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Old 04-10-2009, 05:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Remember when Shelton beat HHH in 2004? Good times
Remember how Triple H then elevated his game to completely new levels while Shelton Benjamin started to face motivation problems? The results that soon followed spoke for themselves.

Sad times.

Fortunately however, Benjamin seems to be slowly getting back on track. The question however, is if he can finally break through to the main-event level? Benjamin is the best pure athlete in the WWE. However, athleticism can only take you so far. In the end, it ultimately comes down to heart and motivation.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:03 PM   #42
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Remember when HHH lost the World Heavyweight Championship at WrestleMania XX?
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:05 PM   #43
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Wrestlemania XX was a great moment for both Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero. I think all of us were a little teary eyed that night when we saw them hug in the ring.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Delaney View Post
Remember how Triple H then elevated his game to completely new levels while Shelton Benjamin started to face motivation problems? The results that soon followed spoke for themselves.

Sad times.

Fortunately however, Benjamin seems to be slowly getting back on track. The question however, is if he can finally break through to the main-event level? Benjamin is the best pure athlete in the WWE. However, athleticism can only take you so far. In the end, it ultimately comes down to heart and motivation.
Benjamin has done a lot to prove himself. And we should all forget his botches like we forgot that guy.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:08 PM   #45
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Benjamin has done a lot to prove himself...lately, but still hasn't taken jumped to the proverbial "next level." This past Wrestlemania for instance, would have been a glorious opportunity for him to win the MITB. Unfortunately for Benjamin, he could not outperform CM Punk.

The main-event level only for a select few. At some point in his life, Benjamin will have to decide if he wants to be there.

Benjamin can certain talk the talk...but can he walk the walk? I think that remains to be seen.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:11 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Delaney View Post
Benjamin has done a lot to prove himself...lately, but still hasn't taken jumped to the proverbial "next level." This past Wrestlemania for instance, would have been a glorious opportunity for him to win the MITB. Unfortunately for Benjamin, he could not outperform CM Punk.

The main-event level only for a select few. At some point in his life, Benjamin will have to decide if he wants to be there.

Benjamin can certain talk the talk...but can he walk the walk? I think that remains to be seen.
Vintage Michael Cole folks.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:43 PM   #47
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He's BAAAAAAACK!
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:48 PM   #48
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Come come now, H has a higher workrate than Austin. Throwing punches doesn't gas you near as much doing moves. H's wrokrate > Austins.
Austin put in way more effort for most of his career...
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:56 PM   #49
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Well he's talking workRATE. I agree that Austin had more debilitating injuries during his time at top,and that he put on great matches in spite of those. So he very may well have worked harder, but he's just talking the overall workrate I believe.

It's like a marathon. If a healthy guy finishes 5 minutes ahead of a guy with a sprained ankle, he had the better final time. That's just that. But, it doesn't mean the guy with the sprained ankle didn't put in more effort.
I dunno, I'm ranting.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:59 PM   #50
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Triple H will always have my respect since the day he let Jericho put him in the wall with a teared quad.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:02 PM   #51
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Yeah, H's workrate is top notch.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:37 AM   #52
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:39 AM   #53
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*waits for the obligatory "Triple H fucked his way to the top" post*
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:05 AM   #54
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A friend of mine who works at a hotel ran into him once.
He said he was a dick. Some kid came up to him and asked for an autograph and Triple H told him to fuck off. A few seconds later he was like "kid wait..I'll do it..but you got 50 bucks?"
Ever since he told me that..was hard to take the guy seriously. But he has gotten really boring lately..I feel like it's time for more main events. I am tired of watching him fight Orton or Cena.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:15 AM   #55
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If he was heel when that happend that so awesome I don't even know where to begin.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:53 PM   #56
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the only thing hhh really lacks is a really memorable wrestlemania match. sure his match at wm 17 was good, but that mania is remembered for tlc 2 and rock and austin, not hhh-taker. i just feel that a memorable mania match is the only thing that he really needs to add to his resume, nothing against him though, i think he's great
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:53 PM   #57
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also i'm not counting his triple threat with hbk and benoit... that match was for benoit, not hhh
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:48 PM   #58
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Well, Triple H's was WrestleMania X8 but he had the luck of the draw in trying to follow Rock/Hogan.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:58 PM   #59
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well, that and the fact that the match was just average
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post

6. The Rock [c] v. Triple H (Ladder Match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship, WWF Summer Slam 1998)

[/I]
I love this match
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:15 AM   #61
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Triple H is a great wrestler, don't get me wrong, but given how good he is, he's had far more success than he should. The man has won more World Championships in a WWE ring than anyone in history. The next closest to his 13 reigns would be The Rock, with 9. It's not even close. Triple H should then, at least on paper, be the greatest wrestler of all-time. He's not. His career isn't as logical as it should be.

