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Old 12-14-2009, 12:48 AM   #41
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I think the idea is that Cena fell, instead of being pushed off, and somehow their gonna incorporate that into a 'you never actually BEAT me' kinda angle.
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:48 AM   #42
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Folks, if you think that two people falling from the same place at the same time are going to simultaneously hit two objects at different heights off the ground, well then science just isn't for you.
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:50 AM   #43
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Galileo would agree.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:50 AM   #44
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Galileo as RAW Guest Host.

I'm glad Sheamus won. I do think there are more deserving guys warranting pushes. I mean, Sheamus isn't even that big -- it's not like he's getting a push just for that. However, I do like Sheamus, and this is at least fresh. I've got no clue where the WWE are going to go with this, but we can now call Sheamus a WWE Champion. They've successfully created a new main event star.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:03 AM   #45
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Putting the belt on someone isn't successfully creating a new main event star. If that were the case they could churn them out weekly. Just like WCW did at the end right?

New main event stars are created when someone gets over with the crowd, becomes recognizable to people, and they are able to consistently deliver in a main event role. They possess credibility, recognition, and drawing power.
Stone Cold Steve Austin is a main event star. The Rock is a main event star. Shit, John Cena is a main event star.
Just because you throw the strap on Sheamus and Khali doesn't make them main event stars.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:08 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Putting the belt on someone isn't successfully creating a new main event star. If that were the case they could churn them out weekly. Just like WCW did at the end right?

New main event stars are created when someone gets over with the crowd, becomes recognizable to people, and they are able to consistently deliver in a main event role. They possess credibility, recognition, and drawing power.
Stone Cold Steve Austin is a main event star. The Rock is a main event star. Shit, John Cena is a main event star.
Just because you throw the strap on Sheamus and Khali doesn't make them main event stars.
I define a main event star as someone who works the main event. You are talking about draws, Jeri. They are much rarer.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:11 AM   #47
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No I'm talking about "WWE creating a main event star". How is putting a prop on them creating a star? Creating a star is building a talent who can be consistently credible in the main event. People need to buy it. If Sheamus was a created main event star why would the building be in silence when he won? Shock doesn't seem like the emotion you feel when a main eventer wins a title.

Remember the crowd's feelings when Brock Lesnar was going for his first title against their former favorite wrestler? THAT'S creating a main event star.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:15 AM   #48
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Still, Sheamus could end up being a legitimate main event star. I kinda doubt it, but he definitely could. If he does, however, it will have to do with the way they push him week in and week out, and not about them throwing the strap on him one winter night
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:53 AM   #49
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Noid you are a wee bit obtuse sometimes mon ami. Gotta think outside the box.

Sorry if it seems harsh, but use your head a bit
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:54 AM   #50
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Honestly I'd rather Sheamus was champ than Cena, HHH or Randy Orton right now.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:27 AM   #51
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Does this mean that Jamie Knoble is going to return soon and challenge for the world title in revenge for being 'retired' a few weeks ago?
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:13 AM   #52
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Honestly I'd rather Sheamus was champ than Cena, HHH or Randy Orton right now.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:28 AM   #53
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I have seen a lot of Sheamus's work in FCW, he is the goods man. Good on the mic and in the ring. And backstage apparently.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:42 AM   #54
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Galileo as RAW Guest Host.

I'm glad Sheamus won. I do think there are more deserving guys warranting pushes. I mean, Sheamus isn't even that big -- it's not like he's getting a push just for that. However, I do like Sheamus, and this is at least fresh. I've got no clue where the WWE are going to go with this, but we can now call Sheamus a WWE Champion. They've successfully created a new main event star.
With a special cameo appearance by...

Ya know to explain to us all about this "gravity" crap.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:28 AM   #55
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Honestly, I'm just hoping this win was more than just a way to get Orton back in the title picture since Cena isn't champ again. Picture it this way. Orton/Sheamus at the Rumble. If it happens, then we all know who will win the Rumble itself. Fucking Cena. Granted this doesn't mean he'll go after Sheamus, but it's the likely outcome. I'd love it more if Kofi won the rumble and fought at Mania, but I have a feeling they'll put him in the MITB and he'll be the favorite to win, since Punk is pretty much up shit creek it seems these days, but who knows. The joys of WWE booking.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:32 AM   #56
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No I'm talking about "WWE creating a main event star". How is putting a prop on them creating a star? Creating a star is building a talent who can be consistently credible in the main event. People need to buy it. If Sheamus was a created main event star why would the building be in silence when he won? Shock doesn't seem like the emotion you feel when a main eventer wins a title.

