Hypothetical: 3 Character Fighting Game

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-29-2009, 11:35 AM

Let's say there was a 3D fighting game with only three characters total. Just three. Here's the thing, though: Each character would have over 100 moves with well over 30 pre-set strings and a 'limited' juggle system on top of that. The three characters would be extensively customizable complete with gender change and skin tone options (but the move lists would stay the same).

The first character would have a 'well rounded' move set (and be the poster boy, I guess). The second character would have a 'speedy defensive' move set (having the weakest attacks), and the last would have a 'slower offensive' move set (having the strongest attacks).

I thought of this on and off for months now. A fighting game with three characters would be easy to balance, dare I say perfect balance out of the box (or after a single update). The editing system should stave off the fact that there is only three characters (but really, it seems that way anyway with comp in most fighters). This kills the tier-list gayness and forces people to examine the game's engine and character's move lists. I think it would bring the fighting game genre closer to chess than before.

Online versus would be the primary draw, of course, and I think something like this would be best released as a downloadable title. But the possible depth is intriguing to me. What do you guys think? This is the sort of project I'd definitely keep in mind.

**Kane Knight** · 11-29-2009, 02:17 PM

I hate to be a "Debbie Downer," but no.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-29-2009, 02:25 PM

**Fignuts** · 11-29-2009, 02:29 PM

Yeah, it would get old really fast.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-29-2009, 02:36 PM

With the appearance options and a deep movelist/game engine I was hoping core gamers would be able to extend the game-life via constant, evolving contest. I'm really looking toward chess for inspiration (and that's two people playing the same character with little over two-dozen attack - but a wealth of depth and strategy).

I guess fighting gamers would need to weigh in and brainstorm the set-up. It's a lot more complicated than you think and certain concepts would go over the head of... non fighting gamers. I'd love to see it in practice.

**HeartBreakMan2k** · 11-29-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD

With the appearance options and a deep movelist/game engine I was hoping core gamers would be able to extend the game-life via constant, evolving contest. I'm really looking toward chess for inspiration (and that's two people playing the same character with little over two-dozen attack - but a wealth of depth and strategy).

I guess fighting gamers would need to weigh in and brainstorm the set-up. It's a lot more complicated than you think and certain concepts would go over the head of... non fighting gamers. I'd love to see it in practice.

It's a a good parallel, but even in chess there are more than 3 characters.

**Khuntry** · 11-29-2009, 02:51 PM

I think most people would automatically dismiss this due to the lack of "variety" in their point of view. I dare you to post this on SRK.

**Emperor Smeat** · 11-29-2009, 02:58 PM

If these fighters could be completely customizable, would make sense to have an extra slot for a created character done by the user to bring the roster up to 4 characters. Only issue would be how much time would people be willing to keep customizing the game to stay fresh. Most would rather pick up and play the game or learn a small set of moves and go from there.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-29-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeartBreakMan2k

It's a a good parallel, but even in chess there are more than 3 characters.

Well actually I think you're essentially one character and the pieces symbolize the moves. Pawns would be standards and the higher ranked pieces would be special moves. This is a better comparison between chess and fighting games, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khuntry

I think most people would automatically dismiss this due to the lack of "variety" in their point of view. I dare you to post this on SRK.

Pfft, did that out of curiosity already. Replies should be interesting.

Also, there's a reason I went for a deep movelist and an appearance edit feature. Think about how different two people play the same character in Street Fighter, and that series has the smallest move list per character in any fighter. I think a character with over 100 moves could be played several different ways by itself.

I see plenty variety, but I admittingly do so as somebody with 'the eye' toward fighters.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-29-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball

If these fighters could be completely customizable, would make sense to have an extra slot for a created character done by the user to bring the roster up to 4 characters. Only issue would be how much time would people be willing to keep customizing the game to stay fresh. Most would rather pick up and play the game or learn a small set of moves and go from there.

