Major League Soccer (MLS)

**Stickman** · 03-24-2009, 11:43 PM

So now that Vancouver has been awarded a team I guess I'll kind of start following this league. Tell me what I need to know about Major League Soccer.

**ddpBANG** · 03-25-2009, 02:04 AM

**Ogen** · 03-25-2009, 05:59 AM

Just need to know that Juan Pablo Angel is your lord and master.s

**BCWWF** · 03-25-2009, 12:17 PM

Wow, I am all over this thread for you Stickman, give me some time and I'll tell you everything you need to know.

Any questions to start?

**BCWWF** · 03-25-2009, 12:44 PM

Some basics, I didn't care much for soccer here in the past, but once you look at MLS a little closer it's a pretty intriguing league. I mean by the basis of it being 16 years old, it is so far behind the established leagues in Europe and South America. But there is so much potential and it's intriguing to watch this league grow.

As you know, right now there are 15 teams. Philadelphia is joining the league next season and Vancouver and Portland are joining in 2011. It's likely that the league gets up to 20, or maybe 19, within a few years of that. Montreal, St. Louis and Miami seem to be the best bets for a team.

The element of MLS that has helped it boom in the last couple years is the soccer specific stadium. When the league started all of the teams were playing in carnivorous gridiron stadiums, and the 15K fans in 70K venues didn't provide for a good atmosphere or a major leauge feel for the league. Now, there are soccer specific stadiums in (order from oldest): Columbus, Los Angeles, Dallas, Chicago, Toronto, Denver and Salt Lake City. An amazing new stadium will open in New York next season, and Philadelphia will have one as well. Kansas City is building one and Washington D.C., San Jose and Houston are still playing politics.

The league took a big step at the start of the 2007 season. The most obvious change was the rule allowing Beckham, Juan Pablo Angel and Cuatemoc Blanco join the league. That season also introduced the SuperLiga competition against the top Mexican teams and finally introduced the youth academies. Toronto FC also debuted that year.

The coming of Toronto FC set a cornerstone for what future teams should look like. From the start, they sold out every game and had arguably the most dedicated fans in the league. This is the first season that they are expected to be pretty good, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Seattle Sounders FC just debuted last week to a sold out crowd of 32,000. They had to cap season tickets as 22,000 so people would still be able to get single game tickets. From the start they have developed traditions and have been fully embraced by the city, including a march to the stadium and a membership system like Barcelona where you can vote on the general manager. It's like the league is finally starting to treat the fans like soccer fans and not a minor league sport.

The league has its faults. The teams are still very much in the sporting background in many markets, and some of the older teams lost their hype and now struggle to draw fans (Colorado, New England, Dallas). For the most part though, the gameplay isn't as terrible as people assume it is. Of course it's not the Premiership, but it's not supposed to be.

There's also a fair amount of quality international players in the league. Besides the aforementioned Beckham, Blanco and Angel, we now have Freddie Ljungberg, Darren Huckerby, Brian McBride, Casey Keller, Guillermo Barros Scholletto, Carl Robinson, Albert Celades and a host of quality Central American players. There's also been an influx of talented South American talent, including Pablo Vitti and Fredy Montero, which only increases the quality of play and gives MLS some standing if these guys develop into players saught after in Europe (which they already were).

The whole Pacific Northwest thing that drew you in is kind of the talk right now, obviously. With Seattle's tremendous success having only played one game, people are excited about Portland and Vancouver. The three teams all had surprisingly strong rivalries dating back to the NASL days but continuing on through today in the USL First Division (the league right under MLS). Portland should have a renovated soccer specific stadium ready to go upon arrival and Vancouver is expected to renovate BC Place for soccer as well. The thought is that these teams will be embraced as well if not more than Seattle.

**Ogen** · 03-25-2009, 01:59 PM

How is Darren Huckerby doing? I really hope hes considered shite.

**BCWWF** · 03-25-2009, 02:33 PM

He was quite the spark plug when he arrived last season but apparently got off to a pretty weak start in the opener last week.

**WestNZ** · 03-25-2009, 05:49 PM

any word on wheather that spice boy dick wad is gonna go back to the galaxy

**CSL** · 03-25-2009, 05:58 PM

lol Carl Robinson

**Mooияakeя�** · 03-25-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSLi Manning

lol Carl Robinson

LOL Carl Robinson.

**BCWWF** · 03-25-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestNZ

any word on wheather that spice boy dick wad is gonna go back to the galaxy

Yeah, after the Serie A season he will be back with the Galaxy. It's stupid really, but LA got a lot of money for it and AC Milan is playing a friendly at the Home Depot Center as well.

**Stickman** · 03-28-2009, 12:32 PM

So the quality of play is pretty good? Didn't Montreal and Peurto Rico fromt the lower league spank MLS teams in a tourny not too long ago? How's that quality?