Remember the crowd's feelings when Brock Lesnar was going for his first title against their former favorite wrestler? THAT'S creating a main event star.
We're just talking semantics. Right now, Sheamus is the guy. In kayfabe, as WWE Champion, he is the top guy in the WWE. Well, on par with The Undertaker I'd say. Sure, let's say Sheamus loses the WWE Title tomorrow. He'll always be a "former WWE Champion." He'll always have an excuse to go after the title again. He'll never be a guy that "never made it to the top."

I'm not saying that the guy is going to headline WrestleMania, get the best reactions out of anyone on the show or even put asses in seats. But the guy is a "main eventer" by sheer definition that he is a World Champion. There is no doubt in my mind that the man still needs to grow on the fans and as a character, in general -- but putting the WWE Title on the guy implies that quite a few people in the company have a hard one for him.

Are there better ways to have built the man? Surely. But the guy just became the 40th WWE Champion in history. I'm not saying that his reign instantly makes him the greatest legend in WWE history, but the dude does not look out of place in WWE main events, if you ask me.
Last edited by Mr. Nerfect; 12-14-2009 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:35 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Honestly, I'm just hoping this win was more than just a way to get Orton back in the title picture since Cena isn't champ again. Picture it this way. Orton/Sheamus at the Rumble. If it happens, then we all know who will win the Rumble itself. Fucking Cena. Granted this doesn't mean he'll go after Sheamus, but it's the likely outcome. I'd love it more if Kofi won the rumble and fought at Mania, but I have a feeling they'll put him in the MITB and he'll be the favorite to win, since Punk is pretty much up shit creek it seems these days, but who knows. The joys of WWE booking.
My guess is that Cena will win the Rumble, but he'll use that win to face The Undertaker or Batista at WrestleMania. Hopefully The Undertaker. It's just more of a money match. Cena vs. Batista has the same appeal everywhere it goes, but Cena vs. Taker gets an added boost from the streak. The face vs. face dynamic creates intrigue, too.

I feel that Sheamus will drop the WWE Title either at the Rumble or Elimination Chamber to either Triple H or Shawn Michaels, while the other wins RAW's Elimination Chamber to challenge for the WWE Title at WrestleMania.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #58
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There's no way this was an accident.
This
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:51 AM   #59
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Well they could potentially build on this any way they wanted. At least Sheamus isn't just a one PPV title opportunity/filler and then forgotten forever. Even if Cena wins the title back next PPV, at least Sheamus has something added to his character. They could even build Sheamus up as a guy that Cena can't beat.

Cena might have a rematch against Sheamus at Royal Rumble or he could have one tonight on Raw. If they go to the instant rematch at Raw, they could have Cena lose again and thus not get a title shot at Royal Rumble. Sheamus could have a match against someone like Michaels for instance. Have Cena interfere and cost Sheamus the title. If Cena screwed Sheamus out of the title, Sheamus would lose the title with his credibility still in tact. Then later have Sheamus run in and cost Cena the title/have Sheamus enter and have them in a double elimination. They could build that up to Wrestlemania where Cena eventually wins.

However, I'm not sure if interest will hold out/that's the best way for the company to use Cena. I kinda get the feeling that Cena will challenge at Royal Rumble, possibly lose and then end up with a celebrity like Wrestlemania/top drawing (like Undertaker as mentioned by others) match and then come back for Sheamus at a later date. There are plenty possibilities anyway, we shall see.
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Old 12-14-2009, 11:04 AM   #60
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The idea of Sheamus being Cena's "kryptonite" is a good, I feel. If they have Sheamus constantly one-up Cena, there could be quite the pay-off in Cena eventually defeating Sheamus.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:10 PM   #61
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Whatever happens, even if Sheamus winds up being a huge failure, WWE have managed to put that unpredictability factor back in their programming. For at least a while when people think there's no way someone can win, they'll have that "yeah but remember that time Sheamus won" in the back of their minds.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:25 PM   #62
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I hope Sheamus causes Cena to turn heel at 1/4. Maybe this is the payoff Vince has been building up to these last 6 years, and we will all praise it as the greatest storyline of all time when it is revealed that all the shitty angles were part of one big angle.


cough
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:47 PM   #63
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I doubt Cena will turn heel soon at all due to the fact that when Austin turned heel they regretted the hell out of that.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:51 PM   #64
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If this leads to a Cena heel turn I am all for it now especially if there is a chance he could feuding with The Rock it could be a great program.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:23 PM   #65
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I just watched the finish on youtube. I love Lawlers reaction to cole. "It looked like Cena was trying to suplex Sheamus through the table. I done know if he was pushed or just slipped."

