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Old 02-12-2010, 07:56 PM   #1281
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Frank Thomas is a first ballot HOFer

521 HRs
2 MVPs
1 ring
15th all time in OPS
.301 lifetime batting average

Also he had no steroid implications at all and spoke out against steroids, as well as worked with Senator Mitchell. That will gain him a lot of points.

He played about 55 percent of his games as a DH so I guess THAT'S the argument but whatever. Ridiculously good hitter. Was reading this article today and his numbers through age 30 are basically the same as Albert Pujols' numbers at age 30 (Pujols being 30 now). Frank Thomas tailed off a decent amount but he had a bunch of great years after he turned 30 as well and ultimately remained a very productive player.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:13 PM   #1282
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I will never understand Hall of Fame voting.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:18 PM   #1283
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They like the whole "Dominted his era" deal.

Big Hurt was arguably the best offensive force in the MLB from 93-98
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:35 PM   #1284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor View Post
Frank Thomas is a first ballot HOFer

521 HRs
2 MVPs
1 ring
15th all time in OPS
.301 lifetime batting average

Also he had no steroid implications at all and spoke out against steroids, as well as worked with Senator Mitchell. That will gain him a lot of points.

He played about 55 percent of his games as a DH so I guess THAT'S the argument but whatever. Ridiculously good hitter. Was reading this article today and his numbers through age 30 are basically the same as Albert Pujols' numbers at age 30 (Pujols being 30 now). Frank Thomas tailed off a decent amount but he had a bunch of great years after he turned 30 as well and ultimately remained a very productive player.
Big Hurt was hurt in '05 and unfortunately never got to play in the World Series, even though he technically has a ring.

Regardless he should be a first ballot, but if Larkin and Alomar weren't first ballot selections he might not make it his first time either. Still was a top-10 hitter in the entire decade of the '90s without the help of PED's.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:42 PM   #1285
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Damn, 2014 ballot is going to have Maddux, Glavine, Mussina, Kent, and Thomas on it.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:52 AM   #1286
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Maddux is a 1st ballot. Glavine too. Muss is not a HOF. blyleveyn is way ahead of him.

Kent is borderline, maybe he makes it after year one.

Thomas is a hands down 1st ballot.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:55 AM   #1287
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PS big Hurt would be a 3 time MVP if not for giambis roids.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:29 PM   #1288
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Jeff Kent was a racist.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:49 PM   #1289
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would pretty hilarious if Kent gets in and Bonds doesn't
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:06 PM   #1290
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With camps opening up next week and me dying of boredom, I'm gonna go ahead and take a way-too-early guess at the Mets' Opening Day roster:

LINEUP
1. SS Jose Reyes (S)
2. 2B Luis Castillo (S)
3. 3B David Wright (R)
4. LF Jason Bay (R)
5. 1B Daniel Murphy (L)
6. RF Jeff Francoeur (R)
7. C Omir Santos (R)
8. CF Angel Pagan (S)

ROTATION
9. LH Johan Santana (Opening Day Starter)
10. RH Mike Pelfrey
11. LH Oliver Perez
12. RH John Maine

BULLPEN
13. RH Francisco Rodriguez (Closer)
14. LH Pedro Feliciano
15. RH Ryota Igarashi
16. RH Kelvim Escobar
17. RH Bobby Parnell
18. RH Sean Green
19. RH Fernando Nieve

BENCH
20. C Henry Blanco (R)
21. UTIL Fernando Tatis (R)
22. IF Alex Cora (L)
23. OF Gary Matthews, Jr. (S)
24. UTIL Frank Catalanotto (L)
25. 1B/OF Chris Carter (L)

LHP Jonathon Niese wins the 5th starter spot, but he has options remaining so they carry Chris Carter as the 25th man until they need to activate Niese.

I think Nieve would have to fall flat on his face to not wind up on the pitching staff in some capacity since he's got good stuff and is out of options, but if Niese pushes him to the limit in the 5th starter chase I can see them both making the team. Not too thrilled about only having one lefty in the bullpen again, but I just really can't see any of the nobodies in camp impressing...I have some small hope that Igarashi will pitch well against lefties just due to the fact that nobody has seen him. I dunno.

I picked Pagan to win the Opening Day CF job but really all of April is going to feel almost like extended ST for him, GMJ, and Frank the Cat...because somebody's gotta go when Beltran is ready to come back (this, of course, is me being hopeful that there are no injuries early in the year).
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:41 PM   #1291
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I forgot - the Mets didn't bother to sign a good contact pitcher. Cuz, you know, Citi Field is a cavern and the Mets pitching staff was a joke last season .
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:56 PM   #1292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
Maddux is a 1st ballot. Glavine too. Muss is not a HOF. blyleveyn is way ahead of him.