I get that it's supposed to be the number 1 league on the continent but looks like it's not talent wise. Do the players get paid decent money?

I dind't realize the teams drew pretty well, you hear nothing positive about soccer in the states, it's always a joke so to see that they get good numbers is good to me.

Do they still have that stupid penalty kick format where they actually get to dribble the ball in? Are there any other rules inconsistant with with FIFA?

**Stickman** · 03-28-2009, 12:35 PM

Oh and in Vancouver they've been pushing to build this private waterfront stadium that would probably be one of the most beautiful stadiums in the world in terms of view, yet stupid council always votes it down. No wonder Vancouver loses major events. They are renovating BC Place and I hope it works, that stadium is a dump currently.

**BCWWF** · 03-28-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickman

So the quality of play is pretty good? Didn't Montreal and Peurto Rico fromt the lower league spank MLS teams in a tourny not too long ago? How's that quality?

MLS team routinely beat USL-1 teams, and MLS has had success against the Mexican teams in the summer SuperLiga tournament. The main factor in terms of MLS' lack of success in the CONCACAF Champions League is that MLS rosters are terrible thin. In total there are only 20 senior players per team, and once you combine the league, US Open Cup, SuperLiga and Champions League the rosters are pretty worn down. And as odd as it seems, teams tend to focus on the league over the Champions League, so a lot of the early MLS exits last season were with basically MLS reserve sides.

Though nobody can doubt what the USL sides did was amazing. The Puerto Rico Islanders are in the Champions League semifinals now, and Montreal nearly made it. What was more impressive is Montreal had something like 55000 fans at their first game against Santos Laguna.

MLS teams are supposed to be more successful this year however, because the allocation is slightly different. Last year the best teams competed in every competition, but this year the best are in Champions League, next best in SuperLiga, etc. I think MLS will have Columbus, Chicago, Houston and possibly New York in the Champions League, which could be pretty formidable.

Quote:

I get that it's supposed to be the number 1 league on the continent but looks like it's not talent wise. Do the players get paid decent money?

Mexico is undoubtedly the best still, top to bottom. Although MLS teams would fit in the FMF pretty easily. Other then that, there is one good team in Costa Rica, Saprissa, and then a handful of other good teams. MLS is easily the second best behind Mexico from top to bottom, but the gap is closing. MLS swept SuperLiga last season.

Salaries in MLS are a big issue. To keep the league growing on the right pace (so it doesn't go too fast like the NASL) there is a pretty strict salary cap that is around $2 million per team. You can have one or two players who don't fully count towards the cap (David Beckham, for example), but otherwise the players make anywhere from 20k to 400k. The minimum is going to have to go up soon.

Quote:

I dind't realize the teams drew pretty well, you hear nothing positive about soccer in the states, it's always a joke so to see that they get good numbers is good to me.

Not all of the teams draw well, but even the ones that do are often left out of the discussion in the US media. Technically I think MLS averages about as many fans per game as the NBA. Some cities are obviously better than others (Seattle, Toronto, Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago and Washington D.C. draw very well). Some are pretty average (Colorado, San Jose, Kansas City, Dallas).

It's still very much a niche sport, which is why it is somewhat surprising to find out that there are passionate fans out there. The league still has a ways to go but there is a solid enough base.

Quote:

Do they still have that stupid penalty kick format where they actually get to dribble the ball in? Are there any other rules inconsistant with with FIFA?

No, they've pretty much gone to the traditional rules and have been there for a long time now.

Quote:

Oh and in Vancouver they've been pushing to build this private waterfront stadium that would probably be one of the most beautiful stadiums in the world in terms of view, yet stupid council always votes it down. No wonder Vancouver loses major events. They are renovating BC Place and I hope it works, that stadium is a dump currently.

Exactly.

If you want to start following the league, you have to know where to look for news. The big sports sites like ESPN and Fox Soccer don't have much other than the big stories, but check out:
� SoccerbyIves.net
� http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/
� http://insidesocal.com/soccer
� http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.co...ex.html#039446
� http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotr...occer_redcard/

The best one, du Nord, is no longer active. But those, especially Soccer by Ives, will keep you up to date. For a Canadian perspective I know Toronto FC is covered pretty extensively by the Sun, Star and Globe & Mail.

**Stickman** · 03-29-2009, 01:05 PM

Yeah, most of Canada avoids anything Toronto.

**Mooияakeя�** · 03-31-2009, 08:08 PM

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news...._mls&fext=.jsp

lol. Rohan Ricketts, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio, Darren Huckerby... seems there's a few players who think they can be gods in the MLS.

Seriously, if the MLS doesn't start going for decent players soon, with a proper transfer system, it's just gonna be ridiculed forever. They have one heck of market there to be used.

