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Old 07-20-2011, 01:50 PM   #17921
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:51 PM   #17922
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Yeah that's different. We were across from the hard camera, so of course there were signs all night. I would be frustrated if we were somewhere else and that was happening. You expect it on that side, not anywhere else.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:54 PM   #17923
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:59 PM   #17924
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Must you ruin everything, VSG?
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:03 PM   #17925
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Step one-collect underpants
Step two-
Step three- Profit!
now thats funny
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:04 PM   #17926
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Must you ruin everything, VSG?
It's not his fault he's terrible.


Oh wait, yes it is.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:04 PM   #17927
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Bring Kellys Expose to Raw, give it some edgyness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J0F1vAo0aA[url] < Watch and Enjoy.
Last edited by TheAdamEvansFan; 07-20-2011 at 02:05 PM. Reason: .
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:06 PM   #17928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAdamEvansFan View Post
Bring Kellys Expose to Raw, give it some edgyness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J0F1vAo0aA[url] < Watch and Enjoy.
If you can somehow work Brooke Adams and Layla into this equation, I'm all ears.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:18 PM   #17929
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Also, is that taking into account DVRs?
Most ratings you see are Live+SD...which takes into account DVR viewing up to 3 am local time the next day. This DVR viewing only counts fully if all commercials are viewed during the viewing. There's another rating called the C+3 which takes into account commericial viewing up to 3 days later but for the most part, Live+SD is good enough for the general public and tend to be pretty close to C+3 numbers.

On a side note, while absolute ratings are nice, USA Network and the advertisers in general pay their rates on the 18-49 ratings. In this sense, RAW did a 1.6 and 1.7 for the first and second hours respectively...good for fourth on Monday (Pawn Stars topped Monday night's cable ratings). Last week, RAW did a 1.4 first hour and a 1.6 the second hour 18-49, good for sixth (at least the last hour was good for sixth). RAW last week had to go up against the HR derby (2.5) and the MLB Special that had the celebrities and models playing softball or whatever (2.7).
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:21 PM   #17930
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Who in their right mind would DVR something and watch all the commercials?
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:31 PM   #17931
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What about airing Raw at midnight or 1 am for fans who work on Monday Nights and have basic cable.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:37 PM   #17932
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Not sure. I think it is impossible to make wrestling as hot as it was in the attitude era, because right now there is no Stone Cold - esque babyface. Everyone from every walk of life could relate to the Stone Cold story - flip off your boss, fire out expletives, beat the hell out of people, and get away with all of it while drinking a half dozen beers. That story was iconic, and can never be replicated.

I think they are on the right track to getting their old fans back, though. With the return of HHH, the development of CM Punk (which is easily the most interesting character they've had in a LONG time), and the general unpredictability that comes with having no WWE Championship around, the interest will gradually come back. Will it reach Attitude-era highs? No, not until another truly iconic figure comes along.

As another discussion, there are only two people I could call iconic in the traditional term of WWE - Hogan and Austin. These two were bigger than WWE at their peak - they were each the sole reason the company took off. They were helped by great undercard work, no doubt - but their characters, image, etc. was a rocket from which the business launched. For as good as HBK, Bret Hart, and Ric Flair were (greatest in-ring of all time), they did not expand the viewership like Austin and Hogan did.

So, in short, what can they do? Nothing. Until you get a once-in-a-lifetime story with a once-in-a-lifetime character, you can't manufacture lightning. However, you can use interesting and business-altering plots such as Vince leaving, the championship being gone, and developing CM Punk's epic heel persona (which will translate very well into a face turn within two years) to build back the base, hoping that when lightning strikes you'll have the pieces in place to take full advantage and become more mainstream.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:49 PM   #17933
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Quote:
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Who in their right mind would DVR something and watch all the commercials?
I didn't say anyone would...but in not doing so, those who are Nielsen familes are at most counting as .75 of a viewer since they aren't watching the 15-18 minutes of commercials that are typical of an hour long show. Networks and advertisers have a more precise measurement called C+3 (commercial+3 days after the showing) which gives a better picture as to commercial viewing.

This is also the reason why online viewing (legal and illegal) and On-Demand viewing mean nothing towards a show's prospects. Advertisers don't want to pay unless these viewings show the same commercial spots as shown during the original showing.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:51 PM   #17934
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The On Demand shows even have commercials in them now. I fast forward through those, too.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:53 PM   #17935
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:56 PM   #17936
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lol
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:59 PM   #17937
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Must you ruin everything, VSG?
Only way to survive this place off late.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:10 PM   #17938
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Angry
I think all we've categorically proved is that if we can make ABT watch some fucking ads, the rating will improve.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:12 PM   #17939
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Never gonna happen. I am much too busy doing other things to watch wrestling live. Unlike dronepool, though, I definitely will watch it later.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:14 PM   #17940
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Never gonna happen. I am much too busy doing other things to watch wrestling live. Unlike dronepool, though, I definitely will watch it later.
Yea I just catch it on youtube. I don't even have cable. It's my fault the ratings are in the toilet.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:14 PM   #17941
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Cool
I just download the shows after they happen, or recently YouTube'd them before work because I've been to eager to watch Raw.