I thought of that, but people quite simply can't be trusted to create a move-list in a game where you want to stress balance. I do have ideas on allowing such a feature while keeping the game balanced, but the ideas are pretty much move-list restrictions that people will not like. I rather not do it at all. A big mistake developers get caught up in is doing something half-ass trying to please most and ending up displeasing most. I believe in focusing on your initial goals and nailing it.

**Nowhere Man** · 11-29-2009, 03:15 PM

I could possibly see this working as an XBLA title. My only real question is how the hell you have over 100 moves per character. I mean, there are only so many button-combinations you can do.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-29-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man

I could possibly see this working as an XBLA title. My only real question is how the hell you have over 100 moves per character. I mean, there are only so many button-combinations you can do.

Button, button analog combinations, macros, analog macros combinations, double tab button, double tab macro, motion button, motion macro...

8 directions (plus neutral) and four buttons? Yeah, we can hit 100+ trust me.

**Swiss Ultimate** · 11-29-2009, 05:12 PM

Instead of 3 "characters", how about 3 fighting disciplines. I like the idea of being able to customize your own character, I think that should be the selling point. It'd be cool if you could create their backstory and whatnot in-game. All the cliches would be there for you to choose, "orphaned in the jungle and raised by tiger sharks", "blasted with radioactive cannon", "parents killed by the leader of a gang of supernatural ninjas" etc.

It'd be cool also, if when fighting, the game would automatically create your opponent using those random features. You'd have the option to save the character the game created if you so desired. You'd basically never fight the same guy twice. You could even go in and create all your opponents before going into the game and perhaps stringing together a storyline with various sets, fighters, backstory etc.

**Funky Fly** · 11-29-2009, 06:43 PM

Interesting concept, but human nature wouldn't allow it. That said, it'd be big in Japan, guaranteed.

**LuigiD** · 11-29-2009, 06:47 PM

As others have said, curious concept. I personally would not care at all. For example, if someone gave me a wrestling game that has 5 wrestlers with 70 moves each and one with 50 wrestlers but each with 5. I think I would go for the 50.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-30-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss

All the cliches would be there for you to choose, "orphaned in the jungle and raised by tiger sharks", "blasted with radioactive cannon", "parents killed by the leader of a gang of supernatural ninjas" etc.

These are cliches? Of what genre? lol

Quote:

It'd be cool also, if when fighting, the game would automatically create your opponent using those random features. You'd have the option to save the character the game created if you so desired. You'd basically never fight the same guy twice. You could even go in and create all your opponents before going into the game and perhaps stringing together a storyline with various sets, fighters, backstory etc.

Haven't thought of that, random generated enemies. What would help is differing AI routines during fights. Dare I say something like the Director program in L4D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funky Fly

Interesting concept, but human nature wouldn't allow it. That said, it'd be big in Japan, guaranteed.

I need to head out to Japan.

Query: Does Japan have access to Western XNA games?

**Kane Knight** · 11-30-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD

Well actually I think you're essentially one character and the pieces symbolize the moves. Pawns would be standards and the higher ranked pieces would be special moves. This is a better comparison between chess and fighting games, I think.

And we all know how well Chess video games sell. Halo Killers, all of them.

I mean, it's an interesting analogy and a fair point, but we are talking about different media. Checkers only has one character, two types of pieces, and a limited "moveset" but That doesn't mean a one-button fighter with one character would sell.

**Kalyx triaD** · 11-30-2009, 01:29 PM

I wouldn't expect this game to be commercially successful. I'm going for something... more.

*Eye twinkles*

**Swiss Ultimate** · 11-30-2009, 05:23 PM

You know, I was thinking more about it. If this was a story-driven fighting game, where you never decisively defeat the enemies, you could really get away with only having three pre-designed characters, especially if one or more of them changed slightly (ie. mutation, battle-scars, even if it was just their mood that changed).

Scenario: You defeat your generic enemy but, before finishing him he makes a narrow escape and falls into a vat of toxic chemicals. You fight another character twice before he returns as a mutated beast with updated moves, combos and special abilities.

**Kalyx triaD** · 12-01-2009, 03:22 PM

Don't think I'd be doing that...