**Mike the Metal Ed** · 03-31-2009, 08:27 PM

Dynamo close to signing veteran Akinbiyi

By BERNARDO FALLAS Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle

March 26, 2009, 1:55AM

AP

At 6-foot-1, 192 pounds, Akinbiyi is regarded as a strong forward with good pace and aerial presence.

The Dynamo are looking to sign forward Ade Akinbiyi, a veteran of the English leagues, as early as next week.
Coach Dominic Kinnear on Wednesday said Akinbiyi, 34, is set to undergo a physical this weekend in Houston.
The Dynamo are at San Jose on Saturday.
At 6-1, 192 pounds, Akinbiyi is regarded as a strong forward with good pace and aerial presence.
An English player of Nigerian descent, Akinbiyi has been at Burnley of the Football League Championship (a level below the English Premier League) for the past two years. He has seen limited minutes as a substitute this season.
If he is signed, the Dynamo will be Akinbiyi�s 12th club in a career spanning 16 years.

**Mike the Metal Ed** · 03-31-2009, 08:29 PM

AAAADE! ADE! ADE! ADE ADE!

**Mooияakeя�** · 03-31-2009, 08:47 PM

I posted that right above you

**Mike the Metal Ed** · 03-31-2009, 08:55 PM

Sorry, scrolled up to see if it had been mentioned, and it hadn't, didn't read the link.

I feel this groundbreaking day for MLS deserves a copy-paste.

ADE! ADE! ADE!

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooияakeя�

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news...._mls&fext=.jsp

lol. Rohan Ricketts, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio, Darren Huckerby... seems there's a few players who think they can be gods in the MLS.

Seriously, if the MLS doesn't start going for decent players soon, with a proper transfer system, it's just gonna be ridiculed forever. They have one heck of market there to be used.

That's kind of the point. You could say the exact same thing about the ice hockey league you made a thread about. MLS isn't the major football league in the world and the United States is far from the top producer of players. The league has to put a footprint into the ground and become profitable before it starts buying better players.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

That's kind of the point. You could say the exact same thing about the ice hockey league you made a thread about. MLS isn't the major football league in the world and the United States is far from the top producer of players. The league has to put a footprint into the ground and become profitable before it starts buying better players.

You can't really compare what i said re: IH to this.

Football is a global sport, IH isn't
Football has a bigger audience world wide
Football is far more established in the US than Ice Hockey is here (and always will be, until a nuclear winter)

Ice Hockey clubs here DO make a profit, and still their not trying to tempt anything. They are just plugging along whereas the MLS has tried, and with Becks, has succeeded in getting top stars. I'm sure they will eventually turn a profit, but nigh on 15 years without making one overall is fucking stupid business. Shocking at the least. If they'd have started the league how it is now, the model in 15 years would be far better.

I know they can't go for the best, but ffs, there's a lot of talent coming out of the Academies that shit all over the English rejects their taking.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 02:02 PM

You make some points, but again you don't really understand the culture of football in America. We'll have millions of people watching the World Cup and Champions League, but only 17,000 are expected for a World Cup qualifier in Nashville this week. And a big part of the reason we get high numbers for the World Cup and the Gold Cup is because the giant Mexican population.

In theory, the United States could go out and buy good players and fans would come out to watch. But look at the NASL. The New York Cosmos signed Pele and big crowds showed up and new teams sprouted out and then a few years later the league was gone.

Further, European teams have a mystique to people anywhere in the world, whether that's fans or players. The fact that the leagues in Europe have the best players from every continent in the world and very few of them are American makes it exotic. Those teams have histories, legendary stadiums, epic rivalries. Why would Cristiano Ronaldo play anywhere but Man United, Real Madrid, Barcelona or AC Milan?

The United States is never going to have the elite soccer league, and at this point spending millions of dollars to bring in players past their prime will still not make this a mainstream league.

The league is slowly moving in the right direction, which is establishing academies for the teams and bringing in more and more young South American talent. If MLS can put an exciting product on the pitch and continue developing players for bigger pastures, the league will continue to grow, continue to make money, continue to develop fans and eventually start signing bigger players.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/us...ef=global-home

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 02:04 PM

Also, the profitability issue has more to do with team's not controlling revenue from their stadiums than anything else.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 02:13 PM

You know it all comes down to "SOCCER". if the US called it football, we wouldn't be having this conversation. See Australia turning from soccer to football. They've already have Dwight Yorke and Robbie Fowler go over there. Both of those shit on the names above, and could still play better today than any of the shit that's gone over to the MLS bar Beckham.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 03:11 PM

Robbie Fowler tried to find a team in MLS but nobody wanted him.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Robbie Fowler tried to find a team in MLS but nobody wanted him.