That being said, there is so much to respect about the man. Regardless of how he got there, he's been at the top of the wrestling world for almost a decade now. He has set all the records, and he just recently walked out of the WrestleMania main event as the WWE Champion. Yeah, it's a fixed sport, but it's fixed to work for him.

The man needs an interesting program, and fast. Whether or not that involves a heel turn is debatable. I'm surprised, because Triple H has been a face for like three years now. This is Triple H...the heel of the past decade.

But yeah, I can't remember the last time I watched a Triple H match and thought "that was fucking great." And most of the time I do see them, it's often great because Triple H loses. Sometimes he forgets that.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:17 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike adamle View Post
the only thing hhh really lacks is a really memorable wrestlemania match. sure his match at wm 17 was good, but that mania is remembered for tlc 2 and rock and austin, not hhh-taker. i just feel that a memorable mania match is the only thing that he really needs to add to his resume, nothing against him though, i think he's great
Triple H has been a part of plenty of defining WrestleMania moments. There was the heel turn on X-Pac that people remember, where he joined the Corporation, or whatever. He was the first heel to ever walk out of WrestleMania as the WWE Champion, which was pretty fucking epic. There is the match against Taker that you mentioned, him winning the Undisputed Championship at WrestleMania X-8, and the Triple Threat Match at WrestleMania XX.

It's just that a lot of the other stuff he does at Mania is so bland it drowns it out.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:30 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
And most of the time I do see them, it's often great because Triple H loses. Sometimes he forgets that.
He has been a heel from 1999 to 2001, and then from mid 2002 to 2006. That is the whole point of being a heel, to make it mean something when the babyface beats you.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:35 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Triple H has been a part of plenty of defining WrestleMania moments. There was the heel turn on X-Pac that people remember, where he joined the Corporation, or whatever. He was the first heel to ever walk out of WrestleMania as the WWE Champion, which was pretty fucking epic. There is the match against Taker that you mentioned, him winning the Undisputed Championship at WrestleMania X-8, and the Triple Threat Match at WrestleMania XX.

It's just that a lot of the other stuff he does at Mania is so bland it drowns it out.
WrestleMania XIV vs Owen Hart was a good match.
WrestleMania XIX vs Booker T, it was a good match and people were only pissed because Booker T didn't win (let me guess, Triple H booked that match too?)
WrestleMania 21, he made Batista (who is one of the biggest names in WWE still, Triple H must not have booked this one).
WrestleMania 22, he made a John Cena main event interesting and had the crowd into a match.
WrestleMania XXIV, the triple threat match was very good.
WrestleMania XXV, yes the match was nowhere near what it should have been.

I will agree with you that HHH is not HBK, but to completely disregard Triple H's body of work is absurd.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:49 AM   #65
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HHH's work from 1997-2001 is fantastic. That's "The Game" right there. He was in his prime.
Not that his work since then, and currently, isn't good. It is. He has however lost a step or two since his first quad tear.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:50 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
HHH's work from 1997-2001 is fantastic. That's "The Game" right there. He was in his prime.
Not that his work since then, and currently, isn't good. It is. He has however lost a step or two since his first quad tear.
Really, who would have thought that would happen?
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:27 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Come come now, H has a higher workrate than Austin. Throwing punches doesn't gas you near as much doing moves. H's wrokrate > Austins.
Nah Austin was way more electrifying and entertaining. And when it actually came down to it, and when he had to, was a way better technical wrestler. Watch his heel run in '01.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:11 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
WrestleMania XIV vs Owen Hart was a good match.
WrestleMania XIX vs Booker T, it was a good match and people were only pissed because Booker T didn't win (let me guess, Triple H booked that match too?)
WrestleMania 21, he made Batista (who is one of the biggest names in WWE still, Triple H must not have booked this one).
WrestleMania 22, he made a John Cena main event interesting and had the crowd into a match.
WrestleMania XXIV, the triple threat match was very good.
WrestleMania XXV, yes the match was nowhere near what it should have been.

I will agree with you that HHH is not HBK, but to completely disregard Triple H's body of work is absurd.
I haven't seen Triple H's earlier WrestleMania performances. I'm sure his WrestleMania match against Owen Hart was great. I'm not discounting that, but it's not a replayed WrestleMania moment or anything.

