The greatest of all time.

[The One]

Originally Posted by Noid Well, I've always been of the belief that Shawn Michaels is probably the greatest "non-icon" in the history of the business. By that I mean of all the guys that have not really crossed over at all into the mainstream, HBK is probably the greatest and closest to being associated with the sport. Shawn Michaels is a wrestling fan's wrestler, and out of everyone on the list, I think the spot he would contend the most with is that held by Ric Flair. If you watched professional wrestling, you'd have a lot of respect for Ric Flair. If you didn't watch professional wrestling, you probably wouldn't have a clue who he is. Perhaps I put too much stock on how well a guy branches out, but I think it is an effective measuring stick. Shawn Michaels is just the greatest exception to prove the rule. This might be a reason a lot of people to scoff at, but Bret Hart has been featured on The Simpsons. The show has lost its magic over the years, but when you've made it onto The Simpsons, you reach a state of immortality. Bret is also a symbol associated with technical wrestling. There are some answers to subjective questions that can just be considered the correct ones, even if you don't believe them. "Who is the best technical wrestler of all-time?" Bret Hart is an acceptable answer. Roddy Piper has been on films, branched out, and as you said, was a major antagonist to Hulk Hogan. I agree with you, though, I wouldn't put Piper on the list. Maybe not even before Michaels. The Undertaker is the gimmick wrestler. I don't care what anyone says. He's also the premier 300-pounder. You've got Andre as that giant-sized heavyweight, but when it comes to your classic big man, Taker is by far the most iconic. Coming from a younger wrestling fan, too, Taker is also a name you know, even if you don't know wrestling, and are just using it to make fun of the sport. You've got the ridiculous handle-bar mustache promos of a Hulk Hogan, and you've got the ridiculous names and assumed identities of an Undertaker or a Rock. Plus, yes I know it is a fixed sport, but The Undertaker has just won more World Championships and just went over Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania this year. I'm not the biggest fan of the guy, but when it comes to the characters in sports entertainment, Taker deserves a place at the top of the list. As for The Rock, I can understand why some might discount him because of who else was around him, and his relatively short time in the business, but when naming a trio of the biggest draws in professional wrestling, I just cannot list any other three than Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock.

OK, and I see where you're coming from for a lot of this, but let me counter with a couple of points...

When Bret appeared on The Simpsons, it was when he was Champion. From the bottom of my heart, I truly believe someone called over to WWE, said they had an idea for a 10 second joke, and McMahon delivered his champ boy at the time. And on top of that, even with his Simpson cameo, I would wager dollar to penny that if you poled 100 random people who didn't watch wrestling, more would know Michaels than Hart. Honestly, I just think they would. It's kind of impossible to know for sure, but for idle speculation, I'm going with Michaels. It's not a hard leap of faith either since Michaels' career on top has been longer and during times of better business. Not saying Bret couldn't have had it better if his career wasn't cut short, but it happened, and Michaels went on to regain his top spot for another 5 years. It happened that way, and we can only judge on what happened, not what could have happened.

But no matter my personal feelings otherwise, he is received as one of the great technical wrestlers...again, not my cup of tea, but he's won over more people than my loud voice can cover. In the end, it's not markish reaction, it's a thought out analysis, and I think Michaels can easily be regarded as a greater icon of the industry.

Piper I've already covered...so we'll let that one be...

As for Taker. He's a top 10 choice for me. But I just don't see him as being a greater icon for the business than Michaels. This is one of those situations where you could have a hundred debates and it come up 50/50. But he just doesn't bring the total package like Michaels does, IMO.

TOVO Fact: My back hurts.