Don't mean he's any shitter than the crop of idiots in MLS.

Agreed, age ain't on his side, and tbh, he had let him self go, but 1 month die hard, he is easily swansong season material. Plus the experience he can pass on compared to many would be an asset.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 03:22 PM

I still don't think you understand that the point of MLS was to grow American soccer, not to overpay players like Robbie Fowler who are unable to find a club that wants them in England.

Beckham was brought over because he is an international celebrity who more than pays for himself in terms of attendance increases and shirt sales. Not to mention he is still a world class player, despite two years in MLS. Overall he did what he was supposed to and that is put Major League Soccer on the map. Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 03:27 PM

To be honest the overall British response to Major League Soccer since Beckham arrived has been so forced to discredit the league, it's almost comical.

Nobody has ever tried to say that Major League Soccer is supposed to be on the same level as the Premiership, La Liga or Serie A. I don't really understand why you take offense to an American league with mostly American players that is admittedly lower quality than the biggest leagues in the world.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

To be honest the overall British response to Major League Soccer since Beckham arrived has been so forced to discredit the league, it's almost comical.

There is no British league and I wasn't talking from a British or English point of view anyway. I don't think the Scots or Welsh give a fuck Becks in the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Nobody has ever tried to say that Major League Soccer is supposed to be on the same level as the Premiership, La Liga or Serie A. I don't really understand why you take offense to an American league with mostly American players that is admittedly lower quality than the biggest leagues in the world.

Where have I taken offence? Where did I say the US was meant to be on par with the Prem or La Liga?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer.

You know, I wasn't even in argument or discrediting anything u said, but this just makes me end any participation in this thread. So u think that everything is during 90 minutes? There's no training assistance, no personal experiences, no back room advice, no investment on his part if he wishes?

Sometimes someone's presence is all u need. If a footballer is clued up, they will take any advice from a one-time excellent footballer they can get and learn and improve from it.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 04:33 PM

I didn't mean to offend you, but everything you have said in this thread has been degrading what MLS is and in a condescending tone. Example:

Quote:

Don't mean he's any shitter than the crop of idiots in MLS.

I've tried to explain numerous times why it is the way it is here, but you are stuck on the same pretenses that most Englishmen (that I've heard, at least) are. There's some notion displayed in the tabloids and reflected in what you have said in this thread that MLS is a terrible organization and has no merit to exist. I don't understand why. Americans have only really been playing soccer for 20 or so years now, of course our league is minor. But no, every player is not terrible, and yes, the league is growing quite rapidly. I love to discuss the growth, but you were stuck on insulting the league and its players.

I'm sorry saying that Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer offended you, but again you are taking it out of context. Of course experienced European and South American players add to the game. You've already trashed the league for having guys like Darren Huckerby. The point is simply that Robbie Fowler was linked to several clubs in this league and no team deemed him worthwhile. And to be honest, of any player I think he fits the description of what the United States doesn't want more than anybody else—he is old, washed up and is simply looking for a paycheck.

The other players you mentioned are not of the class of solid Europeans, but they are competitive in the league. Rohan Ricketts, Darren Huckerby, Carl Robinson, etc. never had the success of Fowler, but they came to MLS with more than simply the intention of collecting a big paycheck before they retire.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 04:56 PM

Again, I didn't mean to offend you, and I'd be glad to actually discuss this with you, but some of your comments came off as so condescending that it became frustrating.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 04:56 PM

FFS, u know I hate doing this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

but everything you have said in this thread has been degrading what MLS is and in a condescending tone.

Bullshit. How is it? I haven't said it's a shit league. I said English players want to go over there and think they are gods. Also, on top of this, everything i said was degrading??? How is this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooияakeя�

there's a lot of talent coming out of the Academies that shit all over the English rejects their taking.

degrading what MLS is and in a condescending tone to the MLS?

If your going to try an argue or say I said things, at least get it correct. Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

There's some notion displayed in the tabloids and reflected in what you have said in this thread that MLS is a terrible organization and has no merit to exist. I don't understand why.

You don't understand why? Really... I fucking don't. Seriously, who has said this? I certainly haven't, and I'm proud it exists.

There's no way even .2% of the population of football fans would even think, let alone, say this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Americans have only really been playing soccer for 20 or so years now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FI..._Cup#Group_4_2

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive...02/report.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...NASL_1968-1984

Enough said about "20 years" ok!??!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

But no, every player is not terrible, and yes, the league is growing quite rapidly. I love to discuss the growth, but you were stuck on insulting the league and its players

Again, I was abusing English players going over there. That's the main topic I was on and what the idiots reference refers to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

You've already trashed the league for having guys like Darren Huckerby. The point is simply that Robbie Fowler was linked to several clubs in this league and no team deemed him worthwhile. And to be honest, of any player I think he fits the description of what the United States doesn't want more than anybody else�he is old, washed up and is simply looking for a paycheck.

