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Old 05-07-2009, 06:50 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
In all fairness anyone can go from comedic to serious overnight. Just have Marella snap and beat the shit out of someone, and then say he's sick of being used as a comedy mid-card guy who isn't allowed to live up to his full potential.

The only problem with this is that a couple of years down the line he's bound to return to comedy, which then makes everything he said a load of bollocks.
I agree, the only way this could happen is if Santino had a 'curtain jerk' type of shoot where he shits on having to do this Santino Gimmick, and says that he doesn't care what the writers give him, he's gonna earn some respect. and then beats the shit out of the midcard.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Yes he can but I doubt he will.

I hate the whole "denouncing the gimmick" idea though (Sorry 'Noid).

I would have him just keep losing and be the comedy character but get fed up with losing matches and go train to fight. Maybe bring in some semi-famous legit fighter, throw in some comedy vignettes of Santino training for weeks. Eventually he has his big re-debut as a fighter and just tears someone apart all the while, just looking around shocked at his new found skills. Have him just keep the comedy gimmick and surprise himself and everyone else match after match.

I would love to see him keep the gimmick but still somehow be intimidating as hell in the ring. It's far from impossible and would be one of the more intriguing characters in wrestling.

Of course, this won't happen but it would be easy to pull off/awesome.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't think I ever suggested denouncing the gimmick. I think what you suggested is pretty much exactly what I suggested (I used the name "Roberto" as a throw to Bobby Lashley, who started off as Santino's friend). Have him bring the skills in the ring while keeping the character.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:19 PM   #43
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Sort of like Rosie huh?

Rosie got too fat and was a health risk. Thus, his release. Also pretty sure he was on a season of The Biggest Loser to help him lose said fatness.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:24 PM   #44
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I also think Santino could "get better" just from a series of pep talks. Or even a Bob Holly/Cody Rhodes kind of series, where one guy is fed up with watching Santino get smashed week after week when he knows Santino has such potential. Have this person put it in Santino's head that he should stop being a loser and get serious. Ideally, this person -- and I just thought of this -- would be Lance Storm. He could even become Santino's manager for about 3 months, and then go back to his retirement saying "You don't need me anymore". Just a sudden thought. But I think it could work smoothly, Lance or otherwise.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:22 PM   #45
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This is pretty cool, AFTERLIFE
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:27 PM   #46
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Even if he drops the comedy gimmick he is still about half a foot short of being a main eventer by WWE standards.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:39 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest View Post
Even if he drops the comedy gimmick he is still about half a foot short of being a main eventer by WWE standards.
Like Jericho, or Michaels. Or Mysterio.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:45 PM   #48
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Don't forget that Eddie Guerrero guy who never did anything.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:53 PM   #49
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Too late; I have.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:53 PM   #50
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Also, none of them were ever funny.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:18 PM   #51
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SANTINO WILL BE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:21 PM   #52
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What? He's gone to TNA?????
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:29 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
Like Jericho, or Michaels. Or Mysterio.
The list of guys at Santino's height that have gone on to do nothing is much longer than the exceptions you have listed.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:33 PM   #54
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I don't recognise that third name either
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:02 PM   #55
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I think they're referring to Tito Santana
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:35 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest View Post
The list of guys at Santino's height that have gone on to do nothing is much longer than the exceptions you have listed.
That's kind of moot, Theddy. How many people have made it to the top, regardless of weight class, compared to the number of wrestlers that never do? There may not be as many 5 footers as 6 footers, but there's also been more 6 footers in the WWF/E, I would imagine.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:54 PM   #57
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Why is that moot? If you are small you don't get pushed as a main eventer. There are a few exceptions to this and all of those guys were "old school" guys. There is no reason to suppose the WWE will have a change of heart and become more accomodating to the shorter man.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:05 PM   #58
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Also, consider the following: Santino is only over right now because of his comedy. It's pretty risky to take that away and make him a serious character. Look at Kozlov. He's pretty much what Santino would have been if Santino had used his OVW gimmick. Now, obviously Santino wouldn't and couldn't use that exact gimmick now that he's been Santino, but that type of gimmick would be some indication of what Santino would go towards if you nixed his comedic shtick. He's years away from being as good as he would need to be to be over on ability alone.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:06 PM   #59
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Why is that moot? If you are small you don't get pushed as a main eventer. There are a few exceptions to this and all of those guys were "old school" guys. There is no reason to suppose the WWE will have a change of heart and become more accomodating to the shorter man.
I explained why it's moot. Big guys don't get pushed as main eventers just because they're big except freaks like Khali and Andre. Snitsky was big, Earthquake was big, Heidenreich was big; they never got that kind of push. Because there were other big guys, and ones with more talent. The bigger the talent, the better the chance at a push. So saying "there are more littel guys that went nowhere than got titles" is moot because there are also more big guys that went nowhere than got titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest View Post
Also, consider the following: Santino is only over right now because of his comedy. It's pretty risky to take that away and make him a serious character. Look at Kozlov. He's pretty much what Santino would have been if Santino had used his OVW gimmick. Now, obviously Santino wouldn't and couldn't use that exact gimmick now that he's been Santino, but that type of gimmick would be some indication of what Santino would go towards if you nixed his comedic shtick. He's years away from being as good as he would need to be to be over on ability alone.
Why even take the comedy away? Edge and Christian were hilarious, and they were dicks. Successful dicks, at that. Same goes, more recently, for Miz and Morrison. You can make Santino Marella into a serious threat and still be comedic persona.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:30 PM   #61
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It's completely relevant though because for every big guy they don't push, they're pushing another big guy. It still doesn't change the fact that the small guys don't make it up the card. That's the reality. BTW, I'm not saying you have to be in the main event to be "going somewhere." You can have a very lucrative career in the mid-card.

