It's Been Three Years

[Jeritron]

The problem I have with it all is that the people who take the defensive side would never do that for someone else. If a 30-something man who was a great accountant and had great respect in his field went off the deep end and murdered his wife and child, they wouldn't step up and defend him. They'd probably write him off as a piece of trash just the same. It's just because he was a great wrestler and some fans don't want to let that go.
Great matches apparently mean a lot to some people. Personally, I can't get past it and I don't care if that requires me to disregard his legacy.
The horror and negativity he brought upon wrestling and the people who knew him far outweighs what he brought to the table anyways.

[Rev. Hallowell]

Originally Posted by Jeritron The problem I have with it all is that the people who take the defensive side would never do that for someone else. If a 30-something man who was a great accountant and had great respect in his field went off the deep end and murdered his wife and child, they wouldn't step up and defend him.

It's also unlikely that a thirty-something accountant would have accumulated enough concussions to have the mental capacity of an 80 year old with dementia. He killed his family, there's no denying that at this point. However, I don't think of him as a murderer because I don't believe he was capable of judgement at that point. I think without the suicide, he would have been found "Not guilty by reason of insanity" and put into an institution.

[addy2hotty]

Originally Posted by Rev. Hallowell It's also unlikely that a thirty-something accountant would have accumulated enough concussions to have the mental capacity of an 80 year old with dementia. He killed his family, there's no denying that at this point. However, I don't think of him as a murderer because I don't believe he was capable of judgement at that point. I think without the suicide, he would have been found "Not guilty by reason of insanity" and put into an institution.

He seemingly had the mental faculties to be able to text from two separate phones to advise two people that he'd left his dogs in a specific location at his house. Earlier that weekend, he told a bunch of lies to get out of a house show.

There was also a big gap between Nancy and Daniel's deaths. He sedated his son so he would not be aware. He left bibles out. He planned and successfully hung himself.

Doesn't strike me as someone incapable of judgement.

[Rev. Hallowell]

Originally Posted by addy2hotty He seemingly had the mental faculties to be able to text from two separate phones to advise two people that he'd left his dogs in a specific location at his house. Earlier that weekend, he told a bunch of lies to get out of a house show. There was also a big gap between Nancy and Daniel's deaths. He sedated his son so he would not be aware. He left bibles out. He planned and successfully hung himself. Doesn't strike me as someone incapable of judgement.

Judgement is different than cognative abilities. Like someone said, he was walking around drooling all over himself, but I don't believe he knew right from wrong.

[addy2hotty]

Originally Posted by Rev. Hallowell Judgement is different than cognative abilities. Like someone said, he was walking around drooling all over himself, but I don't believe he knew right from wrong.

Depends on how you look it.

Clearly, he knew right enough from wrong to want to end his son's life in such a way that would cause him the least pain. Put his dogs in a safe place and ask his friends to come and get them. In my lowly opinion, I'd say a nutjob would simply of taken a shotgun to them both then himself.

If you ask me, Benoit, in a rage caused by drugs, brain damage and marital problems killed his wife in a violent manner. Then, racked by guilt and the thought of a disabled son growing upw ithout a mother and father ended his life as mentioned above. He then ended his own life as planned.

As much as I want to think that Benoit was not in control, I think he was to an extent - whether that makes him evil is up to other people to decide.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by addy2hotty Depends on how you look it.

Not really. functionality and rationality are not the same thing, regardless.

Further, sedating his son wasn't necessarily a humane gesture. You have to selectively interpret the evidence to get there. You're working backwards from morality and shoehorning it in to demonstrate it was there in the first place.

[Jeritron]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Not really. functionality and rationality are not the same thing, regardless. Further, sedating his son wasn't necessarily a humane gesture. You have to selectively interpret the evidence to get there. You're working backwards from morality and shoehorning it in to demonstrate it was there in the first place.

The actions of placing the bibles, deciding to kill himself out of what may have been guilt, and the conscious decision to lie to WWE are all actions that may be construed as indicating an understanding of right and wrong.
At the same time, they may just indicate self preservation. It's hard to know what his full motives behind these things were.

That poses the larger question of morality and consequences. Was he remorseful, or was he just worried about the aftermath?
This question can be raised in any crime. Do people choose to do it in spite of morality, or is punishment the only concern?
Was he a sociopath to begin with?
I don't think assuming he knew the difference between right and wrong given the circumstances is much different from doing the same in nearly any murder case.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by addy2hotty He seemingly had the mental faculties to be able to text from two separate phones to advise two people that he'd left his dogs in a specific location at his house. Earlier that weekend, he told a bunch of lies to get out of a house show. There was also a big gap between Nancy and Daniel's deaths. He sedated his son so he would not be aware. He left bibles out. He planned and successfully hung himself. Doesn't strike me as someone incapable of judgement.