Huckerby was always average at best, the rest weren't even near that. Decent game here and there. Fowler was a god for Liverpool.

Saying he is after a paycheck? He is one of the richest ex-footballers in the world and was listed in 2005 or 2006 as one of the 1000 richest Britons. He doesn't need a shitty paycheck that couldn't match his property and investments portfolio anyway, He's rated at �28m, but net value is estimated at �127m. He and Steve McManaman invested in racing horses with their company quite successfully.

For fact and source of the , please see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/t...h-list-beckham

Now lets just fucking end this.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 05:11 PM

If you actually read the links you posted you would know that soccer was played in the United States mainly by immigrants around mid-century, but despite the NASL the sport was basically non-existent on a participatory level until before the 1990 World Cup. Then in 1994 we hosted the World Cup and had charismatic players like Cobi Jones and Alexi Lalas, and then in 1996 MLS was created.

That's this history of the sport in this country.

And I still don't what I said could have possibly upset you this much. You are posting like you have some superior understanding of the American game when clearly you don't. We're simply trying to build the sport up in America so we can be on par with the rest of the world. I understand that some of the stars in MLS are amusing to you, because they weren't anything over there, but that's just how it is and I enjoy it. I like where it is going.

The most comparable situation is the Australian A-League, and on that standard I think both leagues are developing quite nicely. They are both developing homegrown talent and supplementing it with similarly talented foreigners. I would love to see more focus on the similarly talente MLS/A-League/J-League/K-League.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

If you actually read the links you posted you would know that soccer was played in the United States mainly by immigrants around mid-century, but despite the NASL the sport was basically non-existent on a participatory level until before the 1990 World Cup. Then in 1994 we hosted the World Cup and had charismatic players like Cobi Jones and Alexi Lalas, and then in 1996 MLS was created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FI...ld_Cup#Group_4 - "The US team, which contained one ex-professional of British origin".... hardly a team of immigrants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

You are posting like you have some superior understanding of the American game when clearly you don't.

Based on the world average, I would confidently say I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

The most comparable situation is the Australian A-League, and on that standard I think both leagues are developing quite nicely. They are both developing homegrown talent and supplementing it with similarly talented foreigners. I would love to see more focus on the similarly talente MLS/A-League/J-League/K-League.

Hmmm....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5973863.ece

"If the North American Soccer League represented a retirement home for ageing superstar footballers back in the 1970s, the A-League now appears to be the place to wind down after a star-spangled career."

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 05:34 PM

Oh my god. Seriously?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

The US team, which contained one ex-professional of British origin,^[14] and some international migrants along with mostly natural-born players

It was in the same fucking sentence, guy. The same can be said about the 1950 team. There's a book about it, called "Game of their lives" or something. Soccer in the United States was played almost exclusively by immigrants from other countries back. This talks a bit about it: http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/myth1930.html. That shouldn't be surprising, seeing as there were huge immigrant populations in the United States forever, but soccer was largely played by the foreigners. Look at the history of the US Open Cup and you can tell which teams are from the Irish neighborhoods and the Italians etc., etc., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamar_Hunt_U.S._Open_Cup.

Quote:

Based on the world average, I would confidently say I do.

I'm finding this to be true, but I am not the world average. I am somebody who follows MLS as closely as anybody in the world barring reporters.

And your last link doesn't really prove anything. In fact it more so reestablishes your former point that older European players can help younger players who weren't raised in the top academies in Europe. The A-League is doing well for itself, and I believe it represented Asia in the most recent Club World Cup.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 05:39 PM

The A-League is doing fine, as they have the right mix of what they need. Not just taking a pile of shit from other countries.

Also, "mostly" natural born players works fine there. There's no issue with that. Hence, why it's no an arguement.

I can see where this is going and the type of person you are. So, what would u like me to say to please u? there's no point saying anything to discuss anything. If ur in the soccer thread, then I guess we'll meet in there where u can argue more.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 05:41 PM

I can see if you interpreted what I said as being, "The players on the original USA teams weren't really Americans."

But that's not what I meant. My point was the people played soccer, sometimes even on a semi-professional extent, but it was mainly in the areas of heavy immigration and strongly ethnic neighborhoods. The most famous example is The Hill in St. Louis, where all of the Italian families lived and where a handful of guys on the 1950 World Cup team came from.

Just to clarify.

**Mooияakeя�** · 04-01-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

I can see if you interpreted what I said as being, "The players on the original USA teams weren't really Americans."

But that's not what I meant. My point was the people played soccer, sometimes even on a semi-professional extent, but it was mainly in the areas of heavy immigration and strongly ethnic neighborhoods. The most famous example is The Hill in St. Louis, where all of the Italian families lived and where a handful of guys on the 1950 World Cup team came from.