But I'm not in the US, so I can't bump this up. But I don't blame anyone for skipping ads, even live TV I'll flick to a music channel while the ads are on.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:21 PM   #17942
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Is it not a hassle to download every week? Do you keep all of them?
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:26 PM   #17943
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Not sure. I think it is impossible to make wrestling as hot as it was in the attitude era, because right now there is no Stone Cold - esque babyface. Everyone from every walk of life could relate to the Stone Cold story - flip off your boss, fire out expletives, beat the hell out of people, and get away with all of it while drinking a half dozen beers. That story was iconic, and can never be replicated.

I think they are on the right track to getting their old fans back, though. With the return of HHH, the development of CM Punk (which is easily the most interesting character they've had in a LONG time), and the general unpredictability that comes with having no WWE Championship around, the interest will gradually come back. Will it reach Attitude-era highs? No, not until another truly iconic figure comes along.

As another discussion, there are only two people I could call iconic in the traditional term of WWE - Hogan and Austin. These two were bigger than WWE at their peak - they were each the sole reason the company took off. They were helped by great undercard work, no doubt - but their characters, image, etc. was a rocket from which the business launched. For as good as HBK, Bret Hart, and Ric Flair were (greatest in-ring of all time), they did not expand the viewership like Austin and Hogan did.

So, in short, what can they do? Nothing. Until you get a once-in-a-lifetime story with a once-in-a-lifetime character, you can't manufacture lightning. However, you can use interesting and business-altering plots such as Vince leaving, the championship being gone, and developing CM Punk's epic heel persona (which will translate very well into a face turn within two years) to build back the base, hoping that when lightning strikes you'll have the pieces in place to take full advantage and become more mainstream.
I tend to agree with this...though I mean add in that The Rock was/is still larger than the WWE even still to this day with his relative success in major Hollywood motion pictures...say compared to WWE produced movies.

I don't think we'll see the WWE achieved Attitude Era numbers ever again...mostly due to the climate of television viewing which is more fragmented then ever before...especially compared to the late 90's/early 2000's. Even the most popular of shows today don't get the same ratings as top shows did in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's just because there's so much more ways for the TV audience to be split.

I also tend to agree that we won't see Attitude Era type attention and media coverage until the perfect storm hits....the perfect superstar with the perfect storyline with the perfect compliment of top-card and mid-card wrestlers. The Attitude Era wasn't just Stone Cold...we had The Rock, HHH, Mankind, along with the tag-team division, a women's division that people cared about (at least comparatively speaking), along with the rest of the undercard.

To have all that happen again will take a lot of hard work from the WWE, but also a little bit of luck.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:30 PM   #17944
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The Attitude Era won't happen ever again and would fail miserably because of three letters: MMA.
 
Old 07-20-2011, 03:33 PM   #17945
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The On Demand shows even have commercials in them now. I fast forward through those, too.
True, but advertisers are not going to pay networks for what is shown On-Demand because it does not show the same commercials that were shown during the original airing and often times, when those shows are watched, the commercials can be outdated...another thing the advertisers aren't paying for. It's the same reason why online viewing means jack shit to the advertisers as well. They want the exact same commercials shown during the original airings and those same ones shown in a timely fashion. And they actually want the commercials viewed, hence why a viewer doesn't count as a full viewer unless commercials are also viewed.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:38 PM   #17946
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Exclamation
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Is it not a hassle to download every week? Do you keep all of them?
Click a link, it downloads while I'm working and ready when I get home.

I kind of keep them, I've got a lot of free space right now so I forget they're there, but if I run low they're usually the first to go apart from a couple of great ones.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:41 PM   #17947
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lol why is Khali feeling Umaga's leg up?
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:41 PM   #17948
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Originally Posted by L L Cool G View Post
The Attitude Era won't happen ever again and would fail miserably because of three letters: MMA.
I agree that it won't happen, bit not the reason in the slightest. Were people really watching a scripted show with strong storyline elements because real fighting wasn't as widely available? Seems retarded.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:43 PM   #17949
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Originally Posted by AJ View Post
True, but advertisers are not going to pay networks for what is shown On-Demand because it does not show the same commercials that were shown during the original airing and often times, when those shows are watched, the commercials can be outdated...another thing the advertisers aren't paying for. It's the same reason why online viewing means jack shit to the advertisers as well. They want the exact same commercials shown during the original airings and those same ones shown in a timely fashion. And they actually want the commercials viewed, hence why a viewer doesn't count as a full viewer unless commercials are also viewed.
No, I get all that, but as a consumer, I don't give a fuck about any of it.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:51 PM   #17950
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Because he wanted to let Umaga know he was still there, even if he was talking to somebody else at the time.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:53 PM   #17951
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Loved it when Umaga chopped the shit out of Johnny Jeter of the Spirit Squad in some bar.

