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Old 06-02-2010, 02:35 AM   #1
Jordan
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Cha cha cha changes!
TPWW I will refer to you as "you" in this message. And don't be offended by you I mean me too. And then when I generalize and say you, sometimes I don't mean me and sometimes I don't mean you.

You have bitched so oft as of late (well forever really) on how WWE is the same show, with the same main event level sta- wait the record has skipped....

Hold on.

Oh yeah did anyone happen to check out Raw this past week? The Uso's, The Hart Dynasty, Miz, Daniel, and to top in off internet darling Evan Bourne in the main event with Cena opposite Edge and Sheamus? Oh did I forget to mention that fella?

WWE has finally changed. Sure its forced because of injuries and retirements, but it's here!

WWE has seen many many changes in its history, from production to target audience to in ring action, it has all changed over the years. There have been some real downer periods where the ring action was not top notch all round. Then you have eras where seemingly ever wrestler on the roster is pulling his weight to the best of his ability.

I will leave it to you to decide the eras that have the best in ring work, I fear that if I impose my opinions you may stop reading.

I just ask you to do this, think back five years ago, ten years ago, even fifteen or twenty. Now think about Wrestlemania this year, or Elimination Chamber, or any remarkable match, moment, or memory.

Now just take these two pictures the one of WWE in the past and WWE now, juxtapose them side by side in your mind. And there is the change.

WWE's roster is extremely diverse at the moment, they have a character for everybody to identify with it seems, and they have planted seeds so that they don't run into the rut again. The seeds are FCW and even NXT to an extent. They have put JR in a position to bring in talent that will main event Wrestlemania's, and they are pushing new talent in all areas.

I just wanted to comment on this obvious (to me) change WWE has gone through in about a year or two.

Also notice the MMA influence that has been creeping into move sets here and there, that is impressive and smart. Now we just need to get to the point where arm bars finish matches and I will be happy.

Another thing WWE has improved on is handling the kayfabe rules of the ring.
Of course gone are the days of unprotected chair shots and needless "hardcore" matches, and now the enforced rules of the match make everything much more interesting. People complain about false finishes but it is a great way to finish a big match on free TV and get people to pay for the Gimmick Match on the next PPV, why? Because you are guaranteed not to see a count out in Elimination Chamber, you know you won't see dq's at Extreme Rules, and etc etc...

I have pretty happy with WWE at the moment, I feel like they are stronger than ever and only getting more impressive year after year.

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Old 06-02-2010, 02:38 AM   #2
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Also when you do away with excessive hardcore action you get matches like Mankind vs Shawn Michaels at Mind Games, creative brutality I like to call it. Where as most ECW violence wasn't very hard to come up with .
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:41 AM   #3
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Tiiiiiime to change the oil, cha cha Changes! You don't want to be an oily man!
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:43 AM   #4
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I guess I should actually watch RAW this Monday. I skipped the last episode because... well... RAW usually sucks.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:46 AM   #5
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I'm not saying it is great top to bottom every week, don't get me wrong, that would be extremely rare. But there are big changes, you may like them you may not.

I'm coming from originally watching WWF in 1995, and I was a kid so all of the changes WWE has are kind of impressive considering where they have come from.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:47 AM   #6
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...Vince and the WWE KNOW that the guest host thing is ridiculous...they KNOW fans are tired of it...they KNOW that it adds nothing to the show...heck, they even have The Miz and Y2J say this on the freaking show...so...why continue to have guest hosts?!
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:48 AM   #7
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:50 AM   #8
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tl;dr.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
...Vince and the WWE KNOW that the guest host thing is ridiculous...they KNOW fans are tired of it...they KNOW that it adds nothing to the show...heck, they even have The Miz and Y2J say this on the freaking show...so...why continue to have guest hosts?!
I agree I think it sucks, especially now that they don't even matter in the booking of the show.

And even when they were it was still a horrible idea.

Like I said though we don't like it but the "new" audience they want to lure in does. I have a feeling WWE would love to be publicized more often in TMZ and other trash publications. And hey it's pro wrestling, it's not better than TMZ and it could help bring in some new viewers. However, I always come from a "I'd rather watch a match" stand point than some ludicrous segment with Ashton Kutcher on the tron acting like he is in the arena live when he is obviously not.

Also, not sure how I am taking Bret at GM. He is so demasculated, especially when he is in the ring with McMahon. McMahon is so much more powerful than Bret, he is an alpha dog and Bret is kind of mush at the moment.

