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Old 03-01-2011, 07:03 PM   #1
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WWE needs a face faction
Why don't we get face faction's anymore??? im so sick of gang attack beat downs like the Corre Vs Big Show or Orton/Cena vs Nexus.
John Morrison or a face version of Dolph Ziggler could start a faction.
The results are 10 (or 8) guys have ready made feuds with each other, they can mix and match wrestling each other in singles and tag matches for months, it stays fresh and 10 (or 8) guys have a better chance of getting over. What dya think?
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:18 PM   #2
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Nah, pretty bored of factions tbh.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:19 PM   #3
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I tihnk the last face faction was "The Union"
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:23 PM   #4
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Here's a fun little game, name one uber successful face stable that didn't first start off as a heels.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:34 PM   #5
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It's hard to put people in a faction for a reason that doesn't make them look a little cowardly and heelish.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:35 PM   #6
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The only 'uber' successful factions are DX, nWo and maybe the Horseman. nWo were cheered as faces from day 1. Most of DX's success came with them as faces, both made a shit load of cash. Which is all that really matters.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:43 PM   #7
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Hogan definitely was not being cheered at Bash at the Beach 96. Also, when DX was just Michaels, Helmsley, Chyna, and Rude, they were being booed as well. That was always my favorite DX, though.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:47 PM   #8
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the nWo were not faces from day one, they had a following sure but they were not faces look at Bash at the Beach Hogan,Hall and Nash had garbage being thrown at them.

DX success as a face stable came from 6 months of build as cool heels. NAO were built as cool heels as well and already well established when they joined DX

The 3 most successful face stables all started as heels, which is my point, just starting a stable off as Faces rarely works
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:48 PM   #9
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lol not literally day one, like week 3 or something. As soon as they got the shirt, started cutting promos and generally being the 'coolest' guys on Nitro.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:49 PM   #10
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I'm not saying they were faces. I'm saying they were getting face reactions and selling (top-line) face amounts of merchandise.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:57 PM   #11
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The nWo guys just got pops when they made their entrances and cut their promos because they were "cool heels" but still, the fans booed them during matches and cheered for the WCW guys to win.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:59 PM   #12
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Exactly
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:02 PM   #13
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A year ago people were bitching that there are no factions. You get them, and then want more.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BollywoodSingh View Post
The nWo guys just got pops when they made their entrances and cut their promos because they were "cool heels" but still, the fans booed them during matches and cheered for the WCW guys to win.
Because most of them were very good at their jobs. The initial reaction to them was still 'SHIT NWO YEAAAHHHH'.

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Exactly
Exactly what? You haven't made any variety of point here.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:13 PM   #15
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I said the most successful face stables all started off as heel, thus were able to develop that cool heel feel which then got them over as faces later on.

Hell this applies to fucking single stars too.

The Rock got his first break as a heel
Steve Austin started getting over as a heel
Triple H Heel
Undertaker heel
even John Cena only really started getting over as heel.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:31 PM   #16
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Are you guys trying to say that The Union wasn't successful?
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:36 PM   #17
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Yes

Though I'd like to note that even the Union was a spin off of a heel stable 3/4 of Union members came directly from The Corporation
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:42 PM   #18
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4 floundering wrestlers with 2x4s can't be wrong.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:44 PM   #19
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Don't forget a great theme song *Whistle toot* UNION!
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:48 PM   #20
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I wonder if Legacy could work as faces?.....if they re-united to take on Nexus?

Orton is pretty over with the fans, and it probably wouldn't take much to convert Rhodes and Dibiase....especially if they are battling Nexus. Rhodes and Dibiase never really took off after leaving Legacy from what I understand (I haven't watched much wrestling over this past year).

Re-uniting Rhodes and Dibase might be the best thing for both men.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:49 PM   #21
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Nah Cody's got his own thing going quite well on Smackdown.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:53 PM   #22
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Is it really going "quite well?" Maybe it's just me but I thought Rhodes and Dibiase were far more over as members of Legacy. Both characters seem to have regressed quite a bit upon leaving.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:16 PM   #23
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Cody Rhodes is more over now than he has ever been.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:21 PM   #24
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Oh ok. I haven't watched Wrestling much and so I didn't know. I'm a little surprised that Rhodes has experienced more success than Dibiase. It seems like the WWE has really shit the bed with Teddy.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
I said the most successful face stables all started off as heel, thus were able to develop that cool heel feel which then got them over as faces later on.

