their watercooler buddies and the janitorial staff. Are they to blame for taking the job and doing it as best they can? Should they quit?
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:27 AM   #29
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I'm with KK here. I was never big on The Rock. In fact, I found him to be quite annoying. I didn't think he was funny (except for his occasional brilliant promo, like his one pre-Armageddon Hell in a Cell), and I never used to find him great in the ring.

John Cena is also a very gifted wrestler. I remember when he first debuted, everyone agreed that he was good enough in the ring, but he just had no personality. Then he got personality, and with his ring skills, got over. Then he lost both of them with his main event push.

And I think Xero may be playing Devil's Advocate here. If you're not, I apologise Xero. And also, before you ask people to prove you're wrong, you kind of have to prove you're right. You're working with a lot of "ifs" and "buts."

Going back and watching early John Cena videos, back from when everyone liked him, he just carried himself differently. His music wasn't annoying, he'd walk out to the ring looking like he didn't need to pose for the cameras, and damn it, the man just looked cool. He could really suck you into whatever he was doing. Now he storms out on stage like a kid throwing a temper tantrum, and I want to throw a brick through the screen.

The WWE needs to stop giving this guy notes, and instead let him return as a heel, and write his own promos. If I had things my way, Chris Jericho would be the WWE Champion, and you'd have a perfect feud for when he gets back. 2005: John Cena is WWE Champion, gets Jericho fired. Now in 2008, this man is holding his customised belt, and has taken his fans, and his spot. If he gets cheered for returning as a bitter cockweed, then roll with it. Have him win the WWE Championship as a bitter cockweed, and then have him feud with a heel bitter cockweed. Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock were basically characters that had their roots planted in heel personas, they just feuded with bad guys.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:46 AM   #30
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In terms of character, style of promo, hell even matches they might be comparable, but as far as bringing that magical X-Factor, Cena doesn't cut it.
I miss X-Factor, sure they sucked but i still miss the lower kliq members.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:02 AM   #31
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John Cena isn't bad at all, it was his superman push that made me hate him with a burning passion. Same reason I thought Bobby Lashley was alright, and then he got the superman push and demolished talent twice as good as him.

Before John got hurt, it was the only time I ever wanted Randy Orton to win a world title. Lesser of two evils.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:52 AM   #32
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The Rock was entertaining to watch (and still is, thanks Youtube) and the answer is so obvious.

The rock involved the crowd, end of story.
John Cena has similar qualities (The people's elbow = The 5 Knuckle Shuffle in terms of move stupidity) but Cena plays his promo's to the camera, rock played to the live audience. In my opinion, The Rock was the best heel I have watched as he could still be funny, he could still have a character and personality, but he wasn't annoying as a heel. He did heelish things, but still reacted to the crowd. Him telling people not to sing along with him, and calling them sheep, whilst he was a heel was IMO brilliance. His heel promos opposite the Hurricane were funny too.

I'm not saying JC can't be as good as The Rock was, but so far he hasn't come close.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:12 AM   #33
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Jerittron...its just the impression i get, while i don't know for sure, its the impression he gives. So its his own fault for me thinking that really. I guess the fact that wwe changed his gimmick didn't help, but he doesn'tseem toc are aslong as he's the top guy.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:12 AM   #34
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I'll admit to playing devil's advocate here - come on, you know my dickish gimmick.

However, I honestly do feel that Cena is better in the ring. Sure, Rock played to the crowd more when in the ring, but Cena has a better ratio of playing to the crowd to good wrestling, thus having a more balanced Psychology style. Rock rarely had what I would call "good" matches. Cena, while it's true he's in the ring with people who can carry him, has more good matches on a monthly basis than Rock had on a yearly basis.

Rock was all show. Cena is more balanced and rounded, even in his current gimmick.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:19 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool View Post
I miss X-Factor, sure they sucked but i still miss the lower kliq members.
And their theme-music
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I'll admit to playing devil's advocate here - come on, you know my dickish gimmick.

However, I honestly do feel that Cena is better in the ring. Sure, Rock played to the crowd more when in the ring, but Cena has a better ratio of playing to the crowd to good wrestling, thus having a more balanced Psychology style. Rock rarely had what I would call "good" matches. Cena, while it's true he's in the ring with people who can carry him, has more good matches on a monthly basis than Rock had on a yearly basis.

Rock was all show. Cena is more balanced and rounded, even in his current gimmick.
I agree with you on many points. Right up until the "even in his current gimmick." Even Rock's "stale" moveset got a reaction, for example, and comparably, it felt fresher, even to someone who complained that it was stale. The Rock was better paced, disaplyed psychology much better, and so on. And while I think a lot of that has to do with the direction WWE has given him, it doesn't change that Cena's worse currently, at the very least.

Cena's better overall in ring, but as far as his character goes...NO.
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:13 PM   #37
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And their theme-music
YO you dealin' with the X-Facta!!!
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:17 PM   #38
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Am I missing something here?!?!?!

The Rock was much better than Cena in the ring.

The Rock also has more charisma in the left nut than Cena has as a whole.

Sorry guys - but I honestly have no idea what people are going on about here.

While I do think that Cena is an amazing character (one of which is being mis-used by the WWE and one of which is sorely missed right now), he is NOT The Rock. The Rock has Cena beat in every category as far as I'm concerned (except maybe overall physical strength).
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:23 PM   #39
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Where is this 'Rocky was bad in-ring' stuff coming from? I'm constantly watching old tapes and DVDs and never once do I remember thinking to myself that Rock needed to better his in-ring work. Sometimes he was a little slow paced at worst but alot of that, at least in my opinion, had to do with his character. It just seemed like he was so full of himself that he knew he could take his time because he was going to win anyway. Also, Rock is one of the best 'sellers' I've ever seen. He could make anybody look legitimate and any make any move look like death. To this day, Rocky still wins for best Stunner, Gore, and F5 reactions.

Could somebody elaborate please as to why they think Rock needed work in the ring?
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:35 PM   #40
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The Rock built a legacy over a very short period of time.

He was the youngest man to ever win the WWF Championship when he won it.

He was part of the Corporation's plan to keep Stone Cold away from the belt throughout the attitude era.

He had several classic matches with Mankind/Mick Foley that will go down in history.

He had some of the greatest matches in Mania history with Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan.

His promos brought people to their feet every single night, in and out, whether he was a face or a heel. The people sang along with him every night.

He holds the co-record with Foley for the highest rated segment in RAW history.

He helped mold the careers of Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar.

He's the first guy to leave wrestling for Hollywood, become successful, and he might be the first guy to be able to retire from pro wrestling, and actually, truly mean it.


John Cena can't hold a fucking candle to those accolades. Everything he's earned since WrestleMania 21 going forward has had a force-fed feel to it. He hasn't had a SINGLE classic match in his career. His match with HBK on RAW was good, but nowhere near the level of something like Rock vs. Jericho at No Mercy 2001 (and that's one of Rock's least important matches).

His Mania encounters with Big Show, JBL, Triple H and HBK will go down in history the same way that Macho Man vs. DiBiase or Sid Justice vs. Hogan will go down in history; as information, but not as emotion. Not the way that Rock/Austin at Manias 15 and 17 will go down as emotional, pivotal matches in their careers and in the history of the WWE as a whole. Cena hasn't created that kind of emotion.

The fans don't sing along with John Cena. They mock his "chain gang" mentality bullshit. They boo his Marine-style antics. The only people who yell "COME GET SOME" and "THE CHAMP IS HERRRE" with him are little boys who don't know any better.

John Cena does not equal The Rock. Not even close. Not ever.
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