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Old 07-31-2011, 11:37 PM   #81
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I call referee.
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:13 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincharismark View Post
Yeah, I have, but I don't try to state my knowledge on wrestling as a fact. Basically, the info I've heard from the wrestlers themselves is what I use when discussing topics. Often here, ppl think they know more than actual wrestling insiders, which is laughable to me. Especially when saying something seems "legitimate" or in kayfabe. Personally, it's serves as an irritation to me....
See, I view 'kayfabe' as the plane in which everything in wrestling is to be accepted as 'real'. If someone has a kayfabe strategy, it may be something along the lines of 'my opponent injured his knee in a match last week, so I will gear my offense towards that injured knee'. That same person's REAL motivation would be more along the lines of 'I would like to have an entertaining match with my opponent tonight, and I hope we hit all of our spots'.

All of my references in this thread to Ziggler's 'strategy' in matches were based on the kayfabe version that I have just explained here. I wouldn't ever claim to know how much of any of it was ACTUALLY planned step-by-step or whatever, though.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:46 AM   #83
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Has someone torn into captaincharismark for suggesting that it means nothing that the WWE gave Dolph Ziggler the World Heavyweight Title -- even if only for five minutes. Do you really think the WWE would give a guy they didn't think was World Champion material the World Championship? To me, it says "You know what, kid -- you're so fucking good, we're going to give you this now -- but you'll have a proper run someday."
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:00 AM   #84
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Also, Vickie with Dolph is a face turn in the bank. Random thought.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:47 AM   #85
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IMO Dolph Ziggler is the best wrestler in the WWE right now. Better than Christian, better than Bryan, and yes even better than Punk. If he can bring his character anywhere close to matching his in ring ability, he will be legendary.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:49 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Bottom View Post
Also, Vickie with Dolph is a face turn in the bank. Random thought.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:51 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Has someone torn into captaincharismark for suggesting that it means nothing that the WWE gave Dolph Ziggler the World Heavyweight Title -- even if only for five minutes. Do you really think the WWE would give a guy they didn't think was World Champion material the World Championship? To me, it says "You know what, kid -- you're so fucking good, we're going to give you this now -- but you'll have a proper run someday."
I mentioned it.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:27 PM   #88
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Bumping this guy since it has three pages and I don't want to litter (ANY MORE THAN I ALREADY HAVE)

There have been a few stories talking about DZ receiving praise backstage for his efforts. I really agree with them. He really looks like he's going to be ready relatively soon. Since he has the heat magnet Vickie Guerrero in his corner, not only will this continue to benefit him heat-wise, but if he were to turn on her (somewhere down the road) it would immediately get him over. He has plenty of time, too. Really think Ziggler is going to be a mega star in the company.

I think he's been booked very well, his promos have drastically improved (not that they were ever that bad), and people are taking the guy seriously. He still carries himself like a classic heel, but I think a pattern has been established and fans are not going to expect him to be a loser. This is a sweet spot.

So far, I'm pretty happy with Ziggler working his way up in a way that makes sense. I hope they continue what they're doing, letting him grow without pulling the trigger on just tossing him out into the main event. I also hope that they don't try to schedule this guy around the next MITB. Just let him happen.

The US title looks pretty good right now.

That being said, what would you guys do with Ziggler in the next few months?
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:30 PM   #89
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Also:
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:54 PM   #90
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Ziggler is definitely in my FAVE FIVE right now. He's been on fire for a very long time.

I'm enjoying his mic work a lot too. I like the little sly digs he throws in like when he confronted Jackman.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:57 AM   #91
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Ziggler is going to be a guy one day, no doubt about it in my mind. You hear nothing about the attitude problems that keep guys like John Morrison down. He plays the dick-weed heel so well, and I find myself literally marking out for some of his random Twitter posts. He's great at making guys look good, too, which is always a great asset to have.

I loved the dude when he was on NXT. Probably my favourite Pro there ever, actually. The way he's just get on the live mic and look for whatever reason he could to chew out the babyface rookies. "Did you just drop the American flag?!? Communist!"

I'm not sure how the dude is progressing on the mic, but if he gets to that level where he's a good mic worker, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't want this guy at the top of your card.

Also, I love it that the last two times Ziggler has won a championship, he's shouted out "THIS IS MINE FOREVER!!!!!!"
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:00 AM   #92
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I truly think Ziggler "gets it," too. He works against the internet, trying to antagonise them more than anything, sticking to his heel role; but he manages to do so in an entertaining way.