In regards to the comedy, I have no idea what they will do with his character if they try and make him serious. His comedy right now is unlike any of the guys that you have mentioned because he is the butt of every joke. He's basically a Eugene character when it comes to comedy, which is why everyone is saying that in order to make him a serious threat to the main event he needs to toughen up and get a little serious (something that was said about Eugene as well).
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:42 PM   #62
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:20 AM   #63
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Quote:
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It's completely relevant though because for every big guy they don't push, they're pushing another big guy. It still doesn't change the fact that the small guys don't make it up the card. That's the reality. BTW, I'm not saying you have to be in the main event to be "going somewhere." You can have a very lucrative career in the mid-card.

In regards to the comedy, I have no idea what they will do with his character if they try and make him serious. His comedy right now is unlike any of the guys that you have mentioned because he is the butt of every joke. He's basically a Eugene character when it comes to comedy, which is why everyone is saying that in order to make him a serious threat to the main event he needs to toughen up and get a little serious (something that was said about Eugene as well).
But as I said, that's because there are more big wrestlers in general.

Also, when I say "serious threat", I just mean a good wreslter/showman. He doesn't have to pretend to be Mark Henry Angry all the time to be good in the ring.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:37 AM   #64
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I'm still not seeing the point of how his smallness isn't a hindrance. You can paint it any way you want with the ratio of big guys to little guys, but if you consult the WWE record books, I think you will find that not many guys his size have been pushed to the main event.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:43 AM   #65
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In recent history, though, champs have been getting smaller. With the exception of Batista.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:56 AM   #66
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He'll go the way of Val Venus.
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:31 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest View Post
I'm still not seeing the point of how his smallness isn't a hindrance. You can paint it any way you want with the ratio of big guys to little guys, but if you consult the WWE record books, I think you will find that not many guys his size have been pushed to the main event.
I'm not saying it isn't a hindrance. I'm not sure how I led you to think I was. All I was saying is that being small doesn't mean you should give in to cynicism. If you reach into a bag of ten apples and three oranges, chances are you'll get an apple. Likewise, more big men on a roster than little men would suggest there are more big men as champs.