Yes...because when you slip off the top rope while trying to suplex someone you obviously shoot half way across the ring.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:27 PM   #66
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Cena saying 'never again' at the camera as he walked off puts lots of doubts in my mind about this. Didn't seem part of the script, especially as Cole tried to make out he said 'never forget'.

His whole demeanor after the match was just...well...not character Cena. He seemed genuinely pissed, perhaps at having to drop the title to Sheamus. Or perhaps he doesn't like table matches and felt that he was very close to injury, which is why he picked up the bit of the table. I don't know. Just seemed a bit off-key the whole post-match segment.

As for the commentators, I get the impression they aren't always told the results of the match these days, I seem to reall the WWE saying this a while back. Lawlers shocked face in the background kinda said that to me. Either that, or it was a fuck up. Which imo, couldn't have been the case as it was truely a stupid attempt to do a double table crash from that position.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:28 PM   #67
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It wasn't a botched finish.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:33 PM   #68
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Addy, Cena is clearly in a gimmick transition. That's why Cena seemed different. The end of the match matches what he's been saying and how he's been acting the past few weeks.

Can't believe there are marks in this day and age. Especially going back and looking at it, it's clearly not a "botch", by any stretch.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:33 PM   #69
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Watch it. Cena clearly jumps back to hit the table. If it wasn't the planned finish he would have tried to save it by NOT hitting the table.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:37 PM   #70
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Addy, Cena is clearly in a gimmick transition. That's why Cena seemed different.
We'll see. Not sure I'm buying a Cena heel turn just yet.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:37 PM   #71
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I don't think that's what people are saying though. They seem to be talking about whether or not Sheamus was supposed to go through the table on the outside that he barely missed, making it a contreversial finish of some kind

disclaimer: I don't neccessarily think this, I'm just clarifying it
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:41 PM   #72
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Given how quickly they played his music and awarded him his belt, and the way in which things went down, I think its fairly clear it was real.
Then there's a whole other can of worms entitled common sense. I mean, come on. At this stage in the game I think the WWE knows how to do damage control on a botched finish. If Cena was supposed to leave that arena with the WWE title, he would have left that arena with the WWE title.

Theres a worked angle involving re-starting a match, or reversing a decision like every few weeks in the WWE. What would stop them from doing it to keep the strap on their golden boy going into the most important time of the year?
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:42 PM   #73
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Wow, I missed that.

Okay, yeah, that's pretty controversial there. If anything, he did bring the table down, so they can still go with the fact that the table *should* have broken. Assuming this was the planned finish, which I sort of doubt.

If it was SUPPOSED to be that, it would have happened the same in terms of reactions, I'm sure.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:49 PM   #74
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I think there may have been a botch of some kind with the finish, but it's inconsequential because I think either way Sheamus was going to leave with the title. The reason I think that is because of how quickly they crowned him and how smoothly the aftermath went.
Like I said, if they wanted Cena champ they'd have done something. At the very least there would have been some awkward confusion surrounding the finish/announcment.

So yea, I'm guessing that IF there was a botch there, that it was going to be a "too close to call finish" in which they both went through tables at virtually the same time.
Post-match, they would go to instant replay and it would show that Cena went through his table first because it was a shorter fall.
They'd say Sheamus fell through a split second after him, and he'd get the title.

That's my theory
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:52 PM   #75
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I agree. It's the same finish, they just need to twist some words to get it to where they need it to be. Again, assuming this is the case.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:55 PM   #76
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The photo finish is always a risky one. Seems to get botched all the time. This one seems more botch-prone than the classic double cage match finish in which one wrestler crawls out the door before the climber falls to the ground
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:55 PM   #77
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I'm suprised the Rumble finish has never been botched
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:59 PM   #78
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Cena/Batista's Rumble was a botch, no?
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:01 PM   #79
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Quote:
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Cena saying 'never again' at the camera as he walked off puts lots of doubts in my mind about this. Didn't seem part of the script, especially as Cole tried to make out he said 'never forget'.
Come on, this is the same guy who signed off the PPV last night saying "We've got 2 words for you: goodnight!"
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:06 PM   #80
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Cena/Batista's Rumble was a botch, no?
I don't think so. Just the part where Vince ran out and tore both of his quads getting in the ring
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