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Old 09-15-2008, 04:39 PM   #41
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I think a lot more hipsters who don't like wrestling will after this.

And yes great mainstream movies get shunned as well. And yes my statistics are very arbitrary. And Yes Harold and Kumar would go to TNA.

But no not every film wins an award, especially not a top award, some films get shat on by everyone, yeah some good films too. Critics aren't the be all and end all but it's at least a good sign that a number of people enjoyed a film with a subject matter that is mocked if not taboo in today's society what with the Chris Benoit, steroids scandal, Katie vick...
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:43 PM   #42
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Not they won't. Hipster will be interested in RoH, find out it is not like the movie at all, and go back to not watching it.
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:45 PM   #43
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I wasn't interested in learning more about Nazi-based groups after watching American History X.
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:45 PM   #44
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Just saying.
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:47 PM   #45
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That is only because you are black. But you were interested in curb stomping afterwards.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:36 PM   #46
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............fair play.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:41 PM   #47
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So let me get this straight...some of you think this movie sounds dumb? Yet, you read stories about Ariel leaving TNA and shit. And watch current wrestling programming?

Sounds very interesting to me. It's far less silly than wrestling itself (which don't get me wrong I love). But it's hard to reconcile calling this silly with actually watching wrestling. If anything, we should understand it more and be understanding of people unknowingly calling something silly that they know little about.

Sounds to be compelling, like beyond the mat, and Mick Foley/Jericho's autobiographies
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:42 PM   #48
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But I also love movies far more than wrestling
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:38 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
So let me get this straight...some of you think this movie sounds dumb? Yet, you read stories about Ariel leaving TNA and shit. And watch current wrestling programming?

Sounds very interesting to me. It's far less silly than wrestling itself (which don't get me wrong I love). But it's hard to reconcile calling this silly with actually watching wrestling. If anything, we should understand it more and be understanding of people unknowingly calling something silly that they know little about.

Sounds to be compelling, like beyond the mat, and Mick Foley/Jericho's autobiographies

To be fair, I've lost interest in wrestling ever since Jericho won the gold. Not because Jericho is unworthy, but the booking is so bad.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:02 AM   #50
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Fair enough, I've lost most interest long ago, but I still think it's hard to view this as stupid.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:42 AM   #51
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Wrestling is stupid, but this film doesn't capture the stupidness of wrestling, therefore the movie is stupid.
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:26 AM   #52
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You haven't seen it, you're just judging the idea. So am I, but I think the concept seems more engaging since it captures a side of wrestling that is more thought provoking, interesting and importantly, real. This has been seen in things like Beyond the Mat, or books.

Capturing the stupidness of wrestling has been done in Ready to Rumble, and No Holds Barred. Needless to say, I think the quality lies in truth based accounts, rather than in big screen attempts at kayfabe and silliness.
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:14 AM   #53
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Oh wait, no I'm not.

I will watch this, but only so I will know how terrible a movie about wrestling can actually be. This will make Ready to Rumble look like Casablanca.
I can't believe you said that, man. This is a great film-maker and, for the most part, a great cast. It has been winning awards on the filmmaking scene. This is going to be some good drama, and the movie might not be a classic, but I think the analogy you just drew is going to make you look like such an idiot.
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:33 AM   #54
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His rival would be just as old as him then, and would be shit in the ring, so what promoter would put it on?

So the rival still wrestling would be like Hogan or Flair. And neither of them would call up old retired wrestlers to fight. Flair would try to help newbs out, while Hogan would try to beat the new maineventers. So the story makes no sence to me.
What the fuck are you on about? Sure the wrestlers will be "past their prime," but you are talking about an industry that will still call Hulk Hogan back to wrestle, and just saw Ric Flair retire from active in-ring competition. You have an old billionaire get in the ring for hardcore matches, and Sting is getting paid more money than you deserve to see for his work in TNA.