Plus, for a guy that is kayfabe billed as someone that would have been accepted into the Cruiserweight Division when it was around, I don't find myself thinking of Ziggler as a "small guy." He carries himself in a small guy way the same that Shawn Michaels. Not trying to say that Ziggler is as good as HBK, or that he has to be, but just that for a guy who technically doesn't have size on his side -- it doesn't really seem like it matters shit-all.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:02 AM   #93
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At about the 41 second mark...

For a casual fan, it would have been so satisfying to see Ziggler lose the belt mere minutes later. Glorious.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:26 AM   #94
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I hope they keep him away from a MitB cash-in Title win. Pretty tired on them "making" guys with the briefcase. It'd be nice to see them "make" someone new/young without it.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:05 AM   #95
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Dolph is one of the only reasons I tune in nowadays. I had hoped he would win the tag belts, as I think having two different titles could have really been good for his character.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:07 PM   #96
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Dolph Ziggler is awesome. Plain and simple. He is easily one of my favorite wrestlers these days. He has the look. He has the charisma. He has the skills. If he continues to grow and improve, he will be in the main event picture for sure, and I can't wait.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:27 PM   #97
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I asked him something on Archer and he replied to me on twitter, so he's good in my book.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:33 PM   #98
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His mic work is getting good now too.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:58 PM   #99
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I agree with most of what's said, especially the quotation marks around "making," because of the fact that it has not worked for everyone so far. If the guy's getting there on his own, don't follow a risky formula. Then again, Ziggler doesn't strike me as the kind of dude that would fail to benefit from a briefcase push. But I feel that you can only have so many briefcase winners before the commodity wears off.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:02 PM   #100
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I don't really think there's anything wrong with becoming a champion via MitB cash-in.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:14 AM   #101
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I don't think so either, Thrilla, especially considering the ice has already been broken with Ziggler, and he is technically a former World Heavyweight Champion. That being said, I think Ziggler might be "too big" for a Money in the Bank briefcase right now. He's so much a sure thing, I don't think he'll need to be elevated via MITB next July.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:48 PM   #102
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But will there be anyone else ready for the case around that time? Edge never needed it, nor did CM Punk need it twice, but sometimes it's the best idea.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:32 PM   #103
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Edge was always going to win the briefcase first time around (although I was hoping for a Jericho win, silly me). CM Punk was the logical choice to win each year he did, too. That being said, I wouldn't complain about Dolph Ziggler winning the briefcase. The dude could already be World Heavyweight Champion by then, or something, is all I'm saying.

Personally, I'd like to see Swagger with the briefcase again. As for first time winners? Wade Barrett would make a tremendous pick for a heel MITB winner. Then you've also got Cody Rhodes on the rise, and even Christian would be great as a wormy MITB winner next year.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:09 AM   #104
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How do you figured that Edge was 'always going to win'? I don't recall that period crystal clearly, but I do remember thinking that there were a few potential winners in that match.

Christian would be perfect for the case next year, and an even better candidate to lose his shot, if they were planning on keeping him a heel.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:10 AM   #105
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Also, Punk wasn't the clear cut either time. The first time was a shock, really. I thought he'd end up with the ECW title. The second time, I thought he'd be the first to lose.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:38 PM   #106
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I'm not totally against MITB, like that matters, but I kinda hope Zigg isn't the kind of guy to win the case and then lose. It'd set him back some, I think. Unless, somehow, Swagger uses it to start some shit, saying he didn't screw up his shot with MITB, resulting in some kinda face push for Zigg. I don't really care if he's a face or heel honestly, but it wouldn't be a bad way to go, so I guess I'll just remain neutral. He'll still be wrestling either way, doesn't look like an easy guy to hold back.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:56 PM   #107
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Can't think of the last time someone has wrestled in more than one match (not including Royal Rumble) Since Triple H/Orton did it with the Title Changes.
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #108
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And for the record, I DO listen to Dolph's theme every day I go to work. Gets me in a good mood.
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:36 PM   #109
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Nah, keep Dolph away from MitB. You want to make him huge, keep pushing the Miz how he's being pushed. Have him win the title. The Miz is awesome, and the fans will ultimately turn him face. So, when he wins the belt, have it built up like the new administration is going to make The Miz the face of the WWE. Instead, the night after, when he's doing his thing, have Dolph beat the hell out of him, and basically become the corporate poster boy against the "rebel" esque Miz.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:28 PM   #110
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....what?
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:11 PM   #111
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Quote:
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How do you figured that Edge was 'always going to win'? I don't recall that period crystal clearly, but I do remember thinking that there were a few potential winners in that match.