**.44 Magdalene** · 12-01-2009, 04:25 PM

Doesn't Tekken already have some close to a hundred moves per character, whole customizable outfits with individual parts, and quite a bit more than three characters?

**.44 Magdalene** · 12-01-2009, 04:26 PM

And Tekken 6 is pretty crazy balanced, from what I hear.

**Kalyx triaD** · 12-01-2009, 04:33 PM

Tekken counts sequences as moves, I wouldn't. The editing system I'm thinking of is closer to SvR's scope than Tekken.

And I'm not out to make the most balanced game ever, this is something of particular idea. I'm trying to delve into the 'art of fighting', analyzing how two people dissect each other through a very basic set up.

It's not for everyone.

**Kalyx triaD** · 12-01-2009, 04:33 PM

How are you enjoying Tekken 6, by the way?

**Indifferent Clox** · 12-03-2009, 10:12 PM

this would be good if it was a storyline based game like jade empire

**Funky Fly** · 12-03-2009, 11:29 PM

We get Jap XNA titles, so no reason they don't get ours.

**Kalyx triaD** · 12-03-2009, 11:46 PM

It's a fighting game, Clox. Jade Empire is an RPG. A deep one.

**Indifferent Clox** · 12-03-2009, 11:58 PM

yes but if you could mesh the fighting game with some story elements, that would make it cool to play with one charecter, it'd be great.

**Kalyx triaD** · 12-04-2009, 12:16 AM

It can have story elements, but nowhere near as deep as Jade Empire. Blazblue had a decent story mode.

With this game's premise being based around the gameplay, it may not have room for individual stories anyway.

11-29-2009, 11:35 AM	#1
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	Hypothetical: 3 Character Fighting Game Let's say there was a 3D fighting game with only three characters total. Just three. Here's the thing, though: Each character would have over 100 moves with well over 30 pre-set strings and a 'limited' juggle system on top of that. The three characters would be extensively customizable complete with gender change and skin tone options (but the move lists would stay the same). The first character would have a 'well rounded' move set (and be the poster boy, I guess). The second character would have a 'speedy defensive' move set (having the weakest attacks), and the last would have a 'slower offensive' move set (having the strongest attacks). I thought of this on and off for months now. A fighting game with three characters would be easy to balance, dare I say perfect balance out of the box (or after a single update). The editing system should stave off the fact that there is only three characters (but really, it seems that way anyway with comp in most fighters). This kills the tier-list gayness and forces people to examine the game's engine and character's move lists. I think it would bring the fighting game genre closer to chess than before. Online versus would be the primary draw, of course, and I think something like this would be best released as a downloadable title. But the possible depth is intriguing to me. What do you guys think? This is the sort of project I'd definitely keep in mind.

11-29-2009, 02:17 PM	#2
Kane Knight Ron Paul 4 EVA Posts: 152,467	I hate to be a "Debbie Downer," but no.

11-29-2009, 02:25 PM	#3
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951

11-29-2009, 02:29 PM	#4
Fignuts Hey Mister! Posts: 54,952	Yeah, it would get old really fast.

11-29-2009, 02:36 PM	#5
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	With the appearance options and a deep movelist/game engine I was hoping core gamers would be able to extend the game-life via constant, evolving contest. I'm really looking toward chess for inspiration (and that's two people playing the same character with little over two-dozen attack - but a wealth of depth and strategy). I guess fighting gamers would need to weigh in and brainstorm the set-up. It's a lot more complicated than you think and certain concepts would go over the head of... non fighting gamers. I'd love to see it in practice.

11-29-2009, 02:51 PM	#7
Khuntry Maverick Hunter Posts: 525	I think most people would automatically dismiss this due to the lack of "variety" in their point of view. I dare you to post this on SRK.

11-29-2009, 02:58 PM	#8
Emperor Smeat Former TPWW Royalty Posts: 66,674	If these fighters could be completely customizable, would make sense to have an extra slot for a created character done by the user to bring the roster up to 4 characters. Only issue would be how much time would people be willing to keep customizing the game to stay fresh. Most would rather pick up and play the game or learn a small set of moves and go from there.