Also, you compare the fictional characters in this to Hogan and Flair, and then expect that one would have to be an egomaniac, and the other would have to be interested in creating new stars. How fucking crippled are you in the mind? This movie is not going to fit your every fantasy about it, because most people aren't as dumb as you, and don't need their movies as dumb.

Yes, sometimes awards are handed out to films that don't deserve them. The Wrestler has been doing pretty well, however, and there are surely more "unique" choices at these festivals. That they are giving it to a movie that stars Mickey Rourke, was going to star Nicolas Cage, and is about a form of entertainment you can be sure they have each snubbed at least once in their life, you can be assured something is there. It may be overrated, and it might not be a classic, and maybe Marisa Tomei and Evan Rachel Wood just get naked enough, but saying it sounds dumb based on an incomplete blurb from a website, and making all these assumptions based off it, make you sound stupider than anyone who is going by what a bunch of critics are saying. These people have studied and live film. They know bad ones. Sometimes they are wrong; they are human, but they know bad ones.

Also, you'd be able to assume that "The Ayatollah" is a foreign heel type character. The relationship between Mickey Rourke and Ernest Miller will probably be synonymous to Hulk Hogan and The Iron Shiek, or something. Rourke will probably come back to the ring for the same reason as other guys do -- the need to get in front of a crowd again, the money, and the need to solidify one's legend. Didn't one icon of the sport recently say that they wanted to die in a wrestling ring? It'll most likely be Rourke's character tossing up his desire to wrestle (even if it means early death) with a future with a damaged woman and a daughter who might hate his guts and think wrestling is stupid. Death immortalised by sports entertainment, at a time where many believe it is real, and need the Americans to win; or life as a nobody and a traitor to the industry, to wrestling fans and to himself.

Also, if Harold and Kumar went to a wrestling promotion, it would probably be CHIKARA or PWG. Those two guys possess an ironic understanding of the racial stereotypes associated with their cultures. If they went to TNA, they would have to play a kung fu master who couldn't speak English and a telemarketer who owned a convenience store. They wouldn't be too happy about that, and would instead go to a more respectful promotion.
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Old 09-16-2008, 05:41 AM   #55
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This being a Darren Aronofsky movie, this should hopefully follow Ram Robinson (which isn't such a ridiculous name considering the trend in professional wrestling...and we just got Dolph Ziggler) and his heart condition to the logical conclusion. Robinson finishes the match, wins the World Heavyweight Championship, makes it to the back, and has a heart attack sometime later before he can fully enjoy the meaning of his kayfabe (and real life) victory.

A funeral scene with the characters unified at Robinson's grave sight, with Ernest Miller appearing without his Ayatollah get-up, potentially talking to Robinson's daughter, giving her some money, and revealing himself to just be an African-American guy playing a hateful character who really loved and respected Robinson behind the scenes could be great. Not sure if they'll be anything like that in the movie, of course, but Evan Rachel Wood's character admitting that The Ayatollah is such a good heel, because he is so likable in real life, would be icing on the cake.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:58 AM   #56
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Let's face it, it will be awful.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:57 AM   #57
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What ever Noid just said, I'm sure he missed my point.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:02 AM   #58
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Noid, I was saying Ernest Miller's character is the Flair or Hogan. A guy still wrestling. Does Hogan ever call up Iron Sheik for one more match? When is the last time Flair called up Steamboat for another match? Has Sting ever...um who is Sting's arch-rival? Flair? Well that might draw.

The point I'm trying to make that an early 80's wrestler that is still active isn't going to call up another early 80's retired wrestler for one more match especially if the retired guy has heart problems.