Kent is borderline, maybe he makes it after year one.

Thomas is a hands down 1st ballot.
I think Kent would be more similar to Mussina where its going to be 5+ years before he goes in based on the future classes nominees and how both are borderline HoF based on last few years of stats.

If Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas all go in the same year, I can see Maddux being the "top" votes received and given the most attention by ESPN and others just from his dominance as a pitcher.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:27 PM   #1293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Fat Mike View Post
I forgot - the Mets didn't bother to sign a good contact pitcher. Cuz, you know, Citi Field is a cavern and the Mets pitching staff was a joke last season .
There really weren't any surefire difference-making options for the rotation outside of Lackey, who had no desire of pitching in NY. For the Mets to get him they probably would have had to dish out at least $100M and I'm sorry but John Lackey just is not worth that.

I wanted Sheets, but I get the reasoning for not making that trade...A's gave $10M for a move that will pretty much guarantee Sheets winds up on a contending ballclub when they inevitably trade him. Garland was intriguing as a guaranteed innings guy, but he wanted to stay out West and can hardly be considered a huge difference maker.

Beyond that, Mets already owe 2 years and $24 million to Perez. I commend Omar for not dishing out those 2 year deals for Pineiro and Wolf. They aren't enough of an improvement to warrant the commitment. Stick with what you have...if the Mets surprise people and do well, you can always add during the year. Furthermore, next year's free agent class is much better than this year's.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:10 PM   #1294
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Saw this on an Orioles fan site..When Baltimore experiences a blizzard, the Orioles usually make the playoffs..

1966 - Swept Dodgers in World Series
1979 - World Series loss to Pittsburgh
1983 - Beat Phillies in World Series
1996 - ALCS loss to Jeffrey Meier
2003 - didnt happen
2010 - ???
Last edited by Droford; 02-13-2010 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:06 AM   #1295
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I don't think Kent is going in the Hall. Especially with the big wave of great players coming up for eligibility over the coming years.
There will always be several more deserving players in each voting year.

His only chance is to get in way down the road, during a lean year. I still don't think it will happen though
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:21 PM   #1296
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Mark Mulder retires at age 32

Damn, that guy had so much potential but just couldn't stay on the field.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:12 PM   #1297
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WOW, that's a shame. Back in 2000, I was touting him for a 250 win career with HOF standards. just goes to show you how easily injuries can kill you.
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:17 PM   #1298
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Maddux, Glavine and Thomas all get in first ballot.

I still am of the opinion that Mussina gets in eventually but I might just be a homer.

Kent should get in too, especially stacking his numbers against other second basemen. One of the best offensive middle infielders ever. Probably not first ballot if Robbie Alomar doesn't get in first ballot but definitely in.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:43 PM   #1299
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Mussina is going to take awhile to get in the HOF. He had some good years but I dont think he was ever really a top 10 pitcher in his career. Never won a Cy Young, never won a World Series, came close several times to No hitters/Perfect Games. Kinda funny that the Yankees never won a world series with him which was the reason he left Baltimore, he retired and they went on to win in 09. I like how they pop stats about him having the same winning % as Jim Palmer and 600 more K's than Palmer..they can't compare him to someone from another team besides the Orioles could they? He will get in, but I predict it will take at least a 3rd ballot to get him in if not more.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:50 PM   #1300
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I think it will take more than 3 ballots but I am fairly certain he'll get in. Look at all the support for Frank Viola. He isn't half the pitcher Mike Mussina is.

Moose did it in the steroid era and entirely in the AL East. He was definitely a top 10 pitcher. There were always guys better than him but their names were Maddux, Glavine, Martinez, Clemens and Johnson. That's it.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:12 PM   #1301
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So the Mets haven't made a substantial offer to Delgado?

...wonder if he'll get any offers he's interested in.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:25 PM   #1302
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Quote:
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So the Mets haven't made a substantial offer to Delgado?

...wonder if he'll get any offers he's interested in.
The Mets have pretty much ended all discussion of Delgado (at least as far as the start of the year is concerned) after reports that he was playing horribly at 1B and limping all over the place. I'd have to think Daniel Murphy will get the bulk of the starts there unless Mike Jacobs puts together an awesome spring.