11-29-2009, 03:15 PM	#11
Nowhere Man Now. Here. Man. Posts: 8,370	I could possibly see this working as an XBLA title. My only real question is how the hell you have over 100 moves per character. I mean, there are only so many button-combinations you can do.

11-29-2009, 05:12 PM	#13
Swiss Ultimate Amazon Affiliate Posts: 42,694	Instead of 3 "characters", how about 3 fighting disciplines. I like the idea of being able to customize your own character, I think that should be the selling point. It'd be cool if you could create their backstory and whatnot in-game. All the cliches would be there for you to choose, "orphaned in the jungle and raised by tiger sharks", "blasted with radioactive cannon", "parents killed by the leader of a gang of supernatural ninjas" etc. It'd be cool also, if when fighting, the game would automatically create your opponent using those random features. You'd have the option to save the character the game created if you so desired. You'd basically never fight the same guy twice. You could even go in and create all your opponents before going into the game and perhaps stringing together a storyline with various sets, fighters, backstory etc.

11-29-2009, 06:43 PM	#14
Funky Fly The Satanic Mechanic Posts: 52,521	Interesting concept, but human nature wouldn't allow it. That said, it'd be big in Japan, guaranteed.

11-29-2009, 06:47 PM	#15
LuigiD Posts: 1,920	As others have said, curious concept. I personally would not care at all. For example, if someone gave me a wrestling game that has 5 wrestlers with 70 moves each and one with 50 wrestlers but each with 5. I think I would go for the 50.

11-30-2009, 01:29 PM	#18
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	I wouldn't expect this game to be commercially successful. I'm going for something... more. Eye twinkles

11-30-2009, 05:23 PM	#19
Swiss Ultimate Amazon Affiliate Posts: 42,694	You know, I was thinking more about it. If this was a story-driven fighting game, where you never decisively defeat the enemies, you could really get away with only having three pre-designed characters, especially if one or more of them changed slightly (ie. mutation, battle-scars, even if it was just their mood that changed). Scenario: You defeat your generic enemy but, before finishing him he makes a narrow escape and falls into a vat of toxic chemicals. You fight another character twice before he returns as a mutated beast with updated moves, combos and special abilities.

12-01-2009, 03:22 PM	#20
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	Don't think I'd be doing that...

12-01-2009, 04:25 PM	#21
.44 Magdalene Smitten for Kittens Posts: 3,814	Doesn't Tekken already have some close to a hundred moves per character, whole customizable outfits with individual parts, and quite a bit more than three characters?

12-01-2009, 04:26 PM	#22
.44 Magdalene Smitten for Kittens Posts: 3,814	And Tekken 6 is pretty crazy balanced, from what I hear.

12-01-2009, 04:33 PM	#23
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	Tekken counts sequences as moves, I wouldn't. The editing system I'm thinking of is closer to SvR's scope than Tekken. And I'm not out to make the most balanced game ever, this is something of particular idea. I'm trying to delve into the 'art of fighting', analyzing how two people dissect each other through a very basic set up. It's not for everyone.

12-03-2009, 10:12 PM	#25
Indifferent Clox emerge Posts: 16,710	this would be good if it was a storyline based game like jade empire

12-03-2009, 11:29 PM	#26
Funky Fly The Satanic Mechanic Posts: 52,521	We get Jap XNA titles, so no reason they don't get ours.

12-03-2009, 11:46 PM	#27
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	It's a fighting game, Clox. Jade Empire is an RPG. A deep one.

12-03-2009, 11:58 PM	#28
Indifferent Clox emerge Posts: 16,710	yes but if you could mesh the fighting game with some story elements, that would make it cool to play with one charecter, it'd be great.

12-04-2009, 12:16 AM	#29
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,951	It can have story elements, but nowhere near as deep as Jade Empire. Blazblue had a decent story mode. With this game's premise being based around the gameplay, it may not have room for individual stories anyway.