WrestleMania XIX's booking completely soured any quality of the match. Didn't Triple H hit a Pedigree, and takes ages to actually crawl into the cover and get the pin? I couldn't claim for sure whether Triple H did book it, but the best thing for business was for Booker T to go over and look strong, and completely redeem African-Americans in wrestling.

WrestleMania 21 was pretty great. Triple H built up Batista the way he should have built up Randy Orton, but didn't. WrestleMania 22 I don't completely agree with. I thought the idea of Cena/Triple H headling was silly, because Rey Mysterio won the Royal Rumble, and there was no kayfabe reason for Cena/Trips to headline the event. The fans were into it, but to credit that entirely to Triple H? It was Cena-hate fueling that fire.

WrestleMania XXIV might have been a good match, but it couldn't hold my attention. Triple Threats have been overused in World Title matches at WrestleMania, and again I feel the booking screwed over any good the match had built (and yes, finishes do matter). John Cena should have won the WWE Championship. He was undefeated at WrestleMania at this point in time, had won the Royal Rumble, had beaten Orton via DQ at No Way Out, and this was his story to getting the WWE Title back. Not only did Cena not win the match, but the third man, Triple H, didn't even take the pin. And keeping Orton's reign as WWE Champion strong was not the point, because he lost the WWE Title just a month later, anyway.

I'm not discounting the guy's entire body of work. Triple H has some classics to his name. Not every guy can say that. But when it comes to real WrestleMania moments, I'd consider those I mentioned to be his greatest, although I did forget about putting Batista over. That should be in there. Besides that, you've got his really strong matches at WrestleMania, and just his other matches at WrestleMania.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:13 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
He has been a heel from 1999 to 2001, and then from mid 2002 to 2006. That is the whole point of being a heel, to make it mean something when the babyface beats you.
Yes, but you also have to have the babyface beat you. The WWE have protected Triple H far too much in the past. He has gone over when he really shouldn't have, and for some reason, it is far more noticeable when the decision involves Triple H. Usually because it's such a high-profile decision, and someone really misses out, and big opportunities aren't capitalised on.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:15 PM   #70
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I'm curious to see what you do think about Triple H's run in 2002-2004. From his return from quad injury to losing the World Heavyweight Title to Chris Benoit. The reign where the only guys he really put over were Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels.

And I'm not saying that to criticise Triple H. I'll admit, I didn't like him as a character or even as a performer at this point in time. But, specifically once the brand split kicked in, these are considered the "dark ages" of Triple H and politics.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Yes, but you also have to have the babyface beat you. The WWE have protected Triple H far too much in the past. He has gone over when he really shouldn't have, and for some reason, it is far more noticeable when the decision involves Triple H. Usually because it's such a high-profile decision, and someone really misses out, and big opportunities aren't capitalised on.
What are you talking about? HHH held the belt for a long time, and beat a slew of challengers for the belt. This made people want to see him lose the title more.
They used that for him to put over Goldberg, and then Benoit at Wrestlemania.
Later down the road, they used the same thing to have him put over Batista.

He also put over Cena and Hardy, although he didn't hold the title around then.
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:12 PM   #72
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Noid, I can tell you in all honesty, that I believe the HBK/HHH feud was the best fued of this decade.

Also, from 2002-2004 he put over:

Goldberg
Benoit
HBK
Hogan
RVD (he didn't win the title, but he looked real strong and Triple H needed Ric Flair to beat him...thats called getting someone over and still losing)


Also, he had the "luck" of having to carry: Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Goldberg for most of the duration of 2003.

Anyway, here is an article that only Noid would love:


 		I can honestly admit that at one time, as of late actually, I completely despised Triple H. I joined hands with "smarks" across the web in propounding my disgust for this superstar because of his back-stage politics, marriage to Stephanie, talent-squashing ways, blah, blah, blah. I mean I honestly thought I had Paul pinned down as pro-wrestling's anti-Christ and if need be could reel off every excuse in the book for what now seems to be just a blatantly ignorant viewpoint.

What led me to my proverbial "seeing of the light" so-to-speak were two things: first, that at one time I considered HHH to be my favorite wrestler next only to The Rock and second, I recently did some digging for any and all information on the "Cerebral Assassin". Much to my surprise, I was dumb-founded with what I had uncovered.
Seems like Paul Levesque, aka Hunter Hearst-Helmsley aka The Game, is that damn good. However I must credit www.triplehunleashed.com for making me see the error of my ways. Had I not come across this site out of boredom, I may still be among the legions of naysayers who have issues with Levesque and HHH. Gratefully, my once skewed viewpoint has been straightened to a certain degree.