Since the context of those texts was released and we could see he basically repeated the same information over and over, it might be worth pointing out. Since none of that information was more than basic, that might be an important piece, too.

Since mental illness doesn't stop one from being able to selectively rationalise, that might be important. Being able to judge right from wrong is not the same as being able to carry out a thought process like "weights are heavy. I can use heavy weights to kill myself." The level of "planning" involved here is kind of exaggerated by calling it planning.

I'm not saying I'm any less of a layman than you, but you're certainly demonstrating prejudice in your presentation of the facts and applying it to come to a very prejudicial end.

[addy2hotty]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Since the context of those texts was released and we could see he basically repeated the same information over and over, it might be worth pointing out. Since none of that information was more than basic, that might be an important piece, too. Since mental illness doesn't stop one from being able to selectively rationalise, that might be important. Being able to judge right from wrong is not the same as being able to carry out a thought process like "weights are heavy. I can use heavy weights to kill myself." The level of "planning" involved here is kind of exaggerated by calling it planning. I'm not saying I'm any less of a layman than you, but you're certainly demonstrating prejudice in your presentation of the facts and applying it to come to a very prejudicial end.

More of a theory than anything else. It's difficult to have any type of theory about this without taking a prejudicial view one way or the other when presenting facts possibly overblown by media intrusion.

No-one has come up with any definitive answer in 3 years on the subject. I doubt anyone here will get any closer.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by addy2hotty More of a theory than anything else. It's difficult to have any type of theory about this without taking a prejudicial view one way or the other when presenting facts possibly overblown by media intrusion. No-one has come up with any definitive answer in 3 years on the subject. I doubt anyone here will get any closer.

The absence of definitive answers doesn't make your reasoning any more valid.

[addy2hotty]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight The absence of definitive answers doesn't make your reasoning any more valid.

Agreed. I haven't done a full scale investigation into the topic, just a few articles here and there.

I heard TNA is pairing up Homicide and Suicide, and calling it Chris Benoit.

Jokes aside, Benoit was a great technicle wrestler, and here's a good video to watch if you were a fan.

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by nojomo I heard TNA is pairing up Homicide and Suicide, and calling it Chris Benoit. Jokes aside, Benoit was a great technicle wrestler, and here's a good video to watch if you were a fan.

Where was the joke that you're putting aside?

[Providence Peep]

One school of thought is that, brain damaged or not, there had to be something dark inside of him for him to take it to that level. This wasn't just a quick, heat- of-the-moment thing. He took his time and knew exactly what he was doing.

On the other hand, some would say it's CLEAR that he was not born a murderous bastard. His mind was all fucked up on the drugs he was on, the concussions he had, and the alleged marital problems he and his wife had. He placed a Bible next to them. I'm quite sure that was after he killed them. Why? Remorse, no? Isn't that also why he killed himself?

[Jeritron]

Originally Posted by Providence Peep One school of thought is that, brain damaged or not, there had to be something dark inside of him for him to take it to that level. This wasn't just a quick, heat- of-the-moment thing. He took his time and knew exactly what he was doing. On the other hand, some would say it's CLEAR that he was not born a murderous bastard. His mind was all fucked up on the drugs he was on, the concussions he had, and the alleged marital problems he and his wife had. He placed a Bible next to them. I'm quite sure that was after he killed them. Why? Remorse, no? Isn't that also why he killed himself?

This too. He was still capable of what he did. Not everyone that suffers from dementia or concussion related mental illness goes around offing their family systematically.
It's difficult to sort out the real reasons behind what happened on those days, and where things seperate.

I will probably bow out of this conversation now, because there's not really much more I can offer other than descending into a pissing contest.

[Providence Peep]

Originally Posted by Rev. Hallowell It's also unlikely that a thirty-something accountant would have accumulated enough concussions to have the mental capacity of an 80 year old with dementia.

I think that's a valid point....... but then again, remember what Syxx said? That no one told Benoit to take whatever stuff he was taking and no one told him to wrestle the way he wrestled?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Providence Peep I think that's a valid point....... but then again, remember what Syxx said? That no one told Benoit to take whatever stuff he was taking and no one told him to wrestle the way he wrestled?

Yes, because the human mind is so well understood and the correlation between concussion and murder is so strong.

[Providence Peep]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Yes, because the human mind is so well understood and the correlation between concussion and murder is so strong.

Well, Waltman thinks so.