All I'm really getting at is that anyone can end up at the top if they've got the right talent and the right moment.
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:32 AM   #68
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In recent history, though, champs have been getting smaller. With the exception of Batista.
And Kane and Henry and Big Show and Cena and Edge.
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Old 05-08-2009, 03:38 PM   #69
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Like Jericho, or Michaels. Or Mysterio.
Or there's that Kurt Angle guy...

Didn't he have some sort of legit background too? Hmm...
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Old 05-08-2009, 04:54 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
I'm not saying it isn't a hindrance. I'm not sure how I led you to think I was. All I was saying is that being small doesn't mean you should give in to cynicism. If you reach into a bag of ten apples and three oranges, chances are you'll get an apple. Likewise, more big men on a roster than little men would suggest there are more big men as champs.

All I'm really getting at is that anyone can end up at the top if they've got the right talent and the right moment.
But all this stuff about it being statistics that more big men have ended up as champion because more big guys have been on the roster overall, while true, is misleading because guys aren't pushed to the main event by Vince reaching into a bag of apples.

There is a long line of guys with potential to be in the MVP before Santino. They're not Batista big, but they're bigger than Santino, and they're young enough and just as skilled that I think it's another reason to factor in when considering whether or not Santino will make it to the main event or just be used as a stepping stone for other people.
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:49 PM   #71
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No
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:50 PM   #72
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...and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:39 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife View Post
And Kane and Henry and Big Show and Cena and Edge.
Edge isn't big.

Cena, despite being muscular, doesn't completely have the "big" feel.

Kane and Henry were ECW champs which doesn't count for anything.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:42 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest View Post
But all this stuff about it being statistics that more big men have ended up as champion because more big guys have been on the roster overall, while true, is misleading because guys aren't pushed to the main event by Vince reaching into a bag of apples.
It was a metaphor, Theddy. There's no intent to mislead, it's strictly pointing out statistics. Vince can push any talented guy he wants of any size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedamndest
There is a long line of guys with potential to be in the MVP before Santino. They're not Batista big, but they're bigger than Santino, and they're young enough and just as skilled that I think it's another reason to factor in when considering whether or not Santino will make it to the main event or just be used as a stepping stone for other people.

I'm not saying Santino WILL make it. I'm saying he COULD. He clearly has the connection with the fans and can work the room, which is a step above most guys, let alone most guys with his tenure and win/loss ratio. Of course his size is a setback, but presuming that he'll never make it on that lone factor is where I throw a flag.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:43 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Edge isn't big.

Cena, despite being muscular, doesn't completely have the "big" feel.

Kane and Henry were ECW champs which doesn't count for anything.
Yes, I often forget that Edge is so tiny.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:51 PM   #76
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Yes, I often forget that Edge is so tiny.
It's cause a lot of times he holds his arms up in the air, making him appear larger than he actually is.
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:21 AM   #77
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lol. Isn't Edge like 6' 5"?
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:27 AM   #78
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Edge isn't someone I would call small, but for his height, wrestling-wise, he is quite light.

I don't get where this size thing is really coming from. I mean, granted, it may be an obstacle, but it's not one that cannot be climbed over. Especially if a guy has enough talent and backing to get past it.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:35 AM   #79
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I think that he should actually start wrestling in mid-card feuds instead of Diva feuds. He could drop part of the comedic gimmick but keep mis-pronouncing people's names. Get a few wins under his belt, he could get a little bit cocky and easily transition into a "Rock" like entertainer.
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:54 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Edge isn't someone I would call small, but for his height, wrestling-wise, he is quite light.

I don't get where this size thing is really coming from. I mean, granted, it may be an obstacle, but it's not one that cannot be climbed over. Especially if a guy has enough talent and backing to get past it.
It'll be hard to climb over the size factor when everyone else is gonna be climbing over him.

No, seriously, mid-carder for life.
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