I know it's not his fault, and I honestly wish this was all over. Because Bret looks bad, over the heel, and washed up. Not to mention he has ZERO charisma and he isn't really all there in the head IMO. He is defiantly not the Hitman we all knew and loved or hated.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:58 AM   #10
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BTW I often don't watch beyond 10 seconds of the Guest Host stuff, unless it's a host I like, very funny, or has Santino in it.
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:01 AM   #11
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I agree I think it sucks, especially now that they don't even matter in the booking of the show.

And even when they were it was still a horrible idea.

Like I said though we don't like it but the "new" audience they want to lure in does. I have a feeling WWE would love to be publicized more often in TMZ and other trash publications. And hey it's pro wrestling, it's not better than TMZ and it could help bring in some new viewers. However, I always come from a "I'd rather watch a match" stand point than some ludicrous segment with Ashton Kutcher on the tron acting like he is in the arena live when he is obviously not.

Also, not sure how I am taking Bret at GM. He is so demasculated, especially when he is in the ring with McMahon. McMahon is so much more powerful than Bret, he is an alpha dog and Bret is kind of mush at the moment.

I know it's not his fault, and I honestly wish this was all over. Because Bret looks bad, over the heel, and washed up. Not to mention he has ZERO charisma and he isn't really all there in the head IMO. He is defiantly not the Hitman we all knew and loved or hated.

...Bret looks...BAD. I mean, it all starts with those glasses, I mean...NO. Then, he insists in wearing hats periodically, along WITH the glasses. Then, when he doesn't wear the hat, he has this HARD hair...I mean...and those 3/4 length shorts...they were cool in '97...not so in the 2000's.

People think the "look" doesnt matter, but it does...and it doesn't help that whenever Bret is listening to someone else speak, in the ring or backstage, he has this...STUPID look on his face...looks like an old lady, to be honest.

Bret was never great at promos, anyway. The only time when he was MONEY was back in '96, when he had Stone Cold as a counterpart, and in '97, when he was Anti-American and had HBK and DX as counterparts. But other than that, he's never been AWESOME speaking, so...he can't wrestle now...what's he got left?

...the only thing that would save him would be a heel turn where he hangs around with a heel Hart Dynasty and as GM he wreaks havoc.

...but it aint happening, im sure.
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:18 AM   #12
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tl;dr.
vintage St. Jimmy
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:49 AM   #13
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Cena's WWE champ(and will be again soon after he loses)...what brilliant change eh?
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:22 AM   #14
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Evan Bourne getting a spot in a main event match one time is NOT evidence of change. As for the rest of the people you mentioned as evidence, Miz has been in the works for awhile, Daniel hasn't done anything yet, The Uso's have only been on television twice. However we can agree that Fella is awesome.

So wheres the change? The "tag" division still has essentially two teams in competition and no one else on the horizon, the mid card is still a revolving door, and there have been several "Evan Bourne" incarnations over the years, Carlito and Kofi being more recent examples. Failed attempts where WWE tried to "pump" a smaller mid card wrestler into the main event for a month, and then got bored and nixed the push. Why would anyone harbor an illusion that the Bourne story will play out differently?

The faces might be changing but this is the same old stuff.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:32 AM   #15
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bourne main eventing one raw is not change at all, now if they actually put some effort in and push him, then that might be a small change.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:38 AM   #16
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Jordan cited more then Evan Bourne being in the main event on Raw as examples...
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favre4Ever View Post
Evan Bourne getting a spot in a main event match one time is NOT evidence of change. As for the rest of the people you mentioned as evidence, Miz has been in the works for awhile, Daniel hasn't done anything yet, The Uso's have only been on television twice. However we can agree that Fella is awesome.

So wheres the change? The "tag" division still has essentially two teams in competition and no one else on the horizon, the mid card is still a revolving door, and there have been several "Evan Bourne" incarnations over the years, Carlito and Kofi being more recent examples. Failed attempts where WWE tried to "pump" a smaller mid card wrestler into the main event for a month, and then got bored and nixed the push. Why would anyone harbor an illusion that the Bourne story will play out differently?

The faces might be changing but this is the same old stuff.
It's called optimism.

Plus I don't see how almost 5 years of only HHH, Orton and Cena in the main event scene on Raw equals "same old stuff", compared to what's going on now.