Just to clarify.

OK.

**BCWWF** · 04-01-2009, 05:51 PM

To be honest I'm not even sure why you are arguing with me. I mean you disagree when I say the A-League is doing well for itself and completing its purpose, and then you agree that the A-League is doing just fine.

I can tell you are more interested in soccer outside of Europe than some of the people on these boards, and so am I. I think our problem came when I interpreted your earlier comments as being more condescending than discussion-worthy regarding MLS, but if you want to discuss soccer in America I am more than happy to as long as you at least seem open minded about it.

In general, your opinions seem to mirror those of most Europeans, including Jose Mourinho the other day: http://www.examiner.com/x-4128-New-E...global-process

A lot of Europeans feel like MLS is holding itself back and should spend more money and bring in more stars, because there is clearly a lot of potential for growth in the U.S. But most of the Americans who actually follow the league closely disagree and think the league is growing at the right pace.

03-24-2009, 11:43 PM	#1
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	Major League Soccer (MLS) So now that Vancouver has been awarded a team I guess I'll kind of start following this league. Tell me what I need to know about Major League Soccer. Insert Signature Here

03-25-2009, 12:44 PM	#5
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Some basics, I didn't care much for soccer here in the past, but once you look at MLS a little closer it's a pretty intriguing league. I mean by the basis of it being 16 years old, it is so far behind the established leagues in Europe and South America. But there is so much potential and it's intriguing to watch this league grow. As you know, right now there are 15 teams. Philadelphia is joining the league next season and Vancouver and Portland are joining in 2011. It's likely that the league gets up to 20, or maybe 19, within a few years of that. Montreal, St. Louis and Miami seem to be the best bets for a team. The element of MLS that has helped it boom in the last couple years is the soccer specific stadium. When the league started all of the teams were playing in carnivorous gridiron stadiums, and the 15K fans in 70K venues didn't provide for a good atmosphere or a major leauge feel for the league. Now, there are soccer specific stadiums in (order from oldest): Columbus, Los Angeles, Dallas, Chicago, Toronto, Denver and Salt Lake City. An amazing new stadium will open in New York next season, and Philadelphia will have one as well. Kansas City is building one and Washington D.C., San Jose and Houston are still playing politics. The league took a big step at the start of the 2007 season. The most obvious change was the rule allowing Beckham, Juan Pablo Angel and Cuatemoc Blanco join the league. That season also introduced the SuperLiga competition against the top Mexican teams and finally introduced the youth academies. Toronto FC also debuted that year. The coming of Toronto FC set a cornerstone for what future teams should look like. From the start, they sold out every game and had arguably the most dedicated fans in the league. This is the first season that they are expected to be pretty good, so it will be interesting to see what happens. Seattle Sounders FC just debuted last week to a sold out crowd of 32,000. They had to cap season tickets as 22,000 so people would still be able to get single game tickets. From the start they have developed traditions and have been fully embraced by the city, including a march to the stadium and a membership system like Barcelona where you can vote on the general manager. It's like the league is finally starting to treat the fans like soccer fans and not a minor league sport. The league has its faults. The teams are still very much in the sporting background in many markets, and some of the older teams lost their hype and now struggle to draw fans (Colorado, New England, Dallas). For the most part though, the gameplay isn't as terrible as people assume it is. Of course it's not the Premiership, but it's not supposed to be. There's also a fair amount of quality international players in the league. Besides the aforementioned Beckham, Blanco and Angel, we now have Freddie Ljungberg, Darren Huckerby, Brian McBride, Casey Keller, Guillermo Barros Scholletto, Carl Robinson, Albert Celades and a host of quality Central American players. There's also been an influx of talented South American talent, including Pablo Vitti and Fredy Montero, which only increases the quality of play and gives MLS some standing if these guys develop into players saught after in Europe (which they already were). The whole Pacific Northwest thing that drew you in is kind of the talk right now, obviously. With Seattle's tremendous success having only played one game, people are excited about Portland and Vancouver. The three teams all had surprisingly strong rivalries dating back to the NASL days but continuing on through today in the USL First Division (the league right under MLS). Portland should have a renovated soccer specific stadium ready to go upon arrival and Vancouver is expected to renovate BC Place for soccer as well. The thought is that these teams will be embraced as well if not more than Seattle. Last edited by BCWWF; 03-25-2009 at 12:47 PM.

03-25-2009, 05:49 PM	#8
WestNZ Der Metzgermeister Posts: 601	any word on wheather that spice boy dick wad is gonna go back to the galaxy http://my-wanganui.myminicity.com/

03-25-2009, 05:59 AM	#3
Ogen Posts: 16,220	Just need to know that Juan Pablo Angel is your lord and master.s

03-25-2009, 12:17 PM	#4
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Wow, I am all over this thread for you Stickman, give me some time and I'll tell you everything you need to know. Any questions to start?