Don't get me wrong, I still had my gripes. The 30-minute promos, the predictable matches, the dominant title reigns: HHH has used all of these tactics much to the chagrin of the avid internet smark. But who hasn't" On top of that, once I really thought about those three factors and how they pertain to the business, those gripes turned to gratitude.

If you want to hate on his promos, at least the guy can get fans to listen, at least he deserves to have a mic in his hand (compared to some of the lackluster orators who find it the epitome of difficulty to even string together a coherent sentence, much less a monologue riveted with passion and intensity). If I had a choice of a heel promo, give me Trip's any day of the week.

If you want to hate on his predictable matches than go ahead and throw Flair, Cena, HBK, Austin, Hogan, Rock, hell, throw 75% of the marquee superstars of this industry into the exact same category because like it or not: when a wrestler is "over" with the fans, they know the fans want to see those signature spots. It's smart money-making.

If you want to hate on his title reigns, then you must really not understand the business as well as you think you do. I don't know about you, but HHH restored so much credibility to the championship that I couldn't wait to see him drop the belt, it made me salivate that much more for a deserving star to grab the ball and run with it. Or would you rather have the days of WCW when the belt meant nothing more than some gold and leather, because it was being switched left and right to undeserving "wrestlers". (David Arquette anyone")

The truth is this: HHH has done his job better than anyone on the current roster, both shows included. Why" Because he's truly made all us smarks hate him, loathe him and BELIEVE IN THE UNDERCARD. That's the whole point of a heel, right" They make us hate them, make us hurl obscenities, even drive us to the point of swearing off wrestling... but we still watch with baited breath for the moment that heel is toppled and makes way for the new blood. HHH is the best heel in the history of this industry because during a time of low ratings and weak buy rates, he has given the belt the legacy it deserves, the respect it commands.

More importantly, Levesque himself is the complete opposite of the character he portrays. While HHH has turned on his friends time and time again for the sake of power (X-Pac, Nash, HBK), Levesque on the other hand supported his friends during the infamous Kliq-Madison Square Garden incident, stood by his decision and took his punishment like a man.

While HHH has a hunger for violence and destruction, Levesque seems like a sincerely "good" person. His "confrontation" with Bill Goldberg at a certain convention was more so Goldberg's immaturity and lack of professionalism to which Levesque laughed off with the best of intentions.

While HHH has had an iron-grip on the title, seemingly reluctant to drop it, Levesque has stated his desire to work with many of today's top workers. He truly believes in a lot of talent out there, but he knows the nature of this business. He knows what draws money and he, despite many insider accounts, sees promise in working with young up-and-comers and looks forward to helping them become a "polished stone".

Trust me, I read a lot on the net about Trip. I've read articles from "insider professionals" which do nothing but spew venom claiming the WWE is heading for disaster because of Levesque's supposed "pull" with Vince. I've read countless entries from smarks saying he's holding people down. I used to believe all this, all because I refused to give him his due. Scores of wrestlers say HHH is everything he claims to be and more. Ric Flair has said, "Triple H is the best wrestler alive in the business today. Coming from me that's about as strong of an assessment there can be." The Undertaker himself said, "Triple H has definitely earned my respect....and uh, you know, I don't throw praise lightly."

And if you honestly believe he's the nail in the WWE's coffin than why not read what many other wrestlers say about him. I mean that should be as close as getting it from the source as us smark's are going to get. If you search, you'll see they respect him for being a dedicated wrestler who has a passion for the industry paralleled by few wrestlers. If you search, read about the kind of work ethic he brings to table, read about the commitment to excellence he harbours, read about the countless number of superstars he's helped create, legacies he's helped preserve. If you search, you'll see a side of HHH that may surprise you, like it did me.

Search and seek, for the truth will set HHH free.

(Article link: http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.co...bernard01.html)
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Old 04-12-2009, 05:39 PM   #73
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:44 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
What are you talking about? HHH held the belt for a long time, and beat a slew of challengers for the belt. This made people want to see him lose the title more.
They used that for him to put over Goldberg, and then Benoit at Wrestlemania.
Later down the road, they used the same thing to have him put over Batista.

He also put over Cena and Hardy, although he didn't hold the title around then.
I disagree. I think people NEEDED to see Triple H lose the World Heavyweight Championship more so than wanted to see it. I'm not saying that Triple H should have lost the belt to any Joe (not Samoa) that challenged him, but there have been so many instances during the period of time I am talking about where a face lost so much momentum because Triple H went over when he really should have lost to them.
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:55 AM   #75
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That's an interesting article, James. I cannot agree that Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels has been the best feud of the decade, but I will concede that it was great stuff. Especially the Street Fight at Summerslam, where Michaels initially wowed us. And the Triple Threat at WrestleMania XX, which was more so about the title than their hate for each other, but it was obvious HBK was trying to take the World Heavyweight Title because he hated Triple H, and knew it would tear him up.