WWE is CLEARLY trying to create new stars. It's been evident for some time now.
Last edited by Juan; 06-02-2010 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:50 AM   #18
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Whether or not you like the changes is a different story, but to completely ignore or disregard the changes (regardless WHY the changes were made) is ignorant and asinine.
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:38 AM   #19
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I'm naturally negative when it comes to wwe supposedly making changes because of what i've put up with watching sometimes, though i admit they've done well with swagger/sheamus/miz. Someway to go yet though.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:35 PM   #20
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:44 PM   #21
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About Evan Bourne... he is becoming as popular as Rey Mysterio. These high fliers are a great way to astound children and a great way to make some money off merchandise for both the wrestler and the company. If WWE gives Evan a push similar to Kofi, Evan will take off. He has that natural WWE charisma, similar to Dusty Rhodes, or the prime babyface Bob Backlund, or Rey Mysterio. He is so easy to pull for, and plus he is more aggressive than Rey, as demonstrated in that match, he used basic wrestling holds (not lucha) and was able to take down Edge for a few moments.

Sure WWE could get bored with it but what happened on Raw was kinda epic for Evan Bourne and the crowd response was off the chart.

I don't think he will main event next weeks Raw, but I doubt they will throw him in the ring with Koslov or Santino etc...
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:45 PM   #22
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AND I am not an Evan Bourne mark, but I may have become one on Raw. The angle reminded me of the 123 Kid's entrance angle and his popularity rising because he was so fucking fun to watch.

And Evan Bourne seems to be a 2010 upgrade of the 123 Kid's style, and he has a lot more heart and charisma.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:49 PM   #23
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And somebody said "The Uso's, Miz, Daniel, etc..." doesn't equal a change...

Well, I just don't see how you don't see it.

It is obvious WWE want's the Uso's to do something special, they gave them an old school promo segment where they just got to rip. Sure they weren't 100% off the chart, but they each had their moments of quality.

Now anyway, I'm not talking about quality. Just the fact that there are so many new wrestlers on the board, just that alone signify's the changes.

We don't have Triple H and John Cena hogging all the segments on Raw, instead focused time for the new stars. I just don't see how "you" (remember) can bitch about WWE not creating new stars for so long, and not be happy right now, with a totally new product and new wrestlers.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
...Vince and the WWE KNOW that the guest host thing is ridiculous...they KNOW fans are tired of it...they KNOW that it adds nothing to the show...heck, they even have The Miz and Y2J say this on the freaking show...so...why continue to have guest hosts?!
You don't have any qualms with citing heels as proof? The guys who will say "bad" things for heat?
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
You don't have any qualms with citing heels as proof? The guys who will say "bad" things for heat?

...no matter how "heelish" a wrestler, Vince won't tolerate anyone crapping on his product ON AIR. If it goes ON AIR, believe me, Vince knows they're going to do so.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
About Evan Bourne... he is becoming as popular as Rey Mysterio. These high fliers are a great way to astound children and a great way to make some money off merchandise for both the wrestler and the company. If WWE gives Evan a push similar to Kofi, Evan will take off. He has that natural WWE charisma, similar to Dusty Rhodes, or the prime babyface Bob Backlund, or Rey Mysterio. He is so easy to pull for, and plus he is more aggressive than Rey, as demonstrated in that match, he used basic wrestling holds (not lucha) and was able to take down Edge for a few moments.

Sure WWE could get bored with it but what happened on Raw was kinda epic for Evan Bourne and the crowd response was off the chart.

I don't think he will main event next weeks Raw, but I doubt they will throw him in the ring with Koslov or Santino etc...

Jordan the other point you forgot is that Bourne's theme has energy in it and gets people to cheer their asses off (especially this past monday) before he even comes out. The fans know who Bourne is and are gonna get a sick match out of him. Rey on the other hand has had that booyaka shit for 4 years now and it's wearing thin. Bourne can get a better pop (IMO) and better response than Rey hands down right now.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volare View Post
Jordan the other point you forgot is that Bourne's theme has energy in it and gets people to cheer their asses off (especially this past monday) before he even comes out. The fans know who Bourne is and are gonna get a sick match out of him. Rey on the other hand has had that booyaka shit for 4 years now and it's wearing thin. Bourne can get a better pop (IMO) and better response than Rey hands down right now.
Agreed 100%
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .44 Magdalene View Post
I guess I should actually watch RAW this Monday. I skipped the last episode because... well... RAW usually sucks.
Yeah Raw is definately the thing I used to watch before TNA got good.
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:48 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
...no matter how "heelish" a wrestler, Vince won't tolerate anyone crapping on his product ON AIR. If it goes ON AIR, believe me, Vince knows they're going to do so.
Lol no.
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