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UUUUUMAGA!
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:59 PM   #17952
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
No, I get all that, but as a consumer, I don't give a fuck about any of it.
Fair enough...but some would say that line of thinking hurts a lot of shows save for the ones that are pretty well established...it's also might be why we see more in-product advertising. These shows gotta pay the bills somehow.

And I don't think MMA has a lot to do with this. People have known the deal behind pro wrestling for awhile now...it's all scripted. If you weren't a fan of pro wrestling before hand, then you weren't going to watch anyway. The Attitude Era as we known it won't happen in today's climate as long as the WWE is concerned about keeping it's correct crop of advertisers and maintaining the image is has tried to portray for the better part of the last half decade.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:07 PM   #17953
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You don't think that Raw is pretty well-established? They've been on the air for something like 18 years. It's definitely not the consumer's fault that he doesn't want to see a bunch of advertisements for shit he doesn't care about.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:28 PM   #17954
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HHH: "Some people like Zack Ryder"
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:28 PM   #17955
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
You don't think that Raw is pretty well-established? They've been on the air for something like 18 years. It's definitely not the consumer's fault that he doesn't want to see a bunch of advertisements for shit he doesn't care about.
It was more a general statement than one directed specifically towards RAW. RAW is in no danger as far as ratings go and tends to be in the top 5 as far as weekly ratings go and is usurped only by a couple of shows and sports...

Interesting enough, sports have remained largely immune to a lot of issues presented by DVR and illegal downloading as people tend to watch those events live and don't like it delayed...even by a couple of minutes. That's part of the reason we're seeing so much more sports on cable...which might be another contributing reason for the difficultly of RAW gaining traction in their ratings...at least compared to the Attitude Era. The same issues are being seen by network shows...especially in the male 18-34 demographic.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #17956
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Originally Posted by Dat Fool Train View Post
Anyone complaining about TV-PG and thinking getting rid of that, and/or John Cena, will solve their problems is delusional and an idiot. Cursing and stupid sex/dog killing storylines does not make a wrestling show better. They're doing great right now and it will just take time for the ratings to pick up
Yeah, sorry, you're "delusional and an idiot!" Raw used to get twice the viewers it does now. And you're comparing the worst of the attitude era to the general product now.

They are doing "great," about half as "great" as they used to, so please shut the fuck up. Thx
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:55 PM   #17957
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I agree that it won't happen, bit not the reason in the slightest. Were people really watching a scripted show with strong storyline elements because real fighting wasn't as widely available? Seems retarded.
I guarantee you it has a big factor. It's why you'll never get those Attitude Fans who left back. Why would they watch a fake sport, when they have UFC/The Ultimate Fighter, which is real. The vast majority of Attitude Fans are now UFC/MMA fans and think Pro Wrestling is stupid now.
 
Old 07-20-2011, 04:55 PM   #17958
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:00 PM   #17959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haze FX View Post
I came into this thread expecting the boiler plate "get rid of pg/get rid of cena/bring back the attitude era" type responses...and oh joy, I wasn't disappointed.

The WWE has been moving along just fine for a while now. Give it time. I'm pretty sure that no show has had a ratings spike, like some of the people in here seemed to have been expecting.
Good for you. You expected to see the answer that makes the most sense. Why, you must be a psychic, one step ahead of the "IWC!"

But not really. Because if you were, you wouldn't be stupid enough to believe that this product is anything compared to what it used to be.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:01 PM   #17960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L L Cool G View Post
I guarantee you it has a big factor. It's why you'll never get those Attitude Fans who left back. Why would they watch a fake sport, when they have UFC/The Ultimate Fighter, which is real. The vast majority of Attitude Fans are now UFC/MMA fans and think Pro Wrestling is stupid now.
Did you run around polling millions of people? Shut up?

Seriously, to elaborate, WWE had to fuck up/lose steam in the first place for people to even migrate to MMA. It didn't come out in the past couple of years.
Last edited by Rock Bottom; 07-20-2011 at 05:28 PM.
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