I say it all sounds silly. I'll watch it because I like wrestling, but I don't think they really get it.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:32 PM   #59
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I can't believe you said that, man. This is a great film-maker and, for the most part, a great cast. It has been winning awards on the filmmaking scene. This is going to be some good drama, and the movie might not be a classic, but I think the analogy you just drew is going to make you look like such an idiot.
A great cast of Ernest "The Cat" Miller and The Blue Meanie? Come off it, guy. It's really not that serious either way, whether I'm right or not.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:37 PM   #60
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This movie sounds like Noid booking, no wonder he likes it.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:55 PM   #61
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I'm not really looking at this in terms of it being a good movie as I am looking at it in terms of it being a good WRESTLING movie. It just sounds that the way they are handling wrestling as a profession is pretty stupid. It may have the greatest romance story ever written, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still have the dumbest wrestling story ever written in the very same script. Even if it's winning awards, chances are that those awards aren't coming from actual wrestling fans.
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:03 PM   #62
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I'm in agreement with Anybody Thrilla. What is the point of writing a great story around faulty ideas?
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:20 PM   #63
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I want to make a movie about a senile Ric Flair randomly calling people because he want's another match with them.
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:23 PM   #64
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*Ring Ring*
Terry Funk: Hello?
Recorded message: You have received a collect call from "WHOOOO! YOU AND ME BABY! STYLE AND PROFILIN ONE MORE TIME! COME ON!! I'LL KICK YOUR ASS! LET'S....." Do you accept the charges?
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:32 PM   #65
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I think there is sound logic in hipsters following ROH after this movie. I am, of course, basing this on what Darren Aronofsky films did for heroin use, the search for patterns in the stock market, and the quest for eternal life. Those hipsters love non-conformity.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:00 PM   #66
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That's not really a valid (although it is funny and witty) arguement.

Heroin use was negatively viewed in that movie.

There are no secret numbers in the stock market.

That movie was so out there, of course no one is gonna be inspired by it.

Pro wrestling is a thing that people can watch or not watch and it have no effect on there life all that much, I would imagine some who like the movie, might say , hmm I might give pro wrestling another chance, some might not
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:19 PM   #67
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You know, I'm pretty sure the involvement of ROH and CZW goes only as far as that parts were filmed at the shows because they needed a crowd. I highly doubt the name ROH will be an issue in the movie. At best, it may be on the ring, or they might get some sort of a mention, but I doubt it'll be a big deal.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:47 PM   #68
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I am just saying. I am not expecting this movie to cause a bunch of guys in corduroy blazers to start showing up at ROH shows. Plus to actually follow the thing takes kind of a commitment and ROH doesn't even have a tv show.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:31 PM   #69
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A great cast of Ernest "The Cat" Miller and The Blue Meanie? Come off it, guy. It's really not that serious either way, whether I'm right or not.
Blue Meanie will get like three lines in the movie. Miller might not even talk. His character could be the silent heel type. Fact is, you don't know anything about this movie. All we have to go on are the pedigrees of the cast, crew and the awards it has been winning. There is nothing to indicate it will be bad except a poorly written and probably surface-level synopsis.

As for it being a good WRESTLING movie. That was what I was asking, because it is impossible to tell from what we've got given. The guy has a silly name? He's old? It's set in the 80's? Nothing there tells you how it will handle the profession. If anything, it fits BDC's requirements of a wrestling movie being silly and over the top. Given the director and the cast, I doubt it's going to go that way, though. Personally, I think it will deal with wrestling as a carny industry with a weird allure and code of honour. I don't know, but I know my movies, and I believe that this will put a slanted romance on Ram Robinson's relationship with professional wrestling.
Last edited by Mr. Nerfect; 09-16-2008 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:37 PM   #70
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I'm in agreement with Anybody Thrilla. What is the point of writing a great story around faulty ideas?
A story builds from its ideas. A great story will be composed of great ideas. What the fuck do you have to go on that there are faulty ideas here? You know nothing about this project.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:47 PM   #71
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Noid, I was saying Ernest Miller's character is the Flair or Hogan. A guy still wrestling. Does Hogan ever call up Iron Sheik for one more match? When is the last time Flair called up Steamboat for another match? Has Sting ever...um who is Sting's arch-rival? Flair? Well that might draw.

The point I'm trying to make that an early 80's wrestler that is still active isn't going to call up another early 80's retired wrestler for one more match especially if the retired guy has heart problems.