Christian would be perfect for the case next year, and an even better candidate to lose his shot, if they were planning on keeping him a heel.
I'm pretty sure everyone was picking Edge to win the briefcase in the first match. Edge still had a perfect Mania track record at that point in time, and he was clearly the guy that they were giving upwards momentum to.

I called Punk both years using a process of elimination. It seemed like Jeff Hardy might have had a shot in the first, but he got suspended and Punk seemed like a fine choice. Chris Jericho was already a main event dude, and had been sort of lost at that point in time; Mr. Kennedy had won it the previous year and botched his first run; Shelton Benjamin never won the things; Carlito and John Morrison were both pretty random additions to the match, with Morrison being in the tag team scene at the time. MVP was the only other dude with a really good shot at being made with the match, but Matt Hardy was slated to return and feud with MVP -- so it made perfect sense for Matt to cost MVP the match, which is exactly what happened.

The following year, CM Punk was in there with Finlay, Kane and Mark Henry -- who were all veteran presences to keep the match flowing (and added power to the match, in the case of Kane and Henry). MVP had cooled off a lot more than he had been the previous year, and Shelton Benjamin was still Shelton Benjamin. A lot of people thought Christian had a chance, but he had just returned to the WWE from TNA -- there was no way Vince was going to shoot him straight to the moon.

Jack Swagger winning the next year was an absolute shocker to me, though -- I'll say that much. Prior to the show, anyway. Although, the moment Swagger came out you could tell he was winning the match. Weird.
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:14 PM   #112
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The way this thread had gone has really made me want to see Ziggler win some sort of Money in the Bank briefcase at WrestleMania (perhaps a 20-Man Battle Royal featuring "name" guys like Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry, Sheamus, Swagger, Wade Barrett, etc.) and then cash in his title shot that night against a victorious Daniel Bryan.

Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan (getting his rematch) vs. Randy Orton (also getting his rematch) at Extreme Rules would be awesome, and you know this. Then, Orton can get drafted back to RAW, and Bryan can beat the SmackDown! drafted Jack Swagger en route to facing Ziggler one-on-one.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:04 AM   #113
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I'm all for any scenario that would give me more Ziggler/Bryan matches.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:29 AM   #114
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I truthfully feel that they could be "the guys" on SmackDown!. Orton and Sheamus can go back to RAW, where they love to stack the shows, and Ziggler/Bryan can tear it up on the blue brand for a few months.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:48 AM   #115
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Ziggler is the goods.

Just thought I'd say/reiterate that.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:38 PM   #116
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Methinks that Ziggles drops the strap to Mason Ryan at Survivor Series, and starts his main event ascent soon after. Don't see him carrying the US title into a big feud ala Rhodes on SD (he's held it since June, after all, and there's midcard guys who could use the strap more than Ziggler if he moves on to bigger and better things). Would love if he started feuding with Big Show once he gets done with Henry...Show is still technically a Raw wrestler, and would be a great face to put Ziggler over (via heelish tactics) and make him legit.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:20 AM   #117
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Personally, I don't think Ziggler should drop the US Title to Mason Ryan. If I had to have Ziggler drop the belt to someone, I would choose Brodus Clay. Have Vickie Guerrero sign on Clay as muscle for Ziggler/Swagger, and when Clay helps Ziggler beat Ryan, he's all "Now I want a shot."

Clay has just got more charisma and is in a better position to be a monster face, in my opinion.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:59 AM   #118
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Triple Crown Champion?
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:10 AM   #119
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I don't think the WWE officially recognises Ziggler as a World Tag Team Champion, despite him defending the belts under the Freebird rule.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:19 AM   #120
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http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehisto...agteam/2448432

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwe.com
After winning the World Tag Team Championship at Taboo Tuesday 2005, it seemed the team of Kane & Big Show was unstoppable. However, on RAW the night after WrestleMania 22, that theory was nullified when Spirit Squad members Kenny & Mikey defeated the monstrous pair to become World Tag Team Champions.

With the referee inadvertently knocked out, the other three members of the Spirit Squad stepped in to help. With Kane lying on the arena floor, the brash quintet lifted up Big Show for a massive flapjack slam. Kenny then climbed the top rope, and after hitting a breathtaking Guillotine Legdrop, he covered Big Show to get the three count and the gold.
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