I disagree with some of those people you said The Game put over. I feel that RVD became more of a permanent mid-card act under Triple H, more so than anything. I don't think RVD should have won the World Heavyweight Title from Triple H a month after Triple H first got awarded the belt, or anything, but that Triple H "put over" RVD is a bit of a perspective thing. Also, Chris Benoit was the guy that ended that reign of terror. Triple H dropping the WHT to him was definitely a good thing, but it marks the end of what I want to discuss.

That leaves three men Triple H put over: Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels and Goldberg. They are three of the biggest names in the history of the business. Hogan was undeniably hot in 2002, when the fans in Toronto pretty much made him a relevant figure in professional wrestling against. No one could ignore that. HBK winning the World Title could be seen as a gift to a best friend, as HBK lost the title back to Triple H at the very next PPV.

To be truthful, I don't think one could claim that Goldberg looked good in his WWE run. Say that he was exposed for the fraud that he is all you want, the ending to the Elimination Chamber at Summerslam was bullshit. Goldberg should have given Triple H the Spear and the Jackhammer, but instead The Game defied logic, and all sensibility, and got the pin in like two moves on Goldberg.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:37 AM   #76
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:39 AM   #77
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:56 PM   #78
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i'll just go over his mania matches and kind of show how he still needs that defining wrestlemania moment for himself.

WrestleMania XII- he was squashed in a minute and a half by the returning ultimate warrior in a mania remembered for the iron man match between bret and hbk. warrior also completely no sold the pedigree.

WrestleMania 13- he beat goldust in a 15 minute match that i don't really even remember at a mania remembered for the bret-austin submission match.

WrestleMania XIV- he beat owen in about a 10 minute match to retain the european title. granted, the match was good, but this mania was very much outshined by other things, such as cactus jack & chainsaw charlie's win in a good dumpster match for the tag titles, taker-kane, and of course the first austin world title win.

WrestleMania XV- he lost to kane by dq in a 12 minute match that was average at best. at the end he and chyna joined the corporation and turned heel, but this mania was remembered for austin-rock 1 at mania.

WrestleMania 2000- he retained his wwf title in a fatal 4-way in a very big let down of a match. this mania was highlighted by the triple threat ladder match, not the main event he participated in and won.

WrestleMania X-Seven- he lost a very good 20 minute match to undertaker. it just so happened that this mania was extremely good and it was outshined by austin-rock at mania 2, the tlc match, and you could say shane vs. vince was near outshining it just by it's importance.

WrestleMania X8- he won the undisputed title in a mediocre match with y2j. this was supposed to be his moment, but rock-hogan stole the show and his mania moment.

WrestleMania XIX- he retained the world title against booker t in a match that i personally liked, but the mania was stolen by y2j-hbk, and this match was also outshined by kurt-brock, austin-rock at mania 3, and to a lesser extent hogan-vince

WrestleMania XX- he lost his best mania match and the world title to chris benoit in a triple threat also involving hbk. the match itself was great, but the moment was chris benoit's not hhh's.

WrestleMania 21- he lost the world title to batista and basically made batista who he was, but this mania is remembered for kurt-hbk, and the first mitb, and i guess cena & batista's first world titles to a lesser extent

WrestleMania 22- he lost a title match to cena, this mania was mediocre, but it's remembered for edge-foley, hbk-vince, and maybe rey winning the belt, not hhh

WrestleMania XXIV- he lost a fairly decent wwe title triple threat match at a mania remembered for the nature boy's retirement

WrestleMania XXV- he retained the title in a fairly boring title match at a mania remembered for taker-hbk.

no mania moments for hhh in there
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:16 PM   #79
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I have to disagree. Triple H can claim the WrestleMania XX moment as his own. What made Chris Benoit's title win so impressive, was the match itself, which Triple H was part of. It was also Triple H doing his job as a heel effectively, and putting over a deserving challenger. Triple H tapping out made the world mark out. That is Triple H's moment, too.

I'd also say that Triple H beating Jericho would classify as a WrestleMania moment, as would Triple H joining the Corporation and Triple H winning at WrestleMania 2000.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:08 PM   #80
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yeah but if you think of those respective mania's what's the first thing that comes to mind?

XV- austin with the belt again
X8- the hogan-rock staredown before they actually started wrestling when the crowd was going crazy
XX- benoit and eddie in the ring together with the belts
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