03-25-2009, 01:59 PM	#6
Ogen Posts: 16,220	How is Darren Huckerby doing? I really hope hes considered shite.

03-25-2009, 02:33 PM	#7
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	He was quite the spark plug when he arrived last season but apparently got off to a pretty weak start in the opener last week.

03-25-2009, 05:58 PM	#9
CSL Over Like Rover Posts: 38,444	lol Carl Robinson

03-28-2009, 12:32 PM	#12
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	So the quality of play is pretty good? Didn't Montreal and Peurto Rico fromt the lower league spank MLS teams in a tourny not too long ago? How's that quality? I get that it's supposed to be the number 1 league on the continent but looks like it's not talent wise. Do the players get paid decent money? I dind't realize the teams drew pretty well, you hear nothing positive about soccer in the states, it's always a joke so to see that they get good numbers is good to me. Do they still have that stupid penalty kick format where they actually get to dribble the ball in? Are there any other rules inconsistant with with FIFA?

03-28-2009, 12:35 PM	#13
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	Oh and in Vancouver they've been pushing to build this private waterfront stadium that would probably be one of the most beautiful stadiums in the world in terms of view, yet stupid council always votes it down. No wonder Vancouver loses major events. They are renovating BC Place and I hope it works, that stadium is a dump currently.

03-29-2009, 01:05 PM	#15
Stickman Stickman Posts: 15,119	Yeah, most of Canada avoids anything Toronto.

03-31-2009, 08:08 PM	#16
Mooияakeя� ▒▓▀▄WINNER▄▀▓▒ Posts: 5,070	http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news...._mls&fext=.jsp lol. Rohan Ricketts, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio, Darren Huckerby... seems there's a few players who think they can be gods in the MLS. Seriously, if the MLS doesn't start going for decent players soon, with a proper transfer system, it's just gonna be ridiculed forever. They have one heck of market there to be used.

03-31-2009, 08:27 PM	#17
Mike the Metal Ed VALENT�A Posts: 11,988	Dynamo close to signing veteran Akinbiyi By BERNARDO FALLAS Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle March 26, 2009, 1:55AM AP At 6-foot-1, 192 pounds, Akinbiyi is regarded as a strong forward with good pace and aerial presence. The Dynamo are looking to sign forward Ade Akinbiyi, a veteran of the English leagues, as early as next week. Coach Dominic Kinnear on Wednesday said Akinbiyi, 34, is set to undergo a physical this weekend in Houston. The Dynamo are at San Jose on Saturday. At 6-1, 192 pounds, Akinbiyi is regarded as a strong forward with good pace and aerial presence. An English player of Nigerian descent, Akinbiyi has been at Burnley of the Football League Championship (a level below the English Premier League) for the past two years. He has seen limited minutes as a substitute this season. If he is signed, the Dynamo will be Akinbiyi�s 12th club in a career spanning 16 years.

03-25-2009, 02:04 AM	#2
ddpBANG 90% spam Posts: 2,814

03-31-2009, 08:29 PM	#18
Mike the Metal Ed VALENT�A Posts: 11,988	AAAADE! ADE! ADE! ADE ADE!

03-31-2009, 08:47 PM	#19
Mooияakeя� ▒▓▀▄WINNER▄▀▓▒ Posts: 5,070	I posted that right above you

03-31-2009, 08:55 PM	#20
Mike the Metal Ed VALENT�A Posts: 11,988	Sorry, scrolled up to see if it had been mentioned, and it hadn't, didn't read the link. I feel this groundbreaking day for MLS deserves a copy-paste. ADE! ADE! ADE!

04-01-2009, 02:02 PM	#23
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	You make some points, but again you don't really understand the culture of football in America. We'll have millions of people watching the World Cup and Champions League, but only 17,000 are expected for a World Cup qualifier in Nashville this week. And a big part of the reason we get high numbers for the World Cup and the Gold Cup is because the giant Mexican population. In theory, the United States could go out and buy good players and fans would come out to watch. But look at the NASL. The New York Cosmos signed Pele and big crowds showed up and new teams sprouted out and then a few years later the league was gone. Further, European teams have a mystique to people anywhere in the world, whether that's fans or players. The fact that the leagues in Europe have the best players from every continent in the world and very few of them are American makes it exotic. Those teams have histories, legendary stadiums, epic rivalries. Why would Cristiano Ronaldo play anywhere but Man United, Real Madrid, Barcelona or AC Milan? The United States is never going to have the elite soccer league, and at this point spending millions of dollars to bring in players past their prime will still not make this a mainstream league. The league is slowly moving in the right direction, which is establishing academies for the teams and bringing in more and more young South American talent. If MLS can put an exciting product on the pitch and continue developing players for bigger pastures, the league will continue to grow, continue to make money, continue to develop fans and eventually start signing bigger players. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/us...ef=global-home

04-01-2009, 02:04 PM	#24
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Also, the profitability issue has more to do with team's not controlling revenue from their stadiums than anything else.

