What is this I hear about CM Punk? *Official Thread*

[James Steele]

How in the fuck did they "shit the bed" with Brock Lesnar in 02 or Orton in 04? They gave Orton everything and then some in 04 and he couldn't handle it/wasn't ready for it. Nobody got the push Brock Lesnar got in 02. NOBODY! He destroyed Hogan, Hardyz, The Rock, Big Show, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, and looked like a fucking GOD while being a multiple time World Champion and headlined WM and won in the main event for the title in a year.

[Lui Kang]

Originally Posted by James Steele How in the fuck did they "shit the bed" with Brock Lesnar in 02 or Orton in 04? They gave Orton everything and then some in 04 and he couldn't handle it/wasn't ready for it. Nobody got the push Brock Lesnar got in 02. NOBODY! He destroyed Hogan, Hardyz, The Rock, Big Show, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, and looked like a fucking GOD while being a multiple time World Champion and headlined WM and won in the main event for the title in a year.

They shit the bed with Brock Lesnar in 02' because they turned him face way too prematurely. After Lesnar got a good 'pop' when beating The Rock at Summerslam that year, the WWE blew their load and turned him into a bland face.

The same thing happend to Orton in 04'. After beating Benoit at Summerslam, the WWE got excited by the cheers Orton was getting, and turned him face.

In both instances, both men should have continued to be pushed as heels....regardless of the pops they were getting. This is what the WWE had done with Steve Austin and The Rock before they achieved mega-stardom.

Lesnar should have remained undefeated and heelish until the Wrestlemania main-event....where he should have lost to a face Kurt Angle. After the match, Lesnar could have them destroyed Heyman after Heyman slapped Lesnar or something.....and would have become a HUUUGE face by that point since the fans would literally be creaming their pants at the idea of cheering Lesnar. It also would have motivated Lesnar to strive for something in the future....instead of giving him everything on a silver platter way too soon.

Ditto for Orton. It should've been Orton leading Evolution as a heel after Summerslam.....and HHH making the face turn. It should have been a heel Orton jobbing to Batista in the main-event of 2005.

Orton in 2009 was also poorly booked. He should've been able to punt Stephanie in the head (would have further added to his pyscho character at the time), and he should have gone over HHH. Orton was fucking huge at that point, and the WWE killed his momentum.

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by Lui Kang They shit the bed with Brock Lesnar in 02' because they turned him face way too prematurely. After Lesnar got a good 'pop' when beating The Rock at Summerslam that year, the WWE blew their load and turned him into a bland face. The same thing happend to Orton in 04'. After beating Benoit at Summerslam, the WWE got excited by the cheers Orton was getting, and turned him face. In both instances, both men should have continued to be pushed as heels....regardless of the pops they were getting. This is what the WWE had done with Steve Austin and The Rock before they achieved mega-stardom. Lesnar should have remained undefeated and heelish until the Wrestlemania main-event....where he should have lost to a face Kurt Angle. After the match, Lesnar could have them destroyed Heyman after Heyman slapped Lesnar or something.....and would have become a HUUUGE face by that point since the fans would literally be creaming their pants at the idea of cheering Lesnar. Ditto for Orton. It should've been Orton leading Evolution as a heel after Summerslam.....and HHH making the face turn. It should have been a heel Orton jobbing to Batista in the main-event of 2005. Orton in 2009 was also poorly booked. He should've been able to punt Stephanie in the head (would have further added to his pyscho character at the time), and he should have gone over HHH. Orton was fucking huge at that point, and the WWE killed his momentum.

Randy Orton wasn't ready for the main event, and he got exposed when he didn't couldn't use Flair/HHH as a crutch.

Too bad Angle had neck surgury after WMXIX and probably wouldn't have been a good option to be champion since he barely was able to compete at WMXIX.

IT MADE NO SENSE for Orton to go over HHH at WM25. Orton did every damn evil thing possible, and Triple H just to get bitched out would have made no sense and a shitty end to WM25. Remember how everybody (some to this very day) complain about HHH (a heel) winning at WM2000.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Originally Posted by James Steele Randy Orton wasn't ready for the main event, and he got exposed when he didn't couldn't use Flair/HHH as a crutch. Too bad Angle had neck surgury after WMXIX and probably wouldn't have been a good option to be champion since he barely was able to compete at WMXIX. IT MADE NO SENSE for Orton to go over HHH at WM25. Orton did every damn evil thing possible, and Triple H just to get bitched out would have made no sense and a shitty end to WM25. Remember how everybody (some to this very day) complain about HHH (a heel) winning at WM2000.

The end of WrestleMania 25 was shit.

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon The end of WrestleMania 25 was shit.

I feel it had more to do with the fact that they followed HBK/Taker & Cena/Edge/Big Show as well as the fact that this blood feud had a "If you get DQ'd you lose the title" stipulation.

[HBPunk]

Originally Posted by James Steele I feel it had more to do with the fact that they followed HBK/Taker & Cena/Edge/Big Show as well as the fact that this blood feud had a "If you get DQ'd you lose the title" stipulation.

I feel it had more to do with Triple H sucking when wrestling as a face. Remember when he fought Jericho at WM 18? His return pop in MSG was insane because he's highly respected but nobody cared about HHH by WM time in his face run because he's so bland in the ring. He's awesome on the mic but as a heel he needed a hammer to get a pop. As a face all his pops are for his inside jokes and smart mouth but then as soon as any of his matches start the crowd slowly sits down and thinks "oh yeah, this guy is wrestling". All of HHH's greatest matches are because of his opponent(s) - The first chamber, Benoit/HBK at WrestleMania, Austin/Sledgehammer in 3 stages of hell. His greatest match ever is SummerSlam 2002 and thats because it was against Shawn Michaels.

[HBPunk]

Originally Posted by Lui Kang They shit the bed with Brock Lesnar in 02' because they turned him face way too prematurely. After Lesnar got a good 'pop' when beating The Rock at Summerslam that year, the WWE blew their load and turned him into a bland face. The same thing happend to Orton in 04'. After beating Benoit at Summerslam, the WWE got excited by the cheers Orton was getting, and turned him face. In both instances, both men should have continued to be pushed as heels....regardless of the pops they were getting. This is what the WWE had done with Steve Austin and The Rock before they achieved mega-stardom. Lesnar should have remained undefeated and heelish until the Wrestlemania main-event....where he should have lost to a face Kurt Angle. After the match, Lesnar could have them destroyed Heyman after Heyman slapped Lesnar or something.....and would have become a HUUUGE face by that point since the fans would literally be creaming their pants at the idea of cheering Lesnar. It also would have motivated Lesnar to strive for something in the future....instead of giving him everything on a silver platter way too soon. Ditto for Orton. It should've been Orton leading Evolution as a heel after Summerslam.....and HHH making the face turn. It should have been a heel Orton jobbing to Batista in the main-event of 2005. Orton in 2009 was also poorly booked. He should've been able to punt Stephanie in the head (would have further added to his pyscho character at the time), and he should have gone over HHH. Orton was fucking huge at that point, and the WWE killed his momentum.

Hindsight etc