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Old 03-01-2011, 09:51 PM   #1
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Yeah, that's all common knowledge but I took her saying 'got her break' as in 'started out' on TV/WWE debut since her examples are all different successes on different levels (example Triple H was way more over as a face than as a posh heel before going heel again/title push, Austin's real 'overness' came as a face from March '97, Cena was getting cheered for some time before they switched him face for his 'breakout' etc) I don't think even Lara Emily knows what point she is trying to make here.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:11 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by CSL View Post
Yeah, that's all common knowledge but I took her saying 'got her break' as in 'started out' on TV/WWE debut since her examples are all different successes on different levels (example Triple H was way more over as a face than as a posh heel before going heel again/title push, Austin's real 'overness' came as a face from March '97, Cena was getting cheered for some time before they switched him face for his 'breakout' etc) I don't think even Lara Emily knows what point she is trying to make here.
HHH got over in DX as a heel (and yes he was booed), Austin won KOTR and gave birth to Austin 3:16 as a heel, when I said got their break I mean just that the moment they started truly getting over.

BTW with Cena you are highlting my exact point, one of the best ways to eventually become a massively over face is to break into the main event scene as a cool heel.

Are you purposely being an idiot or something?

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Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
Well, have you considered that maybe that's because by the time one gets to the top, they've been around a few years and they've seen a few gimmick or character changes?
That's the business. Especially with up and comers in the midcard. So you can look back on any rising career and pull out that they were once a heel.
No no the argument isn't that faces were at some point heels it's that a lot of the major faces got to be major faces because of how over they got as heels right before they turned face.

The list includes: Rock, Austin, HHH, HBK, Randy Orton, John Cena, Batista, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Ric Flair and the list goes on.

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I'm pretty sure the point she was making was that most successful stables started out as heel factions.
ABT supplemented that with the point that the very notion of a stable/faction implies semi-heel behavior. It's gang mentality and usually serves to give wrestlers an edge by having a crew.

So what is really the problem with those points?
I agree with both, tbh.

If it's so untrue, I'd like to see a list of notable stables that started out as faces. Citing that nWo and DX were huge face factions is irrelevant. A total red herring.
They started out as heel groups and functioned as such for some time. Just because they got super popular and sold merch, doesn't change that. That's because they were cool heels. That's like saying Stone Cold and The Rock didn't get over as heels because they ended up turning face in the same gimmick and selling lots of shirts. Has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

They were heels when they started. Fact not opinion. And I don't know why singles careers got dragged into the pot. But, I'm still drawing a blank on stables that started out as face factions. I'm sure there have to be a few, but I certainly can't think of any very successful ones at the moment.
Yeah I shouldn't have brought up singles, I was just making an observation that much like stables most of the major success stories of modern wrestling all got their big break as heels and all started getting over as heels.
Last edited by Lara Emily; 03-02-2011 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
Did you read what I said? Rock was a fucking joke in his inital face run his big break came as a cool heel. Orton was low midcard until he turned heel, Cena was low mid card until he turned heel, Edge was heel very shortly after he debuted and his first major run as a main evener was as a heel.

I was just pointing out that for a lot of guys being heel was where they really started to get over.

As for stables there have been two face stables in the past hmm 15 years or so The Union which was created directly from a heel table and the Filthy Animals
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Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
HHH got over in DX as a heel (and yes he was booed), Austin won KOTR and gave birth to Austin 3:16 as a heel, when I said got their break I mean just that the moment they started truly getting over.

BTW with Cena you are highlting my exact point, one of the best ways to eventually become a massively over face is to break into the main event scene as a cool heel.

Are you purposely being an idiot or something?
You ask me if I'm purposely being an idiot two sentences after explaining yourself, so you clearly realize that you weren't being very clear with what you were on about. So are you purposely being a bit of a twat or ?

And I still can't believe you are still banging on about the singles guys. Have you read anything I've posted on this 2nd page? My god.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
You ask me if I'm purposely being an idiot two sentences after explaining yourself, so you clearly realize that you weren't being very clear with what you were on about. So are you purposely being a bit of a twat or ?

And I still can't believe you are still banging on about the singles guys. Have you read anything I've posted on this 2nd page? My god.
Dude you're the one who misinterpreted what I meant by big break. I didn't explain myself I reiterated myself in response to our stupid assumption that some how big break = debut, I purposely stated big break because I knew guys such as the Rock actually debuted as faces.You're the only one who read it as debut.

I did read what you said on page 2 means shit, massively over faces who gpt over big time by soley being a face are rare and usually get that by way of the monster push IE: Goldberg Hogan, Warrior

I never claimed all Big faces went the get over as a heel first route I just pointed out that history reflects that a lot (maybe even most) of them did. There's a reason for that too, major success stories are performers who the fans chose, who the fans wanted to like, it's much easier to start off being hated and get people to like you by just doing your thing, then to be forced into a babyface role and basically demand people like you (IE Rocky Maivia). To be frank it was an observation I shouldn't have made as it derailed the thread clearly. End of story is no major Face faction in recent history has been massively successful without starting off as heels, if you want to argue against that you are arguing against reality.
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