04-01-2009, 02:13 PM	#25
Mooияakeя� ▒▓▀▄WINNER▄▀▓▒ Posts: 5,070	You know it all comes down to "SOCCER". if the US called it football, we wouldn't be having this conversation. See Australia turning from soccer to football. They've already have Dwight Yorke and Robbie Fowler go over there. Both of those shit on the names above, and could still play better today than any of the shit that's gone over to the MLS bar Beckham.

04-01-2009, 03:11 PM	#26
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Robbie Fowler tried to find a team in MLS but nobody wanted him.

04-01-2009, 03:22 PM	#28
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I still don't think you understand that the point of MLS was to grow American soccer, not to overpay players like Robbie Fowler who are unable to find a club that wants them in England. Beckham was brought over because he is an international celebrity who more than pays for himself in terms of attendance increases and shirt sales. Not to mention he is still a world class player, despite two years in MLS. Overall he did what he was supposed to and that is put Major League Soccer on the map. Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer.

04-01-2009, 03:27 PM	#29
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	To be honest the overall British response to Major League Soccer since Beckham arrived has been so forced to discredit the league, it's almost comical. Nobody has ever tried to say that Major League Soccer is supposed to be on the same level as the Premiership, La Liga or Serie A. I don't really understand why you take offense to an American league with mostly American players that is admittedly lower quality than the biggest leagues in the world.

04-01-2009, 04:56 PM	#32
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Again, I didn't mean to offend you, and I'd be glad to actually discuss this with you, but some of your comments came off as so condescending that it became frustrating.

04-01-2009, 05:11 PM	#34
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	If you actually read the links you posted you would know that soccer was played in the United States mainly by immigrants around mid-century, but despite the NASL the sport was basically non-existent on a participatory level until before the 1990 World Cup. Then in 1994 we hosted the World Cup and had charismatic players like Cobi Jones and Alexi Lalas, and then in 1996 MLS was created. That's this history of the sport in this country. And I still don't what I said could have possibly upset you this much. You are posting like you have some superior understanding of the American game when clearly you don't. We're simply trying to build the sport up in America so we can be on par with the rest of the world. I understand that some of the stars in MLS are amusing to you, because they weren't anything over there, but that's just how it is and I enjoy it. I like where it is going. The most comparable situation is the Australian A-League, and on that standard I think both leagues are developing quite nicely. They are both developing homegrown talent and supplementing it with similarly talented foreigners. I would love to see more focus on the similarly talente MLS/A-League/J-League/K-League.

04-01-2009, 05:39 PM	#37
Mooияakeя� ▒▓▀▄WINNER▄▀▓▒ Posts: 5,070	The A-League is doing fine, as they have the right mix of what they need. Not just taking a pile of shit from other countries. Also, "mostly" natural born players works fine there. There's no issue with that. Hence, why it's no an arguement. I can see where this is going and the type of person you are. So, what would u like me to say to please u? there's no point saying anything to discuss anything. If ur in the soccer thread, then I guess we'll meet in there where u can argue more.

04-01-2009, 05:41 PM	#38
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I can see if you interpreted what I said as being, "The players on the original USA teams weren't really Americans." But that's not what I meant. My point was the people played soccer, sometimes even on a semi-professional extent, but it was mainly in the areas of heavy immigration and strongly ethnic neighborhoods. The most famous example is The Hill in St. Louis, where all of the Italian families lived and where a handful of guys on the 1950 World Cup team came from. Just to clarify.

04-01-2009, 05:51 PM	#40
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	To be honest I'm not even sure why you are arguing with me. I mean you disagree when I say the A-League is doing well for itself and completing its purpose, and then you agree that the A-League is doing just fine. I can tell you are more interested in soccer outside of Europe than some of the people on these boards, and so am I. I think our problem came when I interpreted your earlier comments as being more condescending than discussion-worthy regarding MLS, but if you want to discuss soccer in America I am more than happy to as long as you at least seem open minded about it. In general, your opinions seem to mirror those of most Europeans, including Jose Mourinho the other day: http://www.examiner.com/x-4128-New-E...global-process A lot of Europeans feel like MLS is holding itself back and should spend more money and bring in more stars, because there is clearly a lot of potential for growth in the U.S. But most of the Americans who actually follow the league closely disagree and think the league is growing at the right pace.