Thing that annoys me is how so many around baseball (including Mets fans) are saying "Daniel Murphy cannot be a 1B on a contending team" - I really don't get why. Jason Bay replaces Carlos Delgado, and Jeff Francoeur is an UPGRADE over Ryan Church...their lineup looks better this year than it did starting last year. People seem to think 1B has to be a power guy or bust. Never really got that thinking.

If the Mets offense is really slumping, Mets could always give Delgado a call mid-year (I'm sure he'll be working out constantly waiting for the call), but I do think he'd be best suited as a DH.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:49 AM   #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeRazor View Post
Maddux, Glavine and Thomas all get in first ballot.

I still am of the opinion that Mussina gets in eventually but I might just be a homer.

Kent should get in too, especially stacking his numbers against other second basemen. One of the best offensive middle infielders ever. Probably not first ballot if Robbie Alomar doesn't get in first ballot but definitely in.
A huge thing against Mussina is Schilling is on the ballot the year before. If Schilling doesn't get in, Mussina has no chance.
Last edited by Supreme Olajuwon; 02-16-2010 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:11 AM   #1304
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Sabermetrics are killing baseball discussion for me. I tried formulating my opinion that the Phillies rotation isn't a lock to be as good or as imposing as people make it out to be...because it largely is a bunch of question marks beyond Halladay (Hamels has to bounce back from a year-after effect, Blanton is entirely mediocre, Happ will probably come down to Earth, and Moyer is 72 years old). My logic seems sound, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to find support for what I said.

And some Phillies fan goes ahead and responds by citing a million convoluted, complicated statistics as to why my opinion is somehow wrong (as if there is such a thing). I now have to look all this shit up before I can make a response. I miss when baseball discussion was simplistic.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:38 AM   #1305
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:22 PM   #1306
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Wang + Nationals = More wasted money spent by the people in DC.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:38 PM   #1307
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LOL Wang gonna go 3-16 with a 6.34 ERA.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:47 PM   #1308
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poor guy. I want to give him a hug
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:52 PM   #1309
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Why is everyone so down on Wang? Might I remind you in 2006 and 2007 he was almost a 20 game winner. The only reason he is as bad as he is is because of his surgery. Couldn't it be possible that the Nats got the 19 game winner Wang from 2007?
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:47 PM   #1310
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A interleague game in Houston led to his downfall. He's gonna be at the plate and maybe running bases on a regular basis.

I love CMW as much as the next guy. But I'd bet he would rebound better if a AL team threw him a deal.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:56 PM   #1311
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Down on Wang.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:34 PM   #1312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J View Post
Why is everyone so down on Wang? Might I remind you in 2006 and 2007 he was almost a 20 game winner. The only reason he is as bad as he is is because of his surgery. Couldn't it be possible that the Nats got the 19 game winner Wang from 2007?
I think some of it has to do with the fact that a lot of "baseball guys" were saying Wang's numbers would slide eventually because he didn't have or use another pitch besides the sinker. And this was before his injury.

And when he was at his best his sinker was mid-90s, if he doesn't get that back he'll be very hittable again.

He could definitely still be decent but I'm not sure he'll be able to get back to where he was.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:57 AM   #1313
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R.I.P. The Miz
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:14 PM   #1314
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What Dragon said, plus Wang's wins were inflated due to who he pitched for.
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:00 PM   #1315
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Well there's an especially sucky thing about camp this year. After last year, ANY Mets injury incurred in camp, even the routine injuries most guys get in spring...will send most Mets fans into irrational panic.

Case in point, today it was learned that Kelvim Escobar is already feeling shoulder discomfort, and he doesn't even report til tomorrow. He's now expected to be behind all of the other pitchers in camp and is in competition for the set-up man role. It might not even be a huge deal but Mets fans are all "WELL THAT'S IT HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!" etc. Ridiculous. I hate most other Mets fans.

Besides, if I had to pick one guy to get injured this year, Escobar was the obvious choice. Tends to happen when you pitch 5 innings in 2 years.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:00 AM   #1316
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That Mets fan you just described sounds exactly this one poster on TPWW. There's a Giants fan who does it too. Might even be the same guy.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:05 AM   #1317
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lol. Not even I am bad enough to start panicking about injuries yet.

Really though, if you want to see pathetic...check out the official Mets message boards. I sincerely think the Mets might have one of the worst fanbases in baseball. The people there put any of my negativity to absolute shame.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:11 AM   #1318
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lolMets
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:15 AM   #1319
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Nice insightful post there.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:39 AM   #1320
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Snooping around the free agents still left, I'm pretty shocked Kiko Calero hasn't signed anywhere yet. Dude's been a solid reliever for pretty much his whole career.
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