I say it all sounds silly. I'll watch it because I like wrestling, but I don't think they really get it.
How the fuck do you know that The Ayatollah is the one who does the calling? Hogan tries to bitch out Savage all the time. Doesn't Sid Vicious want to make a comeback? There are rumours that Ricky Steamboat is looking to get back into the ring. Wasn't there some infamous Hogan vs. Piper match in WCW?

Besides, if you want instances where kayfabe rivals go at it years down the track, I think you are missing the point. If you cannot accept a hypothetical situation based closely on the realities of the wrestling business without a literal analogy to connect it to, then that is your failing, not Darren Aronofsky's. Besides, they will probably only been rivals in the sense that one was a top babyface and one was a top heel. How do you even know that Ernest Miller's character is still wrestling? How can you assume that it won't be like the much-rumoured Stone Cold vs. Hogan match, where both guys are out of the spotlight, but both step back into the ring for one big match?

How can you assume that Ernest Miller's character knows about Mickey Rourke's heart condition? Injuries in wrestling are often close-guarded, and guys work through a lot of that stuff because they don't want to be seen as bitches you need to take time off and ruin the plans of promoters. Keep in mind this is set in the 1980's, when kayfabe was runnin' wild and a hero character like Ram Robinson would probably need to appear indestructible.

As for this movie sounding like Noid booking? You are retarded. If there is one thing I avoid, it is booking Kevin Nash against Hulk Hogan in a battle of the octogenarians. I fantasy book new age, less clear-cut face/heel stuff.
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:44 AM   #72
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lol at Noid freaking out.

1) The movie starts in the 80's, he retires and comes back nowish.

2) I'm not going to bother arguing with Noid because he doesn't get it.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:46 PM   #73
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You know, I'm pretty sure the involvement of ROH and CZW goes only as far as that parts were filmed at the shows because they needed a crowd. I highly doubt the name ROH will be an issue in the movie. At best, it may be on the ring, or they might get some sort of a mention, but I doubt it'll be a big deal.
This is correct

And Terry Funk as someone posted up there is quite apt as they seem to have given Rourke's character the same kind of 'really needs to retire but can't because he's hooked on being a performer too much' kind of angle. He's a nobody if he's not in the ring, but in there he's a star.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:20 PM   #74
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Blue Meanie will get like three lines in the movie. Miller might not even talk. His character could be the silent heel type. Fact is, you don't know anything about this movie.
And neither do you. That's why I don't understand you defending it so vehemently. Miller will probably have all kinds of lines. He's one of the main characters. Why would they cast Ernest Miller, traditional loud mouth, as a silent hill type? You have absolutely no reason to assume that other than being pissed off that I am bashing a movie that neither of us knows anything about.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:23 PM   #75
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We're all talking pretty much from our asses here. There's absolutely no reason to get heated about it until any of us have seen it.

Noid, if I were you, I might try and chill out a little bit, or I'm afraid you may be drastically disappointed by this film.

All I'm really trying to say is that from the description of the film, it seems like the way that the wrestling business will be portrayed may not be as accurate as a smark like myself would like it to be. Sure the story may be great, but I just don't think it will be a great WRESTLING movie, which is what I would expect from a movie called The Wrestler. I could easily see myself being disappointed with it just as much as I was with Ready to Rumble. At least that had some semi-big names in it, though.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:24 PM   #76
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Sorry, semi-big WRESTLING names.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:37 PM   #77
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I agree with Trilla still. It sounds like they are vaguley basing the movie off of wrestling.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:41 PM   #78
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It's rare that BDC and I agree on something. This should be archived. Or closed. I can't figure which.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:46 PM   #79
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I'm think it is because we are think logically and seeing it for what it is instead of trying to build it up on a pedestal. People (not just in this thread) like to think indy stuff has a magical ability to change the world and is untouchable because the indy visionaries have some sort of superior ethics. Be it indy-rock, indy-movies, indy-wrestling or whatever. And this is a combination of an indy-movie and indy-wrestling so it has to be good and do things no one has any real proof that it can do.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:53 PM   #80
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I'm inclined to agree with that as well.
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