Hell this applies to fucking single stars too.

The Rock got his first break as a heel
Steve Austin started getting over as a heel
Triple H Heel
Undertaker heel
even John Cena only really started getting over as heel.
2 stables. 'Starting out heel' is clearly not a pre-requisite for success.

And of course it doesn't apply to singles guys. Rock didn't start as a heel in WWE. Ditto Cena. Ditto Orton. Ditto HBK. Ditto Warrior. Ditto Edge. And so on and so on.

Still not seeing any kind of point here.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:28 PM   #26
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I have to ask...

If you have no idea what's going on with wrestling, why are you even here?
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
2 stables. 'Starting out heel' is clearly not a pre-requisite for success.

And of course it doesn't apply to singles guys. Rock didn't start as a heel in WWE. Ditto Cena. Ditto Orton. Ditto HBK. Ditto Warrior. Ditto Edge. And so on and so on.

Still not seeing any kind of point here.
Rock had people chanting "DIE ROCKY DIE" as a face. People hated him and not in the way they should. He got over as a heel.

Cena was heel when his rapper gimmick got him over. Edge was "put over the top" with the Rated R Superstar heel gimmick. HBK became popular as The Heartbreak Kid - a heel gimmick.

I'll give you Warrior.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:51 PM   #28
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Yeah, that's all common knowledge but I took her saying 'got her break' as in 'started out' on TV/WWE debut since her examples are all different successes on different levels (example Triple H was way more over as a face than as a posh heel before going heel again/title push, Austin's real 'overness' came as a face from March '97, Cena was getting cheered for some time before they switched him face for his 'breakout' etc) I don't think even Lara Emily knows what point she is trying to make here.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:55 PM   #29
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And it doesn't matter anyway since I think the point is supposed to be that any wrestler/team/faction has to be a heel before they can be a successful face. Which is ridiculous.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:58 PM   #30
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Shawn Michaels was pretty popular with the Rockers.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:59 PM   #31
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Ricky Steamboat, also.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:02 PM   #32
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I didn't know Steamboat was a Rocker.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara Emily View Post
I said the most successful face stables all started off as heel, thus were able to develop that cool heel feel which then got them over as faces later on.

Hell this applies to fucking single stars too.

The Rock got his first break as a heel
Steve Austin started getting over as a heel
Triple H Heel
Undertaker heel
even John Cena only really started getting over as heel.
This is true. Most great faces, always starts getting over as a heel first...

...Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Sid, Orton, Kane...

...alot of 'em.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:09 PM   #34
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I'm pretty sure the point she was making was that most successful stables started out as heel factions.
ABT supplemented that with the point that the very notion of a stable/faction implies semi-heel behavior. It's gang mentality and usually serves to give wrestlers an edge by having a crew.

So what is really the problem with those points?
I agree with both, tbh.

If it's so untrue, I'd like to see a list of notable stables that started out as faces. Citing that nWo and DX were huge face factions is irrelevant. A total red herring.
They started out as heel groups and functioned as such for some time. Just because they got super popular and sold merch, doesn't change that. That's because they were cool heels. That's like saying Stone Cold and The Rock didn't get over as heels because they ended up turning face in the same gimmick and selling lots of shirts. Has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

They were heels when they started. Fact not opinion. And I don't know why singles careers got dragged into the pot. But, I'm still drawing a blank on stables that started out as face factions. I'm sure there have to be a few, but I certainly can't think of any very successful ones at the moment.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:10 PM   #35
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I think first we need to focus on saving WrestleMania.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
This is true. Most great faces, always starts getting over as a heel first...

...Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Sid, Orton, Kane...

...alot of 'em.
No, that is 'some'. Like how there are 'some' that got over as a face. The whole 'argument' is daft. And even out of the ones you've listed there, Diesel took off as a face when he dropped Shawn and Sid came into WWE as a face before turning during his Hogan run (he did pretty much nothing in WCW before that).
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:17 PM   #37
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Goldberg started as a face.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:18 PM   #38
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This is all off topic. What about stables?
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
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No, that is 'some'. Like how there are 'some' that got over as a face. The whole 'argument' is daft. And even out of the ones you've listed there, Diesel took off as a face when he dropped Shawn and Sid came into WWE as a face before turning during his Hogan run (he did pretty much nothing in WCW before that).
You look back in history, and most wrestlers who became great faces, were heel before that.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:22 PM   #40
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